4 ms·

Given that people are being arrested for the most stupid reasons in Turkey, I can understand people not wanting to put their life on the line. 10 years ago I co

Given that people are being arrested for the most stupid reasons in Turkey, I can understand people not wanting to put their life on the line. 10 years ago I could have seen people protesting (see Gezi park protests) but now ? Not really. What's worse is that somehow plenty of Turk are fine with it. Inflation above 100% for long time, crappy salaries, people can't even afford rents but the leader's party still get about 30% of the votes. This is also a lesson for fellow Americans: don't think that just because Trump won't be able to lower the price of the eggs, will make rural voters miserable and make America a worse place means that at the next election you get rid of him. Once the environment is set up properly, anything can be justified, and with the right mindset the voter will accept any bullshit. Remember, "we always have been at war with Eastasia"

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labster 2y ago
Well, damn, that was my strategy to deal with Trump, waiting on the economy. I guess it’s all joever for American democracy. 250 years was a pretty good run all things considered.
- cko 2y ago
  We had Japanese internment camps, Jim Crowe laws and McCarthyism and survived. Let's not write off American democracy just yet.
  - actionfromafar 2y ago
    These things were despicable but not an attack on the system itself. This time is different. I haven’t written American democracy off yet, but I wouldn’t bet the farm.
    - spiderfarmer 2y ago
      Even if democracy survives this time round, the people who enabled its demise thus far won’t go anywhere. There are so many angry, misinformed and potentially violent fringe groups with easy access to weapons, it’s truly disgusting. And they’ll feel emboldened by how easy the fabric of society seems to come apart. I have seen the culture on HN change in the ten years I have been a member. The people who defend Trump and his policies now would never have done so 10 years ago. It goes to show that the USA we remember doesn’t seem to exist anymore.
    - pjc50 2y ago
      Those were the system. The core Americanness of American democracy is white supremacy, and there's a huge number of voters who will demand repression for other Americans. Usually defining them as "not Americans" along the way, as with the attack on birthright citizenship and green card holders.
  - archagon 2y ago
    I would argue that every prior president at least respected the Constitution, democratic norms, and the peaceful transfer of power. If the ruling party cares more about their goals than democracy, what hope do we have?
psychlops 2y ago
Trump can't run for election again as it's his second term. Voting doesn't apply.
- dragonwriter 2y ago
  He can't run within the Constitution if it isn't changed. OTOH, his concern about whether his actions are Constitutional and the ability and willingness of any other institution to impose meaningful consequences on his unconstitutional acts don't support the conclusion that his future actions will be limited to what the Constitution allows.
  - stickfigure 2y ago
    A constitutional amendment requires ratification by 3/4 of the states. Even getting one proposed requires 2/3 of both houses of congress. This is not going to happen. Simply ignoring the constitution and cancelling the vote? There's no way he will be able to shift the Overton window that far in ~3 years.
    - vkou 2y ago
      > There's no way he will be able to shift the Overton window that far in ~3 years. Given how far it's shifted in two months, how far it shifts every day, and given that there are 46 more months to go, I wouldn't hold my breath on that.
    - gizzlon 2y ago
      Are you 100% sure there are no obscure laws or something that can be used to postpone an election somehow? :( How about simply refusing to accept a loss, calling the election rigged and fake.. Or simply putting a puppet as the candidate. Believe Putin did this some years ago.
      - vkou 2y ago
        He wouldn't need a law. He'd just do what he wants, some judge will rule it illegal, and he'll ignore the ruling. That playbook has worked up until this point, why stop? Elections would be held, but there's no reason to assume their outcome will be respected.

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labster 2y ago

Well, damn, that was my strategy to deal with Trump, waiting on the economy. I guess it’s all joever for American democracy. 250 years was a pretty good run all things considered.

cko 2y ago
We had Japanese internment camps, Jim Crowe laws and McCarthyism and survived. Let's not write off American democracy just yet.
- actionfromafar 2y ago
  These things were despicable but not an attack on the system itself. This time is different. I haven’t written American democracy off yet, but I wouldn’t bet the farm.
  - spiderfarmer 2y ago
    Even if democracy survives this time round, the people who enabled its demise thus far won’t go anywhere. There are so many angry, misinformed and potentially violent fringe groups with easy access to weapons, it’s truly disgusting. And they’ll feel emboldened by how easy the fabric of society seems to come apart. I have seen the culture on HN change in the ten years I have been a member. The people who defend Trump and his policies now would never have done so 10 years ago. It goes to show that the USA we remember doesn’t seem to exist anymore.
  - pjc50 2y ago
    Those were the system. The core Americanness of American democracy is white supremacy, and there's a huge number of voters who will demand repression for other Americans. Usually defining them as "not Americans" along the way, as with the attack on birthright citizenship and green card holders.
- archagon 2y ago
  I would argue that every prior president at least respected the Constitution, democratic norms, and the peaceful transfer of power. If the ruling party cares more about their goals than democracy, what hope do we have?

psychlops 2y ago

Trump can't run for election again as it's his second term. Voting doesn't apply.

dragonwriter 2y ago
He can't run within the Constitution if it isn't changed. OTOH, his concern about whether his actions are Constitutional and the ability and willingness of any other institution to impose meaningful consequences on his unconstitutional acts don't support the conclusion that his future actions will be limited to what the Constitution allows.
- stickfigure 2y ago
  A constitutional amendment requires ratification by 3/4 of the states. Even getting one proposed requires 2/3 of both houses of congress. This is not going to happen. Simply ignoring the constitution and cancelling the vote? There's no way he will be able to shift the Overton window that far in ~3 years.
  - vkou 2y ago
    > There's no way he will be able to shift the Overton window that far in ~3 years. Given how far it's shifted in two months, how far it shifts every day, and given that there are 46 more months to go, I wouldn't hold my breath on that.
  - gizzlon 2y ago
    Are you 100% sure there are no obscure laws or something that can be used to postpone an election somehow? :( How about simply refusing to accept a loss, calling the election rigged and fake.. Or simply putting a puppet as the candidate. Believe Putin did this some years ago.
    - vkou 2y ago
      He wouldn't need a law. He'd just do what he wants, some judge will rule it illegal, and he'll ignore the ruling. That playbook has worked up until this point, why stop? Elections would be held, but there's no reason to assume their outcome will be respected.