5 ms·

Smart immigrants shouldn't migrate to US anymore, period. Not if you have more than just very short-sighted dollar signs on your eyes. Its just plain out stupid

by jajko 2y ago

Smart immigrants shouldn't migrate to US anymore, period. Not if you have more than just very short-sighted dollar signs on your eyes. Its just plain out stupid thing to do, to be treated worse than garbage. This is how institutionalized xenophobia looks like. The fact is, I've read very similar articles about how US treats any non-US citizens a decade or two ago. Nothing changed dramatically, people just bring these up now due to current admin. In US, if you are not a citizen, you are subhuman and treated as such, directly by government. Why the fuck would anybody with any amount of dignity cause it upon themselves willingly? Europe can offer you tons of opportunities and treat you with dignity. Good quality of life and happiness is much easier to achieve, much less stress, your health and education of your kids will be taken care of. Or Australia. Heck, almost any other free place but current US, and many places experience much more actual personal freedom currently. We can certainly do more than just boycott some nazi ev cars.

pjc50 2y ago
As a Brit: be careful about bigging up how Europe treats immigrants, because the Mediterranean issue has really upped the brutality of immigration enforcement and has resulted in some countries making it illegal to rescue drowning people.
- twUewhag 2y ago
  The charges are that they facilitated trafficking by rescuing people that didn't need rescuing: https://www.euronews.com/2023/06/30/these-people-face-20-years-in-jail-for-saving-others-from-drowning-in-the-mediterranean https://www.euronews.com/2023/06/30/these-people-face-20-yea... Ironically somewhat corroborated by the photo in the article. What is the solution for Italy and Greece with these massive coast lines and islands? The refugees deliberately lose their passports. If the rescuers dumped them in a random North African country, everything would be fine. But they want to import as many as possible for ideological reasons.
  - tpm 2y ago
    > What is the solution for Italy and Greece with these massive coast lines and islands? The solution is to once again enable applying for asylum at the embassies and consulates. Then nobody has to drown. > If the rescuers dumped them in a random North African country, everything would be fine. Apart from the many people being killed by random North African country, like what is happening currently with migrants in Libya. That's not fine at all. > But they want to import as many as possible for ideological reasons. Humanitarian reasons, not ideological.
    - account42 2y ago
      > The solution is to once again enable applying for asylum at the embassies and consulates. Then nobody has to drown. So you think if those countries don't accept everyone that wants to enter then it's ok for people to try to enter illegally? That's not how borders work. > Apart from the many people being killed by random North African country, like what is happening currently with migrants in Libya. That's not fine at all. They can go to a neighboring country without being "stranded" at sea where they need "rescuing". > Humanitarian reasons, not ideological. Humanitarian reasons do not require you to pick up people near the coast of Africa and and instead of taking them back back to where they came from bring them to ports much further away. That's purely ideological. One could even call it treasonous.
      - tpm 2y ago
        > The solution is to once again enable applying for asylum at the embassies and consulates. Then nobody has to drown. > So you think if those countries don't accept everyone that wants to enter then it's ok for people to try to enter illegally? Right, so let's unpack this. There is no way to apply for asylum at embassies. It was previously possible, but it's not possible anymore. If you want to apply for asylum, you have to be physically present in the country where you want to apply. Since applying for asylum is legal (it's a guaranteed human right and some countries try to respect at least a subset of human rights, wonder for how long), it is also legal to enter a country for the purpose of applying for asylum, no matter what everyone else says. > countries don't accept everyone This is not about accepting anyone. Asylum is a totally different legal concept than migration. Asylum is granted (or not), not accepted. People that are drowning in the Med. sea are applying for asylum, if they survive. For most of them, it will not be granted, but they are exercising their rights. People have a right to apply for asylum, countries have a right to grant or refuse at will. > They can go to a neighboring country without being "stranded" at sea where they need "rescuing". Everyone has the right not to be killed. Just a basic respect to other human beings would be welcome at this stage. > Humanitarian reasons do not require you to pick up people near the coast of Africa... Yes they do, there are again legal reasons for that. The laws can be changed, but until then it is indeed the only legal thing to do. And also some people don't enjoy seeing other people drowning.
twUewhag 2y ago
Thanks, the EU is full and has enough immigrants. Why should EU citizens pay outrageous rents, compete against the whole world with their degrees, get lower wages and have prime property bought up by Chinese and Russian oligarchs? (This does not mean that people should be treated brutally at the border.)
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
  Guess I'll die, can't find a country that will take me and my partners
  - adamc 2y ago
    I hate this new world and the rise of selfishness.
    - mdp2021 2y ago
      Which has now become a political programme ("(We won't do what is right, ) we will do what is in our interest").
      - tpm 2y ago
        > we will do what is in our interest if that at least was true, but often it is not
    - rangestransform 2y ago
      I like that people are starting to realize that their first world countries should not give up their resources and power altruistically How the plunders are divided domestically is another issue but I’d be damned if my country was altruistic internationally
- otikik 2y ago
  > Thanks, the EU is full and has enough immigrants EU is full of old people and not enough children. The population pyramid looks like a bullet: https://www.populationpyramid.net/europe/2024/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/europe/2024/ It's not difficult to see where that leads to, if we stop accepting immigrants.
d3nj4l 2y ago
> Smart immigrants shouldn't migrate to US anymore, period. Not if you have more than just very short-sighted dollar signs on your eyes. Its just plain out stupid thing to do, to be treated worse than garbage. This is how institutionalized xenophobia looks like. No. The US is still the best place in the world for immigrants. There's no other place in the world (barring maybe Canada) where as many people from as many other countries and ethnicities can feel welcome and a part of society. I have several friends who move to European countries (mostly Germany but also the Netherlands) and they never felt like they belonged, while in the US I feel like everyone else. What's going on right now is a temporary shift in this policy, but hopefully the pendulum will swing back.
- richev 2y ago
  Nonsense. Saying that as a European who lived in the US for a few years, now residing in Australia.
  - d3nj4l 2y ago
    You're European - you don't understand what it's like as an immigrant from the third world.
    - A_D_E_P_T 2y ago
      London at this point is mostly immigrants from the third world. Huge swaths of Frankfurt and Paris are the same way. Sure, if you immigrate to a random town (population = 1500) in the French Alps from Africa, I grant that you'll never fit in. But the same goes if you immigrate to a small Iowa farming town (population = 1500) from Ecquador.
queuebert 2y ago
> Why the fuck would anybody with any amount of dignity cause it upon themselves willingly? Presumably because their home country treats them even worse? At least that's the point of the refugee program.
- diggan 2y ago
  > Presumably because their home country treats them even worse True or not, the important part of why people emigrate is because they believe it to be better. US has been really good at propaganda for a long time, and many outsiders (used to) believe that the US truly is the land of the free, although all the evidence pointed in the other direction.
- motorest 2y ago
  > Presumably because their home country treats them even worse? At least that's the point of the refugee program. I personally know multiple non-US citizens who did their PhD at MIT. Most of them faced the requirement to temporarily move to the US as a major but necessary nuisance. I also know others who explicitly opted to skip their MIT application to enroll instead in an European program, with all the hoop jumping required to apply for visas being a major factor. This was a decade or so ago. I assure you that right now things are not looking at better. Also, people like you should really try to touch grass and try to learn how things are back in the real world. For a few decades now the US is far from being the top choice. In fact, the US doesn't even feature in the world's top 20 in quality of life, in spite of everything. What exactly do you think is happening?
southernplaces7 2y ago
>Europe can offer you tons of opportunities and treat you with dignity. Good quality of life and happiness is much easier to achieve I was wondering how long it would take for this post to generate comments from the smug "as a European" crowd of people with deluded notions of superiority for the complex European continent. I detest the screaming orangutan politics of Trump and his hardcore followers but the U.S. as a whole mostly remains a fantastic melting pot destination for immigrants like it's always been. One 4-year presidency (after a largely ineffectual and sometimes laughable previous one) does not have to mold the history or legacy of a country. By that logic, barely a state in Europe would be worth recommending at all given the continent's none too distant history or barbaric mistreatment of immigrants. Even in modern Europe, no, treatment with dignity is not very guaranteed. The old racism of many European countries is seething just below the surface and if it¿s applied even to other Europeans, you can imagine how it might be felt by immigrants from the many countries that have for decades migrated to the U.S and integrated amazingly well for the most part. Shitting on the U.S has always been de jure in certain circles, and now more than previously (partly deserved thanks to Trump) but it shouldn't happen at the expense of reality.
- nickd2001 2y ago
  "One 4-year presidency does not have to mold the history or legacy of a country." What actually happens after 4 years though? Isn't the concern, the supreme court ruling that the president is above the law? So laws like, you can't run for more than 2 terms, you must have a democratic election where everyone gets a vote, basically all laws around elections, no longer need be followed. Or for that matter any other laws. A president could seemingly behave like Hitler and face no justice. Trump won't live forever, but what's to stop him handing over to someone similar? (BTW to your main point, I agree indeed Europe has its major issues too)
- Vilian 2y ago
  >I was wondering how long it would take for this post to generate comments from the smug "as a European" crowd of people with deluded notions of superiority for the complex European continent. Dozen of country are better than US, people point that out, us-american get offended lmao, relax, we didn't even started pointing to oceania and Asian as better alternative than US
rangestransform 2y ago
> Its just plain out stupid thing to do, to be treated worse than garbage. My home country and the EU treat me even worse because of the lack of 200k+ USD jobs for my experience level
- account42 2y ago
  That's a real first world problem. Most of the world, including most people in western countries don't earn that much.

by jajko 2y ago

pjc50 2y ago

As a Brit: be careful about bigging up how Europe treats immigrants, because the Mediterranean issue has really upped the brutality of immigration enforcement and has resulted in some countries making it illegal to rescue drowning people.

twUewhag 2y ago
The charges are that they facilitated trafficking by rescuing people that didn't need rescuing: https://www.euronews.com/2023/06/30/these-people-face-20-years-in-jail-for-saving-others-from-drowning-in-the-mediterranean https://www.euronews.com/2023/06/30/these-people-face-20-yea... Ironically somewhat corroborated by the photo in the article. What is the solution for Italy and Greece with these massive coast lines and islands? The refugees deliberately lose their passports. If the rescuers dumped them in a random North African country, everything would be fine. But they want to import as many as possible for ideological reasons.
- tpm 2y ago
  > What is the solution for Italy and Greece with these massive coast lines and islands? The solution is to once again enable applying for asylum at the embassies and consulates. Then nobody has to drown. > If the rescuers dumped them in a random North African country, everything would be fine. Apart from the many people being killed by random North African country, like what is happening currently with migrants in Libya. That's not fine at all. > But they want to import as many as possible for ideological reasons. Humanitarian reasons, not ideological.
  - account42 2y ago
    > The solution is to once again enable applying for asylum at the embassies and consulates. Then nobody has to drown. So you think if those countries don't accept everyone that wants to enter then it's ok for people to try to enter illegally? That's not how borders work. > Apart from the many people being killed by random North African country, like what is happening currently with migrants in Libya. That's not fine at all. They can go to a neighboring country without being "stranded" at sea where they need "rescuing". > Humanitarian reasons, not ideological. Humanitarian reasons do not require you to pick up people near the coast of Africa and and instead of taking them back back to where they came from bring them to ports much further away. That's purely ideological. One could even call it treasonous.
    - tpm 2y ago
      > The solution is to once again enable applying for asylum at the embassies and consulates. Then nobody has to drown. > So you think if those countries don't accept everyone that wants to enter then it's ok for people to try to enter illegally? Right, so let's unpack this. There is no way to apply for asylum at embassies. It was previously possible, but it's not possible anymore. If you want to apply for asylum, you have to be physically present in the country where you want to apply. Since applying for asylum is legal (it's a guaranteed human right and some countries try to respect at least a subset of human rights, wonder for how long), it is also legal to enter a country for the purpose of applying for asylum, no matter what everyone else says. > countries don't accept everyone This is not about accepting anyone. Asylum is a totally different legal concept than migration. Asylum is granted (or not), not accepted. People that are drowning in the Med. sea are applying for asylum, if they survive. For most of them, it will not be granted, but they are exercising their rights. People have a right to apply for asylum, countries have a right to grant or refuse at will. > They can go to a neighboring country without being "stranded" at sea where they need "rescuing". Everyone has the right not to be killed. Just a basic respect to other human beings would be welcome at this stage. > Humanitarian reasons do not require you to pick up people near the coast of Africa... Yes they do, there are again legal reasons for that. The laws can be changed, but until then it is indeed the only legal thing to do. And also some people don't enjoy seeing other people drowning.

twUewhag 2y ago

Thanks, the EU is full and has enough immigrants. Why should EU citizens pay outrageous rents, compete against the whole world with their degrees, get lower wages and have prime property bought up by Chinese and Russian oligarchs? (This does not mean that people should be treated brutally at the border.)

01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
Guess I'll die, can't find a country that will take me and my partners
- adamc 2y ago
  I hate this new world and the rise of selfishness.
  - mdp2021 2y ago
    Which has now become a political programme ("(We won't do what is right, ) we will do what is in our interest").
    - tpm 2y ago
      > we will do what is in our interest if that at least was true, but often it is not
  - rangestransform 2y ago
    I like that people are starting to realize that their first world countries should not give up their resources and power altruistically How the plunders are divided domestically is another issue but I’d be damned if my country was altruistic internationally
otikik 2y ago
> Thanks, the EU is full and has enough immigrants EU is full of old people and not enough children. The population pyramid looks like a bullet: https://www.populationpyramid.net/europe/2024/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/europe/2024/ It's not difficult to see where that leads to, if we stop accepting immigrants.

d3nj4l 2y ago

> Smart immigrants shouldn't migrate to US anymore, period. Not if you have more than just very short-sighted dollar signs on your eyes. Its just plain out stupid thing to do, to be treated worse than garbage. This is how institutionalized xenophobia looks like. No. The US is still the best place in the world for immigrants. There's no other place in the world (barring maybe Canada) where as many people from as many other countries and ethnicities can feel welcome and a part of society. I have several friends who move to European countries (mostly Germany but also the Netherlands) and they never felt like they belonged, while in the US I feel like everyone else. What's going on right now is a temporary shift in this policy, but hopefully the pendulum will swing back.

richev 2y ago
Nonsense. Saying that as a European who lived in the US for a few years, now residing in Australia.
- d3nj4l 2y ago
  You're European - you don't understand what it's like as an immigrant from the third world.
  - A_D_E_P_T 2y ago
    London at this point is mostly immigrants from the third world. Huge swaths of Frankfurt and Paris are the same way. Sure, if you immigrate to a random town (population = 1500) in the French Alps from Africa, I grant that you'll never fit in. But the same goes if you immigrate to a small Iowa farming town (population = 1500) from Ecquador.

queuebert 2y ago

> Why the fuck would anybody with any amount of dignity cause it upon themselves willingly? Presumably because their home country treats them even worse? At least that's the point of the refugee program.

diggan 2y ago
> Presumably because their home country treats them even worse True or not, the important part of why people emigrate is because they believe it to be better. US has been really good at propaganda for a long time, and many outsiders (used to) believe that the US truly is the land of the free, although all the evidence pointed in the other direction.
motorest 2y ago
> Presumably because their home country treats them even worse? At least that's the point of the refugee program. I personally know multiple non-US citizens who did their PhD at MIT. Most of them faced the requirement to temporarily move to the US as a major but necessary nuisance. I also know others who explicitly opted to skip their MIT application to enroll instead in an European program, with all the hoop jumping required to apply for visas being a major factor. This was a decade or so ago. I assure you that right now things are not looking at better. Also, people like you should really try to touch grass and try to learn how things are back in the real world. For a few decades now the US is far from being the top choice. In fact, the US doesn't even feature in the world's top 20 in quality of life, in spite of everything. What exactly do you think is happening?

southernplaces7 2y ago

>Europe can offer you tons of opportunities and treat you with dignity. Good quality of life and happiness is much easier to achieve I was wondering how long it would take for this post to generate comments from the smug "as a European" crowd of people with deluded notions of superiority for the complex European continent. I detest the screaming orangutan politics of Trump and his hardcore followers but the U.S. as a whole mostly remains a fantastic melting pot destination for immigrants like it's always been. One 4-year presidency (after a largely ineffectual and sometimes laughable previous one) does not have to mold the history or legacy of a country. By that logic, barely a state in Europe would be worth recommending at all given the continent's none too distant history or barbaric mistreatment of immigrants. Even in modern Europe, no, treatment with dignity is not very guaranteed. The old racism of many European countries is seething just below the surface and if it¿s applied even to other Europeans, you can imagine how it might be felt by immigrants from the many countries that have for decades migrated to the U.S and integrated amazingly well for the most part. Shitting on the U.S has always been de jure in certain circles, and now more than previously (partly deserved thanks to Trump) but it shouldn't happen at the expense of reality.

nickd2001 2y ago
"One 4-year presidency does not have to mold the history or legacy of a country." What actually happens after 4 years though? Isn't the concern, the supreme court ruling that the president is above the law? So laws like, you can't run for more than 2 terms, you must have a democratic election where everyone gets a vote, basically all laws around elections, no longer need be followed. Or for that matter any other laws. A president could seemingly behave like Hitler and face no justice. Trump won't live forever, but what's to stop him handing over to someone similar? (BTW to your main point, I agree indeed Europe has its major issues too)
Vilian 2y ago
>I was wondering how long it would take for this post to generate comments from the smug "as a European" crowd of people with deluded notions of superiority for the complex European continent. Dozen of country are better than US, people point that out, us-american get offended lmao, relax, we didn't even started pointing to oceania and Asian as better alternative than US

rangestransform 2y ago

> Its just plain out stupid thing to do, to be treated worse than garbage. My home country and the EU treat me even worse because of the lack of 200k+ USD jobs for my experience level

account42 2y ago
That's a real first world problem. Most of the world, including most people in western countries don't earn that much.