3 ms·

Thanks, the EU is full and has enough immigrants. Why should EU citizens pay outrageous rents, compete against the whole world with their degrees, get lower wag

Thanks, the EU is full and has enough immigrants. Why should EU citizens pay outrageous rents, compete against the whole world with their degrees, get lower wages and have prime property bought up by Chinese and Russian oligarchs? (This does not mean that people should be treated brutally at the border.)

01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
Guess I'll die, can't find a country that will take me and my partners
- adamc 2y ago
  I hate this new world and the rise of selfishness.
  - mdp2021 2y ago
    Which has now become a political programme ("(We won't do what is right, ) we will do what is in our interest").
    - tpm 2y ago
      > we will do what is in our interest if that at least was true, but often it is not
  - rangestransform 2y ago
    I like that people are starting to realize that their first world countries should not give up their resources and power altruistically How the plunders are divided domestically is another issue but I’d be damned if my country was altruistic internationally
otikik 2y ago
> Thanks, the EU is full and has enough immigrants EU is full of old people and not enough children. The population pyramid looks like a bullet: https://www.populationpyramid.net/europe/2024/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/europe/2024/ It's not difficult to see where that leads to, if we stop accepting immigrants.
- twUewhag 2y ago
  If the rents go up and a native couple that still remembers the living standards of their parents is forced to raise a family in two rooms, they will not have children. Immigrants used to that situation might. There are other solutions, e.g. that the wealthy boomers pay with their houses for their retirements or are forced to rent out their huge properties. The retirement ponzi scheme needs to stop at some point anyway. With automation one might also need fewer workers. Most importantly, many immigrants receive social security and are not employed.
  - ethbr1 2y ago
    There are multiple simultaneous problems: - A political unwillingness to reign in private capital that's exacerbating resident housing shortages / rent increases (read: AirBnb) - An infrastructure underinvestment in building sufficient new housing (or motivating current housing owners to densify) - An underappreciation (Germany) that one can't switch energy mix at nation-scale without first building replacement capacity - (Europe at least has far more child-rearing-friendly policies than the US) But all of that is a "maintain demographic shape AND ___" problem. Countries with inverted demographic pyramids go financially south very quickly. At best, there are some extremely hard compromises to make (higher taxes on a smaller working base, or decreased social/retirement benefits). At worst, there are no solutions to balancing a budget and things spiral out of control quickly. It's underappreciated that "young immigrant labor is funding the country".
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- seanw444 2y ago
  People don't want the responsibility of having kids and raising them properly, so they substitute their posterity for foreigners as a bandaid fix. EU is truly a yikes.
  - otikik 2y ago
    That is an extremely simplistic view.
thomasingalls 2y ago
Isn't it obvious that this has more to do with oligarchs hoarding wealth than it does with "being full" of immigrants? Immigrants are nowhere near numerous enough to be doing the kind of damage you claim, but the extremely wealthy do have a stranglehold on resources.
- account42 2y ago
  It's both. And immigrants help the wealthy class become even richer by providing cheap labor while everyone makes up the rest in social security payments.
  - thomasingalls 2y ago
    Are you making the frequently repeated but always false assertion that immigrants don't pay into social security? You know who's not paying their fair share into social security in any country? It's the rich, yo! It's the rich! By a wide margin! To be perfectly clear, I don't care one way or the other about more immigration or less immigration. What I am saying is that compound interest and the ability to purchase assets is going to continue to draw wealth away from everyone except the ultra wealthy, and immigration policy has effectively nothing to do with that. Calling on everyone to hate each other is going to prevent us from acting together to solve this problem. We could instead work together, unionize, vote for policies and politicians that won't let the ultra wealthy continue to hoard their gold like dragons.

01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago

Guess I'll die, can't find a country that will take me and my partners

adamc 2y ago
I hate this new world and the rise of selfishness.
- mdp2021 2y ago
  Which has now become a political programme ("(We won't do what is right, ) we will do what is in our interest").
  - tpm 2y ago
    > we will do what is in our interest if that at least was true, but often it is not
- rangestransform 2y ago
  I like that people are starting to realize that their first world countries should not give up their resources and power altruistically How the plunders are divided domestically is another issue but I’d be damned if my country was altruistic internationally

otikik 2y ago

> Thanks, the EU is full and has enough immigrants EU is full of old people and not enough children. The population pyramid looks like a bullet: https://www.populationpyramid.net/europe/2024/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/europe/2024/ It's not difficult to see where that leads to, if we stop accepting immigrants.

twUewhag 2y ago
If the rents go up and a native couple that still remembers the living standards of their parents is forced to raise a family in two rooms, they will not have children. Immigrants used to that situation might. There are other solutions, e.g. that the wealthy boomers pay with their houses for their retirements or are forced to rent out their huge properties. The retirement ponzi scheme needs to stop at some point anyway. With automation one might also need fewer workers. Most importantly, many immigrants receive social security and are not employed.
- ethbr1 2y ago
  There are multiple simultaneous problems: - A political unwillingness to reign in private capital that's exacerbating resident housing shortages / rent increases (read: AirBnb) - An infrastructure underinvestment in building sufficient new housing (or motivating current housing owners to densify) - An underappreciation (Germany) that one can't switch energy mix at nation-scale without first building replacement capacity - (Europe at least has far more child-rearing-friendly policies than the US) But all of that is a "maintain demographic shape AND ___" problem. Countries with inverted demographic pyramids go financially south very quickly. At best, there are some extremely hard compromises to make (higher taxes on a smaller working base, or decreased social/retirement benefits). At worst, there are no solutions to balancing a budget and things spiral out of control quickly. It's underappreciated that "young immigrant labor is funding the country".
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
seanw444 2y ago
People don't want the responsibility of having kids and raising them properly, so they substitute their posterity for foreigners as a bandaid fix. EU is truly a yikes.
- otikik 2y ago
  That is an extremely simplistic view.

thomasingalls 2y ago

Isn't it obvious that this has more to do with oligarchs hoarding wealth than it does with "being full" of immigrants? Immigrants are nowhere near numerous enough to be doing the kind of damage you claim, but the extremely wealthy do have a stranglehold on resources.

account42 2y ago
It's both. And immigrants help the wealthy class become even richer by providing cheap labor while everyone makes up the rest in social security payments.
- thomasingalls 2y ago
  Are you making the frequently repeated but always false assertion that immigrants don't pay into social security? You know who's not paying their fair share into social security in any country? It's the rich, yo! It's the rich! By a wide margin! To be perfectly clear, I don't care one way or the other about more immigration or less immigration. What I am saying is that compound interest and the ability to purchase assets is going to continue to draw wealth away from everyone except the ultra wealthy, and immigration policy has effectively nothing to do with that. Calling on everyone to hate each other is going to prevent us from acting together to solve this problem. We could instead work together, unionize, vote for policies and politicians that won't let the ultra wealthy continue to hoard their gold like dragons.