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Restricting protest like this may work short term, but long term it's a bad play even for the powers that be. If legitimate avenues of resistance are shut off a

by ctkhn 2y ago

Restricting protest like this may work short term, but long term it's a bad play even for the powers that be. If legitimate avenues of resistance are shut off and made as legally risky as more extreme acts, people will just jump to the more extreme. I'm worried that the US is going into something like the years of lead that's just going to make daily life more dangerous for everyone :(

Tostino 2y ago
Right...not that I'm advocating for it, but explosives placed on a pipeline are less obvious to find than a protest. I agree keeping peaceful avenues for resistance open is a good idea.
pelagicAustral 2y ago
> legitimate avenues of resistance... >> Defamation, trespass, nuisance, civil conspiracy and other acts >> Daily harassment and disruptions caused by the protesters It truly doesn't sound like any of these acts are lawful. Just the same as the lunatic radicals from Just Stop Oil, they are bringing no one into their team, au contraire, they are driving people right into the other team by causing major disruption in the layman's daily life, and ZERO effect on their imaginary enemies.
- MSFT_Edging 2y ago
  > It truly doesn't sound like any of these acts are lawful. They should have known to stay within the Free Speech Zone[1]. "The zone, a cage in the middle of nowhere, had little effect because nobody of any importance saw them." [1]https://arresteddevelopment.fandom.com/wiki/Free_speech_zone https://arresteddevelopment.fandom.com/wiki/Free_speech_zone
  - sidewndr46 2y ago
    Why are you linking to a wiki about some sort of TV show? Free speech zones are a real thing in the US
    - collingreen 2y ago
      It's a sarcastic reference to a satire. The point they are making is that politely protesting in a way that doesn't have any impact on anything is ineffective and the abusers with power know this which is why they always clutch their pearls and try to prevent, undermine, or disparage anything else. Protest is an interesting thing. Sometimes you can just raise awareness through the approved, legal methods but sometimes you live in a society where the laws protect evil actions and punish anyone trying to change that. Obviously there will never be agreement from everyone about which situation calls for which actions.
SpicyLemonZest 2y ago
The pipeline company claimed (https://ccrjustice.org/sites/default/files/attach/2017/12/1%20complaint.pdf https://ccrjustice.org/sites/default/files/attach/2017/12/1%...), and apparently convinced a jury, that the protest movement was largely created by Greenpeace and associated groups spreading false information about their project.
aaron695 2y ago
[dead]
potato3732842 2y ago
>I'm worried that the US is going into something like the years of lead that's just going to make daily life more dangerous for everyone :( A serious reduction in the government's ability to enforce it's monopoly on violence would go a long way toward reducing wrong in the world (and it would also motivate the .gov to use its monopoly on violence better but that's beside the point). Organizations specifically, but individuals too, think to much in terms of legal and illegal and not enough in terms of right and wrong. If individuals and entities that wrong people had to pay up for their own enforcement and protection rather than just leeching on the taxpayer funded jackboots in blue to do it all (after a bunch of expensive court and lawyer process) they would quickly find that a lot of the wronging they do doesn't actually make economic sense. Tons of business models that amount to wronging people too little for them to sue you and too vaguely for a class action or swindling people big-time and then paying your way through the lawsuits to make it stick would evaporate overnight if they had to pay for their own enforcement and security. However, keep in mind that nothing is free. A lot of little people would be on the receiving end of violence too, not just exploitive megacorps.

by ctkhn 2y ago

Tostino 2y ago

Right...not that I'm advocating for it, but explosives placed on a pipeline are less obvious to find than a protest. I agree keeping peaceful avenues for resistance open is a good idea.

pelagicAustral 2y ago

> legitimate avenues of resistance... >> Defamation, trespass, nuisance, civil conspiracy and other acts >> Daily harassment and disruptions caused by the protesters It truly doesn't sound like any of these acts are lawful. Just the same as the lunatic radicals from Just Stop Oil, they are bringing no one into their team, au contraire, they are driving people right into the other team by causing major disruption in the layman's daily life, and ZERO effect on their imaginary enemies.

MSFT_Edging 2y ago
> It truly doesn't sound like any of these acts are lawful. They should have known to stay within the Free Speech Zone[1]. "The zone, a cage in the middle of nowhere, had little effect because nobody of any importance saw them." [1]https://arresteddevelopment.fandom.com/wiki/Free_speech_zone https://arresteddevelopment.fandom.com/wiki/Free_speech_zone
- sidewndr46 2y ago
  Why are you linking to a wiki about some sort of TV show? Free speech zones are a real thing in the US
  - collingreen 2y ago
    It's a sarcastic reference to a satire. The point they are making is that politely protesting in a way that doesn't have any impact on anything is ineffective and the abusers with power know this which is why they always clutch their pearls and try to prevent, undermine, or disparage anything else. Protest is an interesting thing. Sometimes you can just raise awareness through the approved, legal methods but sometimes you live in a society where the laws protect evil actions and punish anyone trying to change that. Obviously there will never be agreement from everyone about which situation calls for which actions.

SpicyLemonZest 2y ago

The pipeline company claimed (https://ccrjustice.org/sites/default/files/attach/2017/12/1%20complaint.pdf https://ccrjustice.org/sites/default/files/attach/2017/12/1%...), and apparently convinced a jury, that the protest movement was largely created by Greenpeace and associated groups spreading false information about their project.

aaron695 2y ago

[dead]

potato3732842 2y ago

>I'm worried that the US is going into something like the years of lead that's just going to make daily life more dangerous for everyone :( A serious reduction in the government's ability to enforce it's monopoly on violence would go a long way toward reducing wrong in the world (and it would also motivate the .gov to use its monopoly on violence better but that's beside the point). Organizations specifically, but individuals too, think to much in terms of legal and illegal and not enough in terms of right and wrong. If individuals and entities that wrong people had to pay up for their own enforcement and protection rather than just leeching on the taxpayer funded jackboots in blue to do it all (after a bunch of expensive court and lawyer process) they would quickly find that a lot of the wronging they do doesn't actually make economic sense. Tons of business models that amount to wronging people too little for them to sue you and too vaguely for a class action or swindling people big-time and then paying your way through the lawsuits to make it stick would evaporate overnight if they had to pay for their own enforcement and security. However, keep in mind that nothing is free. A lot of little people would be on the receiving end of violence too, not just exploitive megacorps.