23 ms·

I am from Turkey and this really concerns me. If we don't protest this in the streets and fight back I am afraid we don't have any kind of law anymore.

by aiono 2y ago

fracus 2y ago
Isn't this just the latest cut in your democracy's death by a thousand cuts?
- HenryBemis 2y ago
  I'd add also a thousand bullets, a thousand tortures, a thousand rapes, and a thousand days in prison for having a different opinion and expressing it.
- bamboozled 2y ago
  Seems like for much of the world?
  - pstuart 2y ago
    Sadly, yes. I'm not sure what it will take to make people realize that a "strong man" is not the answer.
    - bamboozled 2y ago
      I doubt, but wonder if it's a generational thing, like would the twenty somethings be into strongmen when they're the majority of voters? I used to think the younger generation were a bit different but I've seen them pretty much obsess over MAGA, Joe Rogan et al. So more of the same I guess?
      - jajko 2y ago
        Human nature goes deep and doesnt change much across generations
      - Lanolderen 2y ago
        Essentially, young people want change, old people want stability. The right in the US has been advertising in the direction of change so it's liked for it. Especially by young people doomscrolling about "property prices now vs before" and cartelgram/liveleakesque videos. Once you get older you get a stable job, family, etc so you're less nervous about life and have better things to do than to get your adrenaline up watching people get murdered. Written from the perspective of someone who's started to get comfortable in life. Now I'm quite mild politically but I can go more right short term if I spend some time watching people get butchered by gangs/nutcases. Some of my friends still watch a lot of that and it definitely makes you very much like having a "capacity for violence". It's one of those things that's IMO good in moderation, since some paranoia is healthy but off the deep end it turns into "get them before they get me"esque genocidal ideas and scrolling the nazi army webm montages and gore threads on /gif/ / /b/ at 2AM.
        hulitu 2y ago
        > Essentially, young people want change, old people want stability Old people have learned that change always means worse. Corruption is so big that it isn't really matter who is in power, the system functions as intended. (All over the world)
        Lanolderen 2y ago
        Not necessarily worse IMO but that it's a painful process for mediocre improvements.
- chgs 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    It's a disrepectful comparison for Turkish nationals working hard to build democratic institutions. The US hasn't had the same history of coups, insurgencies, pogroms, massacres, censorship, corruption, etc. Making everything about the US is just rude.
    - hackyhacky 2y ago
      Why is it rude? Do you think Americans haven't worked hard to build democratic institutions?
      - Teever 2y ago
        It's not that it's rude per se, it's that users of this site who aren't from the US find it irksome when a subject that isn't the US comes up and someone invariably pivots it to talk about the US and current events. It's okay to talk about stuff that isn't contemporary American politics or even sit the conversation out and observe others talking about non American subjects. Not everything has to be about America.
        ok_dad 2y ago
        Unfortunately, a lot of countries are doing a similar thing as these countries, there’s a lot of authoritarians taking over all over the world. I think people should talk not only about the history or events in one country, but also talk about how other places are following in their footsteps and how we can prevent it from going forward where we can. Also, interestingly, when folks talk about how the USA is sliding into authoritarianism on HN, it’s often downvoted, while for other countries it’s treated as serious and obvious, so it’s hard for Americans to see people agree that Turkey is doing bad stuff but they deny the same for America. Lessons need to be shared so we can all do better together, I think.
- john-radio 2y ago
  Isn't it always?
  - sigmoid10 2y ago
    Turkey has a rich history of coups. But when secular parts of the armed forces tried to oust Erdogan's regime by force in 2016, he didn't just fight them off but used the event as a justification to clean house and prevent these things altogether. He's pretty much following Putin's approach at solidifying his position. So 2016 was essentially the death blow to their democracy.
    - johnthewise 2y ago
      2016 wasn't secular coup. the last of few secular ones were in 2000s, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-memorandum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-memorandum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Justice_and_Development_Party_closure_trial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Justice_and_Development_P...
      - sigmoid10 2y ago
        2016 was specifically because of Erdogan's anti-secular movements: https://www.haber3.com/guncel/asker-trt-binasinda-iste-039darbe039-bildirisi-haberi-4401863 https://www.haber3.com/guncel/asker-trt-binasinda-iste-039da...
- gunian 2y ago
  [dead]
- EasyMark 2y ago
  Much like America is taking a hit these days, only judges seem to care or be able to do anything. I was just having a bar discussion during happy hour how America is becoming a fascist country more in line with the way Turkey and India are, rather than Russia or Venezuela (more sudden)
throwaway3485t8 2y ago
Given that people are being arrested for the most stupid reasons in Turkey, I can understand people not wanting to put their life on the line. 10 years ago I could have seen people protesting (see Gezi park protests) but now ? Not really. What's worse is that somehow plenty of Turk are fine with it. Inflation above 100% for long time, crappy salaries, people can't even afford rents but the leader's party still get about 30% of the votes. This is also a lesson for fellow Americans: don't think that just because Trump won't be able to lower the price of the eggs, will make rural voters miserable and make America a worse place means that at the next election you get rid of him. Once the environment is set up properly, anything can be justified, and with the right mindset the voter will accept any bullshit. Remember, "we always have been at war with Eastasia"
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- labster 2y ago
  Well, damn, that was my strategy to deal with Trump, waiting on the economy. I guess it’s all joever for American democracy. 250 years was a pretty good run all things considered.
  - cko 2y ago
    We had Japanese internment camps, Jim Crowe laws and McCarthyism and survived. Let's not write off American democracy just yet.
    - actionfromafar 2y ago
      These things were despicable but not an attack on the system itself. This time is different. I haven’t written American democracy off yet, but I wouldn’t bet the farm.
      - spiderfarmer 2y ago
        Even if democracy survives this time round, the people who enabled its demise thus far won’t go anywhere. There are so many angry, misinformed and potentially violent fringe groups with easy access to weapons, it’s truly disgusting. And they’ll feel emboldened by how easy the fabric of society seems to come apart. I have seen the culture on HN change in the ten years I have been a member. The people who defend Trump and his policies now would never have done so 10 years ago. It goes to show that the USA we remember doesn’t seem to exist anymore.
throwaind29k 2y ago
The more fundamental question is why a degree should be necessary to run for President. US does not require one for example.
- eru 2y ago
  The US requires a fairly high minimum age and for someone to be born American. Those requirements seem also a bit silly and stand in the way of voters expressing their wishes. For some fun times, have a look at the requirements to become president in Singapore. Basically, you either have to have been a senior civil servant before or the CEO of a large and profitable company. https://www.eld.gov.sg/candidate_presidential_qualify.html https://www.eld.gov.sg/candidate_presidential_qualify.html Singapore's president is a figurehead, so it doesn't matter too much.
  - dylan604 2y ago
    Having someone born in the country they are looking to lead seems silly to you? With that restriction, it has taken quite some time for a foreign adversary to have a puppet elected vs just shipping in some carpet bagger. Having a minimum age also allows for some decent life experience. After all, 35 years old is not that old.
    - gunian 2y ago
      Singapore seems to be doing fine without that requirement is what that comment said i think talking about different things
      - eru 2y ago
        Singapore has lots of other crazy requirements, though.
    - BrandoElFollito 2y ago
      For me "botn in the country" or "born a citizen of the country" does not mean much. This is like assuming that your birth status makes the person. Think minarchy, castes, ... You can be a naturalized citizen in live with your country, or a born citizen plain stupid and with worst interests in mind.
petre 2y ago
It will probably end up like those Gezi Patk protests with people dead and injured.

I am from Turkey and this really concerns me. If we don't protest this in the streets and fight back I am afraid we don't have any kind of law anymore.

by aiono 2y ago

I am from Turkey and this really concerns me. If we don't protest this in the streets and fight back I am afraid we don't have any kind of law anymore.

fracus 2y ago

Isn't this just the latest cut in your democracy's death by a thousand cuts?

HenryBemis 2y ago
I'd add also a thousand bullets, a thousand tortures, a thousand rapes, and a thousand days in prison for having a different opinion and expressing it.
bamboozled 2y ago
Seems like for much of the world?
- pstuart 2y ago
  Sadly, yes. I'm not sure what it will take to make people realize that a "strong man" is not the answer.
  - bamboozled 2y ago
    I doubt, but wonder if it's a generational thing, like would the twenty somethings be into strongmen when they're the majority of voters? I used to think the younger generation were a bit different but I've seen them pretty much obsess over MAGA, Joe Rogan et al. So more of the same I guess?
    - jajko 2y ago
      Human nature goes deep and doesnt change much across generations
    - Lanolderen 2y ago
      Essentially, young people want change, old people want stability. The right in the US has been advertising in the direction of change so it's liked for it. Especially by young people doomscrolling about "property prices now vs before" and cartelgram/liveleakesque videos. Once you get older you get a stable job, family, etc so you're less nervous about life and have better things to do than to get your adrenaline up watching people get murdered. Written from the perspective of someone who's started to get comfortable in life. Now I'm quite mild politically but I can go more right short term if I spend some time watching people get butchered by gangs/nutcases. Some of my friends still watch a lot of that and it definitely makes you very much like having a "capacity for violence". It's one of those things that's IMO good in moderation, since some paranoia is healthy but off the deep end it turns into "get them before they get me"esque genocidal ideas and scrolling the nazi army webm montages and gore threads on /gif/ / /b/ at 2AM.
      - hulitu 2y ago
        > Essentially, young people want change, old people want stability Old people have learned that change always means worse. Corruption is so big that it isn't really matter who is in power, the system functions as intended. (All over the world)
        Lanolderen 2y ago
        Not necessarily worse IMO but that it's a painful process for mediocre improvements.
chgs 2y ago
[flagged]
- alephnerd 2y ago
  It's a disrepectful comparison for Turkish nationals working hard to build democratic institutions. The US hasn't had the same history of coups, insurgencies, pogroms, massacres, censorship, corruption, etc. Making everything about the US is just rude.
  - hackyhacky 2y ago
    Why is it rude? Do you think Americans haven't worked hard to build democratic institutions?
    - Teever 2y ago
      It's not that it's rude per se, it's that users of this site who aren't from the US find it irksome when a subject that isn't the US comes up and someone invariably pivots it to talk about the US and current events. It's okay to talk about stuff that isn't contemporary American politics or even sit the conversation out and observe others talking about non American subjects. Not everything has to be about America.
      - ok_dad 2y ago
        Unfortunately, a lot of countries are doing a similar thing as these countries, there’s a lot of authoritarians taking over all over the world. I think people should talk not only about the history or events in one country, but also talk about how other places are following in their footsteps and how we can prevent it from going forward where we can. Also, interestingly, when folks talk about how the USA is sliding into authoritarianism on HN, it’s often downvoted, while for other countries it’s treated as serious and obvious, so it’s hard for Americans to see people agree that Turkey is doing bad stuff but they deny the same for America. Lessons need to be shared so we can all do better together, I think.
john-radio 2y ago
Isn't it always?
- sigmoid10 2y ago
  Turkey has a rich history of coups. But when secular parts of the armed forces tried to oust Erdogan's regime by force in 2016, he didn't just fight them off but used the event as a justification to clean house and prevent these things altogether. He's pretty much following Putin's approach at solidifying his position. So 2016 was essentially the death blow to their democracy.
  - johnthewise 2y ago
    2016 wasn't secular coup. the last of few secular ones were in 2000s, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-memorandum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-memorandum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Justice_and_Development_Party_closure_trial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Justice_and_Development_P...
    - sigmoid10 2y ago
      2016 was specifically because of Erdogan's anti-secular movements: https://www.haber3.com/guncel/asker-trt-binasinda-iste-039darbe039-bildirisi-haberi-4401863 https://www.haber3.com/guncel/asker-trt-binasinda-iste-039da...
gunian 2y ago
[dead]
EasyMark 2y ago
Much like America is taking a hit these days, only judges seem to care or be able to do anything. I was just having a bar discussion during happy hour how America is becoming a fascist country more in line with the way Turkey and India are, rather than Russia or Venezuela (more sudden)

throwaway3485t8 2y ago

Given that people are being arrested for the most stupid reasons in Turkey, I can understand people not wanting to put their life on the line. 10 years ago I could have seen people protesting (see Gezi park protests) but now ? Not really. What's worse is that somehow plenty of Turk are fine with it. Inflation above 100% for long time, crappy salaries, people can't even afford rents but the leader's party still get about 30% of the votes. This is also a lesson for fellow Americans: don't think that just because Trump won't be able to lower the price of the eggs, will make rural voters miserable and make America a worse place means that at the next election you get rid of him. Once the environment is set up properly, anything can be justified, and with the right mindset the voter will accept any bullshit. Remember, "we always have been at war with Eastasia"

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
labster 2y ago
Well, damn, that was my strategy to deal with Trump, waiting on the economy. I guess it’s all joever for American democracy. 250 years was a pretty good run all things considered.
- cko 2y ago
  We had Japanese internment camps, Jim Crowe laws and McCarthyism and survived. Let's not write off American democracy just yet.
  - actionfromafar 2y ago
    These things were despicable but not an attack on the system itself. This time is different. I haven’t written American democracy off yet, but I wouldn’t bet the farm.
    - spiderfarmer 2y ago
      Even if democracy survives this time round, the people who enabled its demise thus far won’t go anywhere. There are so many angry, misinformed and potentially violent fringe groups with easy access to weapons, it’s truly disgusting. And they’ll feel emboldened by how easy the fabric of society seems to come apart. I have seen the culture on HN change in the ten years I have been a member. The people who defend Trump and his policies now would never have done so 10 years ago. It goes to show that the USA we remember doesn’t seem to exist anymore.

throwaind29k 2y ago

The more fundamental question is why a degree should be necessary to run for President. US does not require one for example.

eru 2y ago
The US requires a fairly high minimum age and for someone to be born American. Those requirements seem also a bit silly and stand in the way of voters expressing their wishes. For some fun times, have a look at the requirements to become president in Singapore. Basically, you either have to have been a senior civil servant before or the CEO of a large and profitable company. https://www.eld.gov.sg/candidate_presidential_qualify.html https://www.eld.gov.sg/candidate_presidential_qualify.html Singapore's president is a figurehead, so it doesn't matter too much.
- dylan604 2y ago
  Having someone born in the country they are looking to lead seems silly to you? With that restriction, it has taken quite some time for a foreign adversary to have a puppet elected vs just shipping in some carpet bagger. Having a minimum age also allows for some decent life experience. After all, 35 years old is not that old.
  - gunian 2y ago
    Singapore seems to be doing fine without that requirement is what that comment said i think talking about different things
    - eru 2y ago
      Singapore has lots of other crazy requirements, though.
  - BrandoElFollito 2y ago
    For me "botn in the country" or "born a citizen of the country" does not mean much. This is like assuming that your birth status makes the person. Think minarchy, castes, ... You can be a naturalized citizen in live with your country, or a born citizen plain stupid and with worst interests in mind.

petre 2y ago

It will probably end up like those Gezi Patk protests with people dead and injured.