4 ms·

You are calling for the invasion of your own country? Surely you realize that is a very fringe view.

cmrdporcupine 2y ago
There is such an echo chamber among the Albertan far right that they fail to see exactly what a fringe community they are. Unfortunately they have deep pockets because of funding from the US.
- nullorempty 2y ago
  not from alberta.
  - cmrdporcupine 2y ago
    Well, I am (originally). And I recognize the verbiage from there even when it's spoken elsewhere.
amanwithnoplan 2y ago
https://angusreid.org/trump-carney-51st-state-canada-usa/ https://angusreid.org/trump-carney-51st-state-canada-usa/ ~10% support overall. However, that's 21% of Conservative voters and 1-3% everyone else. So it's beyond fringe for everyone else, but maybe not as much for Conservatives.
- cwillu 2y ago
  1-3% is lizardman constant territory, yeah.
  - cwillu 2y ago
    https://brainlenses.substack.com/p/lizardmans-constant https://brainlenses.substack.com/p/lizardmans-constant
- nullorempty 2y ago
  didn't hear about this poll. probably cooked.
  - amanwithnoplan 2y ago
    If you don't like Angus Reid (from last week), here are Ipsos from January and Leger from December. https://www.ipsos.com/en-ca/43-percent-canadians-would-vote-be-american-if-citizenship-and-conversion-assets-usd-guaranteed https://www.ipsos.com/en-ca/43-percent-canadians-would-vote-... https://leger360.com/canada-51st-state/ https://leger360.com/canada-51st-state/ Note that despite the headline, The Ipsos poll also says 80% polled would never vote for Canada to become part of the United States, while the Leger poll says 82% would not like Canada to become the 51st state. These are 3 of the standard pollsters that regularly get commissioned by TV and newspaper to do polls for them, and I have no reason to suspect that the polls are "cooked". 338 rates Angus Reid as B+, Ipsos as A, and Leger as A+. https://338canada.com/pollster-ratings.htm https://338canada.com/pollster-ratings.htm
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
There are lots of Canadians who have felt under attack from within their own country. The ruling regimes of Canada have over time implemented certain policies and ideological values that are a deviation from what was in place before. Not everyone shares those new values, and they feel like the real principles and political culture of Canada has been broken. They’re rather have change, and they see that in America’s rejection of progressive politics. What I’m saying is, to them, it’s not an invasion but a return to normal from a different kind of invasion. I don’t know if it is fringe or not - just explaining the perspective.
- cmrdporcupine 2y ago
  Culturally "left" wing and especially socially liberal policies are incredibly popular in Canada, enough so that there's enough of a block of an electorate that holds those opinions that two whole political parties can exist along the continuum and still one manages to hold majority power. And our Conservatives have suffered electorally drastically when they've strayed too far into culture wars and socially conservative territory. If they're sick of being out of power, they should properly learn that lesson. TLDR the "new values" you speak about are actually incredibly mainstream and not any kind of imposition from some radical regime. Likewise with environmental issues. The Albertan oil industry is very vocal, and very powerful, but still the majority has strong concern about climate change enough that the plurality of voters are very much in favour of regulation of that sector -- even in Alberta -- much to the chagrin of the ruling political "regime" there.
  - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
    > Culturally "left" wing and especially socially liberal policies are incredibly popular in Canada I can see that being true for certain policies and topics. But what about at a more basic level? What do you think of Canada’s shift towards restricting or punishing speech on controversial topics, and giving agencies that regulatory power? Or the tactic of using the financial system to punish protesters? Or significantly reducing firearm rights? To me these seem like not just everyday policy changes but a rethink of basic Canadian law, and it does seem radical relative to what Canada was like not too long ago. I can see why many Canadians who support a more freedom oriented Canada would want to reject the new Canadian regimes or support being part of America, because it would give them back rights or culture or whatever they thought they had. PS: it sounds like you live in Canada but are more progressive in your politics. I would be curious to have your opinion from that perspective but also hear what you think the strongest argument for the other side might be.
nullorempty 2y ago
Invasion? nope, totally voluntarily.

There is such an echo chamber among the Albertan far right that they fail to see exactly what a fringe community they are. Unfortunately they have deep pockets because of funding from the US.

nullorempty 2y ago
not from alberta.
- cmrdporcupine 2y ago
  Well, I am (originally). And I recognize the verbiage from there even when it's spoken elsewhere.

amanwithnoplan 2y ago

https://angusreid.org/trump-carney-51st-state-canada-usa/ https://angusreid.org/trump-carney-51st-state-canada-usa/ ~10% support overall. However, that's 21% of Conservative voters and 1-3% everyone else. So it's beyond fringe for everyone else, but maybe not as much for Conservatives.

cwillu 2y ago
1-3% is lizardman constant territory, yeah.
- cwillu 2y ago
  https://brainlenses.substack.com/p/lizardmans-constant https://brainlenses.substack.com/p/lizardmans-constant
nullorempty 2y ago
didn't hear about this poll. probably cooked.
- amanwithnoplan 2y ago
  If you don't like Angus Reid (from last week), here are Ipsos from January and Leger from December. https://www.ipsos.com/en-ca/43-percent-canadians-would-vote-be-american-if-citizenship-and-conversion-assets-usd-guaranteed https://www.ipsos.com/en-ca/43-percent-canadians-would-vote-... https://leger360.com/canada-51st-state/ https://leger360.com/canada-51st-state/ Note that despite the headline, The Ipsos poll also says 80% polled would never vote for Canada to become part of the United States, while the Leger poll says 82% would not like Canada to become the 51st state. These are 3 of the standard pollsters that regularly get commissioned by TV and newspaper to do polls for them, and I have no reason to suspect that the polls are "cooked". 338 rates Angus Reid as B+, Ipsos as A, and Leger as A+. https://338canada.com/pollster-ratings.htm https://338canada.com/pollster-ratings.htm

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago

There are lots of Canadians who have felt under attack from within their own country. The ruling regimes of Canada have over time implemented certain policies and ideological values that are a deviation from what was in place before. Not everyone shares those new values, and they feel like the real principles and political culture of Canada has been broken. They’re rather have change, and they see that in America’s rejection of progressive politics. What I’m saying is, to them, it’s not an invasion but a return to normal from a different kind of invasion. I don’t know if it is fringe or not - just explaining the perspective.

cmrdporcupine 2y ago
Culturally "left" wing and especially socially liberal policies are incredibly popular in Canada, enough so that there's enough of a block of an electorate that holds those opinions that two whole political parties can exist along the continuum and still one manages to hold majority power. And our Conservatives have suffered electorally drastically when they've strayed too far into culture wars and socially conservative territory. If they're sick of being out of power, they should properly learn that lesson. TLDR the "new values" you speak about are actually incredibly mainstream and not any kind of imposition from some radical regime. Likewise with environmental issues. The Albertan oil industry is very vocal, and very powerful, but still the majority has strong concern about climate change enough that the plurality of voters are very much in favour of regulation of that sector -- even in Alberta -- much to the chagrin of the ruling political "regime" there.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  > Culturally "left" wing and especially socially liberal policies are incredibly popular in Canada I can see that being true for certain policies and topics. But what about at a more basic level? What do you think of Canada’s shift towards restricting or punishing speech on controversial topics, and giving agencies that regulatory power? Or the tactic of using the financial system to punish protesters? Or significantly reducing firearm rights? To me these seem like not just everyday policy changes but a rethink of basic Canadian law, and it does seem radical relative to what Canada was like not too long ago. I can see why many Canadians who support a more freedom oriented Canada would want to reject the new Canadian regimes or support being part of America, because it would give them back rights or culture or whatever they thought they had. PS: it sounds like you live in Canada but are more progressive in your politics. I would be curious to have your opinion from that perspective but also hear what you think the strongest argument for the other side might be.

nullorempty 2y ago

Invasion? nope, totally voluntarily.