34 ms·
Where in the EU?
by rad_gruchalski 2y ago
Where in the EU?
- egorfine 2y agorn I'm in Poland, where things are still sane. I have tried in Germany as well, and that's just impossible.
- rad_gruchalski 2y agoOh, it’s possible in Germany. What problems do you have in Poland?
- egorfine 2y ago> Oh, it’s possible in Germany Of course. How do I fire an employee? That's right, I don't. Otherwise sure it's possible.
- 4ggr0 2y agoalways amusing when people realize that workers have and deserve rights in other parts of the world.
- egorfine 2y agoSocial security is an incredibly good thing. It defines Europe. There's a price for it and that's what we're discussing here.
- cess11 2y agoIf you have a reason, just terminate the contract? That's how it works in pretty much all of the EU.
- rad_gruchalski 2y agoIt’s not so easy in Germany when the company has 10+ employees. You need a process consisting of warnings, giving time to correct the behaviour and what not. There are cases where people who have been terminated for sexual misconduct or stealing have been ordered by the court to return to work.
- cess11 2y agoSure it is. I suspect the reason that you didn't provide any details from those cases is that the judgements wouldn't be surprising if you did. If you really want to be able to get rid of people willy-nilly in Germany, use subcontractors and 'rent' the labour you need.
- crote 2y agoOh, you can. You just need to provide a valid reason, that's all. Firing someone because they are stealing from the company, harassing a coworker, consistently underperforming, or because you're shutting down a business unit? Easy! Firing someone because it's a Tuesday, or because they got pregnant? Sorry, can't do that.
- egorfine 2y agoCollecting data in order to come up with a valid reason is prohibited. Like, impossible to fire a programmer if he only does a bare minimum and simply is not productive.
- rad_gruchalski 2y agoUnless you have a valid suspicion. However, you have to tell the employee he is under observation.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- atwrk 2y ago> How do I fire an employee? That's right, I don't. It's easy to fire employees in Germany (especially in small shops), e.g. when they steal, are always late, are badmouthing colleagues, are talking about company internals, are insolent to customers, deliver bad work, and on and on. You simply have to follow a defined process (basically at least one written warning for the same thing before firing). What you can't do is having a Musk style temper tantrum and fire someone at will because you feel like that. Source: I had to fire multiple people in Germany.
- egorfine 2y ago> What you can't do is having a Musk style temper tantrum and fire someone at will because you feel like that. This is kind of double-sided coin. Like, people are feeling protected and have a sense of security and that's what defines Europe. On the other hand, businesses hands are tied and they cannot scale dynamically as in the US. > follow a defined process And that's the main problem in the EU. There's a process for everything and sometimes it's a burden and limits the abilities to change things.
- kennysoona 2y ago> What you can't do is having a Musk style temper tantrum and fire someone at will because you feel like that. What about if you just don't feel they are a good fit anymore, even if you can't show why based purely on numbers. Is any amount of advance notice sufficient to allow that?
- acdha 2y agoThe problem with “even if you can’t show why” is that it often means wrong gender, race, religion, political affiliation, drinking club, etc. A better question would be whether you could articulate what change you’re looking for and show that this standard was clearly communicated and applied to the entire team.
- rad_gruchalski 2y agoWhy not? How many fo you have?
- sebazzz 2y agoYou don't like worker rights. You should have written that. That is not bureaucracy.