6 ms·

Tourist in US chained 'like Hannibal Lecter'

185 points by pera 2y ago

ck2 2y ago
The point is obviously to terrorize people and create fear. So the question is when will the US be sanctioned for this behavior? If cannot happen legally then financially? Are tourists really going to risk coming here because this is not the first story and it is only going to get worse. Imagine by the Olympics in 2028 - are people REALLY willing to visit here and being subjected to this incredible risk? Can't say "you'll be fine" because just any one encouter with law enforcement on a power-trip and you'll have no rights to how you are treated and how long you are disappeared. They are building holding facilities at military bases all over the country and there will be motivation to fill them up. There will be no lawyer access, no reporter access. You'll just disappear until they decide what to do with you.
- croes 2y ago
  Tourism will decline. Will be interesting to see how Trump blames that on Biden or left wingers.
- ttyprintk 2y ago
  I predict strong Federal resistance to the Los Angeles Olympics taking place without individual incentives. The President making surprise appearances in dressing rooms for gender inspection, etc. Likewise, if the 2028 election is cancelled, I expect the only nations participating will be Russia and a newly-minted Gazan resort team.
  - ck2 2y ago
    He owns a massive resort/hotel near the Olympics and will want to fill that up and then bring himself to bill taxpayers millions for secret service, etc. So the event will happen but I simply cannot believe I find myself hoping for a worldwide boycott, it's insanity. But why would they cancel the election if they "know those vote counting computers" and no-one is going to stop them from putting on a pretend election like Russia does? People can protest all they want, once they run out of migrants to fill the detention centers they will just move onto protesters since no-one could stop them the first time around.
    - dathinab 2y ago
      > run out of migrants they won't run out for a while. Not only are there a lot of immigrants in the US which they can arbitrary Label as illegal even if not, they are also already are trying to - undo citizenship granted in the past, starting with people not born in the US, but there is clear intend to go further then that. - classify native Americans as not US citizens
  - SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
    > if the 2028 election is cancelled Highly unlikely. For the simple reason that countries such as Russia and Türkiye still have elections. Not that USA elections have ever been perfectly representative. But expect them to be less so. And, it might go like this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yren8mxp8o https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yren8mxp8o
  - dathinab 2y ago
    realistically speaking Hitler Germany had an Olympic after they discriminated against yew but before it genocide was publically known and a lot of countries still took part in it it ended up being grate propaganda for Hitler Germany with a lot of drugged German athletes winning prices, and a lot of make pretend that things aren't as bad as they are I can't say in which state the US will be by 2028, but if not too dissimilar from today I wouldn't expect things to end up very different. Through in the current state dragging out until 2028 is ... not very likely. So we will see.
- nashashmi 2y ago
  The checks and balance system has been compromised a little bit. Hope has dropped on congress to check the executive. SCOTUS should be checking next, but people believe they cannot be relied on because they are too conservative. Except CJ Roberts is now concerned about the executive branch assault on justice side. His stance is changing due to the need for C&B.
- ChoGGi 2y ago
  ICE detainees are big business, at least for the private companies paid to keep them locked up. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/19/canadian-detained-us-immigration-jasmine-mooney https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/19/canadian-det...
- adolph 2y ago
  > The point is obviously to terrorize people and create fear. This is a perfectly ambiguous point. On the one hand is the practice, which may or may not be novel. On the other is the story, which may or may not be clickbait intended as outrage-engagement.
  - hobs 2y ago
    On the other hand there's the president, whose said he's going to go on a mass deportation spree and treating anyone he doesn't like as illegal, but yeah who knows if this is just business as usual!?
  - ck2 2y ago
    Yes your kind of hand waiving is EXACTLY what went down in the 1930s in Germany, everyone was "don't get carried away, this is fine/exaggerated". Now it's just with smartphones. Realize this is not only not the first story but there's another one pending on the front pages of many news sites. It has Stephen Miller written all over it, it's EXACTLY how he works. Stop giving them a pass on this, it's only going to get worse and worse.
    - adolph 2y ago
      You seem certain about this but I don’t know how you came at such certainty.
      - ck2 2y ago
        You need real examples? You know those "gang members" that were kidnapped to Venezuela torture prison without any due process? And everyone was "fine" with it because hey they said they were "gang members" Guess what? It's already been discovered one of them is just a professional soccer player with no gang affiliations. But he's still there in prison with shaved head and will never be seen again because there's no balance of power to stop it, courts are ignored daily. That university protestor they disappeared? As soon as a New York court ruled he has to get a hearing, they moved him out of the district to the south. Now remember this is only eight weeks into it and there are TWO HUNDREDS more to go and imagine that atrocity multiplying weekly. First thing Hitler did when he was given power without their congress (parliament, Enabling Act) was remove the judges opposing him. Sound familiar?
- mschuster91 2y ago
  > There will be no lawyer access, no reporter access. At least foreigners have their consulates/embassies and it's wise for every foreigner being in the US to have a daily check-in with someone who can contact the country of origin to raise alarm.
firefax 2y ago
They'll terrorize someone who does the chores typical of a houseguest (doing one's own bedding, taking part in the chore rotation), but they never seem to give this treatment to tech bro "digital nomads" who enter on tourist visas in impoverished countries like Thailand or Vietnam and do remote work in the exact same fields that could enrich the populace. Nobody was going to do that housework except the household, wheras someone coding from a cafe in Bangkok is arguably absolutely stealing local jobs.
- HPsquared 2y ago
  The "digital nomad" is typically employed, pays taxes etc in their home country. Locals don't have access to those jobs. They are accepted because they are economically just like tourists: they come and enjoy the ambience and spend their money, which comes from abroad.
- Traubenfuchs 2y ago
  How is me using my companies generous WFH rules and working from, say, Bangkok for a month a problem for Bangkok? How am I stealing a local job? What are you talking about? I am living there for a month, paying taxes for lodging, food, transport... If they'd crack down on digital nomads like me I simply will not come and they won't get any money from me. I don't need to be in Bangkok, if they decide to be hostile instead of friendly.
  - anal_reactor 2y ago
    > How is me using my companies generous WFH rules and working from, say, Bangkok for a month a problem for Bangkok? You price out locals from the housing market. The fact that you're not aware of this and you think that Thais should be eternally grateful for the generous gift of seeing your face proves how ignorant you are, Mr White Savior.
    - firefax 2y ago
      >You price out locals from the housing market. Thanks, I think people forget about the market distorting effects of people with a high wage taking an extended holiday, often staying in AirBnBs rather than licensed hotels/hostels and thus further distorting the rental market.
jl6 2y ago
We need to create a type of visa that has some kind of court-enforceable rights attached to it. Currently there seems to be no middle ground between citizen-with-full-rights and foreign-scum-with-no-rights. Travel for legitimate business and tourism just isn’t worth the risk right now.
- veidr 2y ago
  or just not go? ¯\_(ಠ_ಠ)_/¯
  - veidr 2y ago
    To be clear, I don't mean "fuck you if you don't like it", I mean literally nobody should go to the USA (I'm a citizen) unless it's absolutely necessary.
    - akie 2y ago
      I've been avoiding traveling to the US, and even doing stop-overs, at least since Trump first became president. You guys are a bit too enthusiastic about the whole police state / fascism thing, and have been ever since 9/11.
      - veidr 2y ago
        You're right to do so, but I think the urgency has changed. Since Bush and 9/11 we had some dubious, secret lists like the "no-fly list" — but we also had a bunch of other secret lists, too. The difference is now you get a Customs agent named CatFart69 and it's all up to him. That is hugely important, and differentiating, because until this current administration, the incompetence (or willful white supremacism / pro-wrestling hero-worship) was at least centralized. Now it is outsourced to the lowest common moron/incel functionary. Which is a truly fundamental difference. Do not come. If you truly must, take similar precautions as you would when visiting Iran or North Korea.
- boroboro4 2y ago
  There is one already and it’s called green card. It’s not like current administration cares about it.
mouse_ 2y ago
Doesn't this sort of thing happen pretty much constantly? Not that we shouldn't be talking about atrocities, but what changed?
ParetoOptimal 2y ago
The price of having good border security is the odd legal greencard holder is detained for weeks and... Oh wait I'm an actual human. This is disgraceful. The fear and punishment is the point though, I guess to prevent all but certain people from even visiting the US temporarily.
byroot 2y ago
Less extreme, but similar, a French researcher on his way to a conference was denied entry and his laptop and phone were searched and confiscated: > The source said the scientist in the space sector underwent a random check on > arrival, during which his work computer and personal phone were searched, and > messages referring to Donald Trump's administration's treatment of scientists > were found. Authorities told him they had found messages "that express hatred > towards Trump and can be qualified as terrorism," the source said. > His professional and personal equipment was confiscated and he was sent back > to Europe the following day. [0] https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2025/03/20/french-researcher-denied-entry-to-us-for-expressing-personal-opinion-on-trump-policies_6739346_4.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2025/03/20/f...
- Sharlin 2y ago
  Odd, I thought this administration was all about free speech. I guess there will be additional ESTA questions soon asking whether you have ever criticized Trump or Big Tech.
  - akie 2y ago
    For me, not for thee.
- veidr 2y ago
  Although less egregious at a glance, as a US citizen, I think that is pretty extreme and unprecedented in my lifetime (I'm 50) :-|
  - Sharlin 2y ago
    Similar things did happen after 9/11.
    - ty6853 2y ago
      And people were outraged, then it became status quo. Now getting fondled by the TSA is passively accepted and hardly anyone writes about it anymore.
peppers-ghost 2y ago
I can't imagine why anyone would read this and think it's a good idea to come to the US for any reason in this current climate. There's nothing here worth seeing if it means you're going to be tortured for the opportunity.
- 762236 2y ago
  This is how American immigration has always worked. I know others that experienced it under prior administrations. You have to ask why does the press only care about it now?
  - diggan 2y ago
    > You have to ask why does the press only care about it now? Does it matter? As someone who at points wanted to visit the US for various reasons, I've been watching the results with horror for decades at this point, how people are treated, so obviously it's a no-go country right now for large parts of the world population, even for tourism. As you say, it's nothing new, and regardless of motives for publishing articles like this, I'm glad more people are finally realizing what could happen if your dumb enough to go there.
  - peppers-ghost 2y ago
    I think the press cares about it because each aspect of it is getting worse. People coming into the country no longer have due process and can't see lawyers now.
    - 762236 2y ago
      This changed?
      - peppers-ghost 2y ago
        If you're a human and in the US physically you are guaranteed due process by the constitution. This is being trampled on by the powers that be.
perihelions 2y ago
Remarkable that it seems to be only white woman victims that reach HN's front page. Implicit cultural acknowledgement that brown men *belong* in cages, chained "like Hannibal Lecter", or whatever the hyperbole of the day is. For every shocking depravity involving a European tourist, there's a thousand other human stories some media circles will never acknowledge. Read testimonies from people who aren't born into the right ethnicity. (If you want content warnings about suicide attempts, this one has three different methods). https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/2025/02/25/guantanamo-trump-migrants-deportations-venezuela/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/2025/02/25/guanta... ("Three migrants describe Guantánamo detention") https://archive.is/KV3hr https://archive.is/KV3hr These people have families too. Countless stories on other sites of families pleading for the disappeared, pleading their innocence.
- peterlada 2y ago
  Yet, even those stories were missing from mainstream media. We are at a turning point and even these stories selected with racial bias help us to understand Trumpler's bullshit smokescreen of "deporting only the violent" undocumented immigrants. This at this point is a rouge department largely staffed with the worst of the racist xenophobic misanthropes.
- ty6853 2y ago
  Yep. I'm a white boy citizen and they've shackled and chained ( and strip searched) me before for funzies, no one gives a shit unless you're a well off European tourist or white lady. People think it's new, happened to me under Bidens administration.
- rpdillon 2y ago
  Yeah, there's definitely inequality in reporting, Wikipedia has an article called Missing White Woman Syndrome that I think is exactly the phenomenon you're discussing. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome > Missing white woman syndrome is a term used by some social scientists and media commentators to denote perceived disproportionate media coverage, especially on television, of missing-person cases toward white females as compared to males, or females of color. Supporters of the phenomenon posit that it encompasses supposed disproportionate media attention to females who are young, attractive, white, and upper middle class. Although the term was coined in the context of missing-person cases, it is sometimes used of coverage of other violent crimes. The phenomenon has been highlighted in the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, and other predominantly white countries, as well as South Africa.
neom 2y ago
I know a Canadian who was deported 3 weeks ago, got caught flying back and forth between SF and Vancouver. Same process, put in a holding cell, 17 hours later shackled and escorted to a air canada flight, DHS person waited at the front of the plane till the door was closed. Not sure the Americans can be much more explicit these days, they want their processes followed and they're not tolerating skirting them, Canadian, British or anyone.
- koolba 2y ago
  So the Canadien was deported for illegally being in the USA, got caught and deported, and then got caught again for illegally entering the USA again? Why would you not expect to be detained? The slap on the wrist was the first deportation.
  - neom 2y ago
    She flew into the states (I'm not sure what city she originated from), got taken into inspection, they pulled up her in and out records and asked why she had been going in and out once a month, who she was visiting, who her fiends are etc, and then presented her with her linkedin profile, said she is going down to the American company to work, and then deported her, she was given zero opportunity to provide explanation etc.
  - sevenf0ur 2y ago
    I'd expect the same treatment in any other country. If you break the law and get deported, they are not going to let you walk around freely anymore. Maybe she expected special treatment?
- nervousvarun 2y ago
  It's an obvious and egregious overreaction to the lack of enforcement we've seen here for decades now. The pendulum has certainly swung. Ostensibly too far. Not sure why it all has to be so dramatic. Would imagine most sensible people support enforcing immigration policy and would agree that this hasn't been done for a long time now but obviously "shackles" is ridiculous.
anthk 2y ago
This will hurt US tourism and economy (on top of tariffs) like crazy. In the end Trump won't be seriously attacked by their opposite political, radicalized left-leaning men, but their own ones watching the economy collapse down.
- EspadaV9 2y ago
  Can confirm. My son wanted to visit Texas (and other places) for his 10th birthday present, we've told him we're not welcome there, and trying to explain the US political situation to a kind under 10 is not easy. But there is no way I would want to put our family in any kind of situation like this, basically at the whim of the border person we happen to get.
steveBK123 2y ago
Very gross and speaks to Trumpers actual classist motivations rather than his populist rhetoric. She was traveling the US, getting free accommodations in exchange for house cleaning? Seemed she was here less than 90 days. How is this different than 1000s of companies that fly employees over from UK on for a few weeks on 90 day ESTAs ? "The ESTA allows only passive business activities (like attending meetings or conferences), and engaging in work could lead to visa revocation, deportation, and bans from future U.S. entry." In practice no company actually complies with this. If you bring an SWE over from London for 2 weeks and they write any code they are in technical violation right..
- 762236 2y ago
  This is standard behavior, nothing special to Trump. Interesting that you immediately think Trumpers, rather than that the government is always sadistic.
  - steveBK123 2y ago
    We can concede that the government is a big unwieldy machine where things slip through the cracks and mistakes get made. BUT.. One guy ran on doing this explicitly, and his administration gleefully posts deportation shame p*rn videos on social media. This isn't a "both sides are totally the same, nothing changed" thing.
    - 762236 2y ago
      This isn't falling through the cracks. It is what always happens to people accused of violating their visa terms.
  - stephen_g 2y ago
    There’s a clear and massive change in the number of people this is happening to since Trump started making executive orders though. The system was always evil, but Trump seems to have dialled it up 10x…
    - 2y ago
mystraline 2y ago
Yep, the feds will interpret ANY sort of money, goods, services, or other as a form of compensation. Same way amateur radio people can't take anything, even a can of soda, for radio operations. Or how private pilots can't get paid to take someone from 1 airport to the next. Or more recently, doing drone photography and selling said pictures. Does it happen? Sure. But I've seen the feds come down hard on people, including citizens, for even a whiff of 'commercial' anything. And well, I can't recommend anybody coming into the US, especially a non-native citizen. I wouldn't stay, but I don't have that latitude to move countries.
Aldipower 2y ago
Almost identical news today with a German 25 yo guy. He came back from a side-trip to Mexico and was cuffed at the border from Mexico to US. "The German government has responded with a warning to travelers to the USA in response to several Germans being placed in detention pending immigration upon entry in recent weeks." https://www-welt-de.translate.goog/politik/ausland/article255738472/USA-Deutscher-in-US-Abschiebehaft-Sie-wurden-sofort-aggressiv-als-sie-meinen-Pass-sahen.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en https://www-welt-de.translate.goog/politik/ausland/article25...
dathinab 2y ago
the systematic dehumanizing language the US has adopted recently is extremely worrisome if you go through history nearly any case where a government did systematically adopt dehumanizing language ended up in a lot of violence and not seldom lynchings and/or genocide
neonate 2y ago
https://archive.md/VOwDb https://archive.md/VOwDb
kzz102 2y ago
I use to read about the power border agents have over foreigners and was amazed at how easily they can destroy me. The only reason this hasn't happened seems to be that they're mostly decent, professional people. And now that's gone.
- peppers-ghost 2y ago
  It's luck of the draw with those guys. The job attracts people with nationalistic/fascist mindsets and if you look a certain way you can expect to be treated worse than others.
  - anthony_d 2y ago
    I wouldn’t describe them as nationalistic or fascist. There’s no need to bring in any sort of political view… the problem is when little people get a little power. It can get ugly.
    - peppers-ghost 2y ago
      Have you talked with many of them? I've met some that want laws changed so they can shoot migrants on sight.
      - anthony_d 2y ago
        Did they tell you that?
        peppers-ghost 2y ago
        Yes. It's not an uncommon view. Have you seen any of the leaks from the facebook group a bunch of those guys were on?
- anthony_d 2y ago
  It’s the same people. There’s always been an element of luck. I travel a lot and I’ve interacted with a lot of border agents. I’d say luck is important for a lot of countries. I’ve had great experiences flying in US, Egypt, UK and Turkey I’ve also had terrible experiences with US, and Iceland. Most other places have been somewhere in between.
Sharlin 2y ago
According to a new advisory our Foreign Ministry just published, ESTA and visa rules have been changed to mandate that the gender you enter be your assigned-at-birth one. If your current travel documents do not match that, well, tough luck, it's going to be a crapshoot whether you'll be let in.
chris_wot 2y ago
America, you are in so much trouble. I care only so much, and have been trying, rather unsuccessfully, to not care. However, it appears your President (both of them, the elected one, and the billionaire non-elected one) wants to directly interfere with our health care system and our Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme. We in Australia have a small population compared to yours. We have a fantastic (albeit imperfect) public health care system which we have, as a country, enthusiastically and democratically embraced. Please, if you as a country do desire, by all means fuck up your own countrymen with a draconian private health care system which causes medical bankruptcy, but leave us the fuck alone. We aren’t causing you any harm and we aren’t interfering with your democracy. We have enthusiastically helped you fight your wars and signed all sorts of friendly agreements. We aren’t net drug smugglers to the U.S. By and large, we are as a nation watching America destroy itself and we want nothing to do with it. We aren’t even going to retaliate with corresponding tariffs. Americans question our sometimes spotty privacy legislation. Quite right. But given your Executive Branch doesn’t believe in the rule of law anymore, you can’t even credibly criticise our more lax separation of powers (we are a Common Law country) as all of that has now gone out the window. Good luck, America! You are going to need it.
piokoch 2y ago
[flagged]
sixothree 2y ago
Cruelty is the point.
vuggamie 2y ago
These threads sure drop off the front page fast. It's almost like someone doesn't want to talk about authoritarianism.
- BonoboIO 2y ago
  I only see them via 24h top via Algolia
wuschel 2y ago
@dang - why is this flagged? There is a considerable group of users outside of the U.S.A. that is very interested in learning and discussing about the current developments when it comes to this kind of treatment of foreigners in the U.S.A. These kind of threads can be very problematic to moderate and require attention in regard the nature of the discussion. However, whether backpacker or high potential talent, this kind of information is very relevant, and I think it is imperative to bring this to public attention. It has also come to my attention that these kind of threads get flagged very often on HN. Are you analysing/monitoring the groups of peope that are flagging these threads or whether the conditions for flagging are set to the right treshhold? Thanks!
- aceazzameen 2y ago
  Anything perceived as negative towards the current US administration has been getting flagged on HN recently. Maybe bots? It's some kind of obvious campaign.
  - huijzer 2y ago
    Yes it's indeed an obvious campaign. Against politics in general. From the guidelines: > Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - freehorse 2y ago
      I would claim that these articles describe "some interesting new phenomenon" that is very relevant to a lot of us. I have colleagues right now cancelling their conference trips to the US either because under new rules they most probably cannot get a visa, or because they do not think it is worth the risk. I am pretty sure they are not the only ones in this kind of situation, and I am pretty sure that this kind of situation is quite relevant to the international audience of HN.
      - 2y ago
kyt 2y ago
Does anyone actually believe this is the full story? It has one primary source: her parents. It says clearly in the article that she violated the terms of her visa according to ICE. Her parents never mention what the violation was. The idea she was deported for doing some chores around the house is laughable.

185 points by pera 2y ago

ck2 2y ago

The point is obviously to terrorize people and create fear. So the question is when will the US be sanctioned for this behavior? If cannot happen legally then financially? Are tourists really going to risk coming here because this is not the first story and it is only going to get worse. Imagine by the Olympics in 2028 - are people REALLY willing to visit here and being subjected to this incredible risk? Can't say "you'll be fine" because just any one encouter with law enforcement on a power-trip and you'll have no rights to how you are treated and how long you are disappeared. They are building holding facilities at military bases all over the country and there will be motivation to fill them up. There will be no lawyer access, no reporter access. You'll just disappear until they decide what to do with you.

croes 2y ago
Tourism will decline. Will be interesting to see how Trump blames that on Biden or left wingers.
ttyprintk 2y ago
I predict strong Federal resistance to the Los Angeles Olympics taking place without individual incentives. The President making surprise appearances in dressing rooms for gender inspection, etc. Likewise, if the 2028 election is cancelled, I expect the only nations participating will be Russia and a newly-minted Gazan resort team.
- ck2 2y ago
  He owns a massive resort/hotel near the Olympics and will want to fill that up and then bring himself to bill taxpayers millions for secret service, etc. So the event will happen but I simply cannot believe I find myself hoping for a worldwide boycott, it's insanity. But why would they cancel the election if they "know those vote counting computers" and no-one is going to stop them from putting on a pretend election like Russia does? People can protest all they want, once they run out of migrants to fill the detention centers they will just move onto protesters since no-one could stop them the first time around.
  - dathinab 2y ago
    > run out of migrants they won't run out for a while. Not only are there a lot of immigrants in the US which they can arbitrary Label as illegal even if not, they are also already are trying to - undo citizenship granted in the past, starting with people not born in the US, but there is clear intend to go further then that. - classify native Americans as not US citizens
- SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
  > if the 2028 election is cancelled Highly unlikely. For the simple reason that countries such as Russia and Türkiye still have elections. Not that USA elections have ever been perfectly representative. But expect them to be less so. And, it might go like this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yren8mxp8o https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yren8mxp8o
- dathinab 2y ago
  realistically speaking Hitler Germany had an Olympic after they discriminated against yew but before it genocide was publically known and a lot of countries still took part in it it ended up being grate propaganda for Hitler Germany with a lot of drugged German athletes winning prices, and a lot of make pretend that things aren't as bad as they are I can't say in which state the US will be by 2028, but if not too dissimilar from today I wouldn't expect things to end up very different. Through in the current state dragging out until 2028 is ... not very likely. So we will see.
nashashmi 2y ago
The checks and balance system has been compromised a little bit. Hope has dropped on congress to check the executive. SCOTUS should be checking next, but people believe they cannot be relied on because they are too conservative. Except CJ Roberts is now concerned about the executive branch assault on justice side. His stance is changing due to the need for C&B.
ChoGGi 2y ago
ICE detainees are big business, at least for the private companies paid to keep them locked up. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/19/canadian-detained-us-immigration-jasmine-mooney https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/19/canadian-det...
adolph 2y ago
> The point is obviously to terrorize people and create fear. This is a perfectly ambiguous point. On the one hand is the practice, which may or may not be novel. On the other is the story, which may or may not be clickbait intended as outrage-engagement.
- hobs 2y ago
  On the other hand there's the president, whose said he's going to go on a mass deportation spree and treating anyone he doesn't like as illegal, but yeah who knows if this is just business as usual!?
- ck2 2y ago
  Yes your kind of hand waiving is EXACTLY what went down in the 1930s in Germany, everyone was "don't get carried away, this is fine/exaggerated". Now it's just with smartphones. Realize this is not only not the first story but there's another one pending on the front pages of many news sites. It has Stephen Miller written all over it, it's EXACTLY how he works. Stop giving them a pass on this, it's only going to get worse and worse.
  - adolph 2y ago
    You seem certain about this but I don’t know how you came at such certainty.
    - ck2 2y ago
      You need real examples? You know those "gang members" that were kidnapped to Venezuela torture prison without any due process? And everyone was "fine" with it because hey they said they were "gang members" Guess what? It's already been discovered one of them is just a professional soccer player with no gang affiliations. But he's still there in prison with shaved head and will never be seen again because there's no balance of power to stop it, courts are ignored daily. That university protestor they disappeared? As soon as a New York court ruled he has to get a hearing, they moved him out of the district to the south. Now remember this is only eight weeks into it and there are TWO HUNDREDS more to go and imagine that atrocity multiplying weekly. First thing Hitler did when he was given power without their congress (parliament, Enabling Act) was remove the judges opposing him. Sound familiar?
mschuster91 2y ago
> There will be no lawyer access, no reporter access. At least foreigners have their consulates/embassies and it's wise for every foreigner being in the US to have a daily check-in with someone who can contact the country of origin to raise alarm.

firefax 2y ago

They'll terrorize someone who does the chores typical of a houseguest (doing one's own bedding, taking part in the chore rotation), but they never seem to give this treatment to tech bro "digital nomads" who enter on tourist visas in impoverished countries like Thailand or Vietnam and do remote work in the exact same fields that could enrich the populace. Nobody was going to do that housework except the household, wheras someone coding from a cafe in Bangkok is arguably absolutely stealing local jobs.

HPsquared 2y ago
The "digital nomad" is typically employed, pays taxes etc in their home country. Locals don't have access to those jobs. They are accepted because they are economically just like tourists: they come and enjoy the ambience and spend their money, which comes from abroad.
Traubenfuchs 2y ago
How is me using my companies generous WFH rules and working from, say, Bangkok for a month a problem for Bangkok? How am I stealing a local job? What are you talking about? I am living there for a month, paying taxes for lodging, food, transport... If they'd crack down on digital nomads like me I simply will not come and they won't get any money from me. I don't need to be in Bangkok, if they decide to be hostile instead of friendly.
- anal_reactor 2y ago
  > How is me using my companies generous WFH rules and working from, say, Bangkok for a month a problem for Bangkok? You price out locals from the housing market. The fact that you're not aware of this and you think that Thais should be eternally grateful for the generous gift of seeing your face proves how ignorant you are, Mr White Savior.
  - firefax 2y ago
    >You price out locals from the housing market. Thanks, I think people forget about the market distorting effects of people with a high wage taking an extended holiday, often staying in AirBnBs rather than licensed hotels/hostels and thus further distorting the rental market.

jl6 2y ago

We need to create a type of visa that has some kind of court-enforceable rights attached to it. Currently there seems to be no middle ground between citizen-with-full-rights and foreign-scum-with-no-rights. Travel for legitimate business and tourism just isn’t worth the risk right now.

veidr 2y ago
or just not go? ¯\_(ಠ_ಠ)_/¯
- veidr 2y ago
  To be clear, I don't mean "fuck you if you don't like it", I mean literally nobody should go to the USA (I'm a citizen) unless it's absolutely necessary.
  - akie 2y ago
    I've been avoiding traveling to the US, and even doing stop-overs, at least since Trump first became president. You guys are a bit too enthusiastic about the whole police state / fascism thing, and have been ever since 9/11.
    - veidr 2y ago
      You're right to do so, but I think the urgency has changed. Since Bush and 9/11 we had some dubious, secret lists like the "no-fly list" — but we also had a bunch of other secret lists, too. The difference is now you get a Customs agent named CatFart69 and it's all up to him. That is hugely important, and differentiating, because until this current administration, the incompetence (or willful white supremacism / pro-wrestling hero-worship) was at least centralized. Now it is outsourced to the lowest common moron/incel functionary. Which is a truly fundamental difference. Do not come. If you truly must, take similar precautions as you would when visiting Iran or North Korea.
boroboro4 2y ago
There is one already and it’s called green card. It’s not like current administration cares about it.

mouse_ 2y ago

Doesn't this sort of thing happen pretty much constantly? Not that we shouldn't be talking about atrocities, but what changed?

ParetoOptimal 2y ago

The price of having good border security is the odd legal greencard holder is detained for weeks and... Oh wait I'm an actual human. This is disgraceful. The fear and punishment is the point though, I guess to prevent all but certain people from even visiting the US temporarily.

byroot 2y ago

Less extreme, but similar, a French researcher on his way to a conference was denied entry and his laptop and phone were searched and confiscated: > The source said the scientist in the space sector underwent a random check on > arrival, during which his work computer and personal phone were searched, and > messages referring to Donald Trump's administration's treatment of scientists > were found. Authorities told him they had found messages "that express hatred > towards Trump and can be qualified as terrorism," the source said. > His professional and personal equipment was confiscated and he was sent back > to Europe the following day. [0] https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2025/03/20/french-researcher-denied-entry-to-us-for-expressing-personal-opinion-on-trump-policies_6739346_4.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2025/03/20/f...

Sharlin 2y ago
Odd, I thought this administration was all about free speech. I guess there will be additional ESTA questions soon asking whether you have ever criticized Trump or Big Tech.
- akie 2y ago
  For me, not for thee.
veidr 2y ago
Although less egregious at a glance, as a US citizen, I think that is pretty extreme and unprecedented in my lifetime (I'm 50) :-|
- Sharlin 2y ago
  Similar things did happen after 9/11.
  - ty6853 2y ago
    And people were outraged, then it became status quo. Now getting fondled by the TSA is passively accepted and hardly anyone writes about it anymore.

peppers-ghost 2y ago

I can't imagine why anyone would read this and think it's a good idea to come to the US for any reason in this current climate. There's nothing here worth seeing if it means you're going to be tortured for the opportunity.

762236 2y ago
This is how American immigration has always worked. I know others that experienced it under prior administrations. You have to ask why does the press only care about it now?
- diggan 2y ago
  > You have to ask why does the press only care about it now? Does it matter? As someone who at points wanted to visit the US for various reasons, I've been watching the results with horror for decades at this point, how people are treated, so obviously it's a no-go country right now for large parts of the world population, even for tourism. As you say, it's nothing new, and regardless of motives for publishing articles like this, I'm glad more people are finally realizing what could happen if your dumb enough to go there.
- peppers-ghost 2y ago
  I think the press cares about it because each aspect of it is getting worse. People coming into the country no longer have due process and can't see lawyers now.
  - 762236 2y ago
    This changed?
    - peppers-ghost 2y ago
      If you're a human and in the US physically you are guaranteed due process by the constitution. This is being trampled on by the powers that be.

perihelions 2y ago

Remarkable that it seems to be only white woman victims that reach HN's front page. Implicit cultural acknowledgement that brown men *belong* in cages, chained "like Hannibal Lecter", or whatever the hyperbole of the day is. For every shocking depravity involving a European tourist, there's a thousand other human stories some media circles will never acknowledge. Read testimonies from people who aren't born into the right ethnicity. (If you want content warnings about suicide attempts, this one has three different methods). https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/2025/02/25/guantanamo-trump-migrants-deportations-venezuela/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/2025/02/25/guanta... ("Three migrants describe Guantánamo detention") https://archive.is/KV3hr https://archive.is/KV3hr These people have families too. Countless stories on other sites of families pleading for the disappeared, pleading their innocence.

peterlada 2y ago
Yet, even those stories were missing from mainstream media. We are at a turning point and even these stories selected with racial bias help us to understand Trumpler's bullshit smokescreen of "deporting only the violent" undocumented immigrants. This at this point is a rouge department largely staffed with the worst of the racist xenophobic misanthropes.
ty6853 2y ago
Yep. I'm a white boy citizen and they've shackled and chained ( and strip searched) me before for funzies, no one gives a shit unless you're a well off European tourist or white lady. People think it's new, happened to me under Bidens administration.
rpdillon 2y ago
Yeah, there's definitely inequality in reporting, Wikipedia has an article called Missing White Woman Syndrome that I think is exactly the phenomenon you're discussing. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome > Missing white woman syndrome is a term used by some social scientists and media commentators to denote perceived disproportionate media coverage, especially on television, of missing-person cases toward white females as compared to males, or females of color. Supporters of the phenomenon posit that it encompasses supposed disproportionate media attention to females who are young, attractive, white, and upper middle class. Although the term was coined in the context of missing-person cases, it is sometimes used of coverage of other violent crimes. The phenomenon has been highlighted in the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, and other predominantly white countries, as well as South Africa.

neom 2y ago

I know a Canadian who was deported 3 weeks ago, got caught flying back and forth between SF and Vancouver. Same process, put in a holding cell, 17 hours later shackled and escorted to a air canada flight, DHS person waited at the front of the plane till the door was closed. Not sure the Americans can be much more explicit these days, they want their processes followed and they're not tolerating skirting them, Canadian, British or anyone.

koolba 2y ago
So the Canadien was deported for illegally being in the USA, got caught and deported, and then got caught again for illegally entering the USA again? Why would you not expect to be detained? The slap on the wrist was the first deportation.
- neom 2y ago
  She flew into the states (I'm not sure what city she originated from), got taken into inspection, they pulled up her in and out records and asked why she had been going in and out once a month, who she was visiting, who her fiends are etc, and then presented her with her linkedin profile, said she is going down to the American company to work, and then deported her, she was given zero opportunity to provide explanation etc.
- sevenf0ur 2y ago
  I'd expect the same treatment in any other country. If you break the law and get deported, they are not going to let you walk around freely anymore. Maybe she expected special treatment?
nervousvarun 2y ago
It's an obvious and egregious overreaction to the lack of enforcement we've seen here for decades now. The pendulum has certainly swung. Ostensibly too far. Not sure why it all has to be so dramatic. Would imagine most sensible people support enforcing immigration policy and would agree that this hasn't been done for a long time now but obviously "shackles" is ridiculous.

anthk 2y ago

This will hurt US tourism and economy (on top of tariffs) like crazy. In the end Trump won't be seriously attacked by their opposite political, radicalized left-leaning men, but their own ones watching the economy collapse down.

EspadaV9 2y ago
Can confirm. My son wanted to visit Texas (and other places) for his 10th birthday present, we've told him we're not welcome there, and trying to explain the US political situation to a kind under 10 is not easy. But there is no way I would want to put our family in any kind of situation like this, basically at the whim of the border person we happen to get.

steveBK123 2y ago

Very gross and speaks to Trumpers actual classist motivations rather than his populist rhetoric. She was traveling the US, getting free accommodations in exchange for house cleaning? Seemed she was here less than 90 days. How is this different than 1000s of companies that fly employees over from UK on for a few weeks on 90 day ESTAs ? "The ESTA allows only passive business activities (like attending meetings or conferences), and engaging in work could lead to visa revocation, deportation, and bans from future U.S. entry." In practice no company actually complies with this. If you bring an SWE over from London for 2 weeks and they write any code they are in technical violation right..

762236 2y ago
This is standard behavior, nothing special to Trump. Interesting that you immediately think Trumpers, rather than that the government is always sadistic.
- steveBK123 2y ago
  We can concede that the government is a big unwieldy machine where things slip through the cracks and mistakes get made. BUT.. One guy ran on doing this explicitly, and his administration gleefully posts deportation shame p*rn videos on social media. This isn't a "both sides are totally the same, nothing changed" thing.
  - 762236 2y ago
    This isn't falling through the cracks. It is what always happens to people accused of violating their visa terms.
- stephen_g 2y ago
  There’s a clear and massive change in the number of people this is happening to since Trump started making executive orders though. The system was always evil, but Trump seems to have dialled it up 10x…
  - 2y ago

mystraline 2y ago

Yep, the feds will interpret ANY sort of money, goods, services, or other as a form of compensation. Same way amateur radio people can't take anything, even a can of soda, for radio operations. Or how private pilots can't get paid to take someone from 1 airport to the next. Or more recently, doing drone photography and selling said pictures. Does it happen? Sure. But I've seen the feds come down hard on people, including citizens, for even a whiff of 'commercial' anything. And well, I can't recommend anybody coming into the US, especially a non-native citizen. I wouldn't stay, but I don't have that latitude to move countries.

Aldipower 2y ago

Almost identical news today with a German 25 yo guy. He came back from a side-trip to Mexico and was cuffed at the border from Mexico to US. "The German government has responded with a warning to travelers to the USA in response to several Germans being placed in detention pending immigration upon entry in recent weeks." https://www-welt-de.translate.goog/politik/ausland/article255738472/USA-Deutscher-in-US-Abschiebehaft-Sie-wurden-sofort-aggressiv-als-sie-meinen-Pass-sahen.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en https://www-welt-de.translate.goog/politik/ausland/article25...

dathinab 2y ago

the systematic dehumanizing language the US has adopted recently is extremely worrisome if you go through history nearly any case where a government did systematically adopt dehumanizing language ended up in a lot of violence and not seldom lynchings and/or genocide

neonate 2y ago

https://archive.md/VOwDb https://archive.md/VOwDb

kzz102 2y ago

I use to read about the power border agents have over foreigners and was amazed at how easily they can destroy me. The only reason this hasn't happened seems to be that they're mostly decent, professional people. And now that's gone.

peppers-ghost 2y ago
It's luck of the draw with those guys. The job attracts people with nationalistic/fascist mindsets and if you look a certain way you can expect to be treated worse than others.
- anthony_d 2y ago
  I wouldn’t describe them as nationalistic or fascist. There’s no need to bring in any sort of political view… the problem is when little people get a little power. It can get ugly.
  - peppers-ghost 2y ago
    Have you talked with many of them? I've met some that want laws changed so they can shoot migrants on sight.
    - anthony_d 2y ago
      Did they tell you that?
      - peppers-ghost 2y ago
        Yes. It's not an uncommon view. Have you seen any of the leaks from the facebook group a bunch of those guys were on?
anthony_d 2y ago
It’s the same people. There’s always been an element of luck. I travel a lot and I’ve interacted with a lot of border agents. I’d say luck is important for a lot of countries. I’ve had great experiences flying in US, Egypt, UK and Turkey I’ve also had terrible experiences with US, and Iceland. Most other places have been somewhere in between.

Sharlin 2y ago

According to a new advisory our Foreign Ministry just published, ESTA and visa rules have been changed to mandate that the gender you enter be your assigned-at-birth one. If your current travel documents do not match that, well, tough luck, it's going to be a crapshoot whether you'll be let in.

chris_wot 2y ago

America, you are in so much trouble. I care only so much, and have been trying, rather unsuccessfully, to not care. However, it appears your President (both of them, the elected one, and the billionaire non-elected one) wants to directly interfere with our health care system and our Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme. We in Australia have a small population compared to yours. We have a fantastic (albeit imperfect) public health care system which we have, as a country, enthusiastically and democratically embraced. Please, if you as a country do desire, by all means fuck up your own countrymen with a draconian private health care system which causes medical bankruptcy, but leave us the fuck alone. We aren’t causing you any harm and we aren’t interfering with your democracy. We have enthusiastically helped you fight your wars and signed all sorts of friendly agreements. We aren’t net drug smugglers to the U.S. By and large, we are as a nation watching America destroy itself and we want nothing to do with it. We aren’t even going to retaliate with corresponding tariffs. Americans question our sometimes spotty privacy legislation. Quite right. But given your Executive Branch doesn’t believe in the rule of law anymore, you can’t even credibly criticise our more lax separation of powers (we are a Common Law country) as all of that has now gone out the window. Good luck, America! You are going to need it.

piokoch 2y ago

[flagged]

sixothree 2y ago

Cruelty is the point.

vuggamie 2y ago

These threads sure drop off the front page fast. It's almost like someone doesn't want to talk about authoritarianism.

BonoboIO 2y ago
I only see them via 24h top via Algolia

wuschel 2y ago

@dang - why is this flagged? There is a considerable group of users outside of the U.S.A. that is very interested in learning and discussing about the current developments when it comes to this kind of treatment of foreigners in the U.S.A. These kind of threads can be very problematic to moderate and require attention in regard the nature of the discussion. However, whether backpacker or high potential talent, this kind of information is very relevant, and I think it is imperative to bring this to public attention. It has also come to my attention that these kind of threads get flagged very often on HN. Are you analysing/monitoring the groups of peope that are flagging these threads or whether the conditions for flagging are set to the right treshhold? Thanks!

aceazzameen 2y ago
Anything perceived as negative towards the current US administration has been getting flagged on HN recently. Maybe bots? It's some kind of obvious campaign.
- huijzer 2y ago
  Yes it's indeed an obvious campaign. Against politics in general. From the guidelines: > Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - freehorse 2y ago
    I would claim that these articles describe "some interesting new phenomenon" that is very relevant to a lot of us. I have colleagues right now cancelling their conference trips to the US either because under new rules they most probably cannot get a visa, or because they do not think it is worth the risk. I am pretty sure they are not the only ones in this kind of situation, and I am pretty sure that this kind of situation is quite relevant to the international audience of HN.
    - 2y ago

kyt 2y ago

Does anyone actually believe this is the full story? It has one primary source: her parents. It says clearly in the article that she violated the terms of her visa according to ICE. Her parents never mention what the violation was. The idea she was deported for doing some chores around the house is laughable.