7 ms·

It’s almost enough to make me try Linux on the desktop again.

by NotYourLawyer 2y ago

agildehaus 2y ago
Do it. Quite a bit has improved in the last few years and I've entirely replaced Windows.
- NotYourLawyer 2y ago
  Ehhh but I just bought one of the M4 Mac minis. And it’s pretty nice.
  - dnzm 2y ago
    Keep an eye on [Asahi Linux](https://asahilinux.org/ https://asahilinux.org/), then. A cursory glance shows Me support not being complete yet, but I assume it will be in time (and the missing stuff may or may not be a show stopper for you).
  - thfuran 2y ago
    Is asahi expected to work on them soon, or is it still a few Ms behind?
gmassman 2y ago
It’s always the year of the linux desktop!
inetknght 2y ago
I run Linux on my personal computers. Word of warning: businesses, possibly including your employer, may consider you to be a robot, or a terrorist, or tell you to install Windows, or tell you to use your phone, or tell you that you have no right to privacy. I recently had to go through a background check for a prospective employer. The background check website wouldn't even load. The support agent told me that it's a Firefox problem and told me that I needed to open the website on Chrome or Edge or on my phone, and that the website is working "perfectly". Alas, it worked fine with Firefox on Linux, as long as the user-agent reported that it's actually Chrome and Windows. Yeah the website is indeed working "perfectly": perfectly enough to block employment of people who care about privacy.
- giancarlostoro 2y ago
  I keep one Windows or Mac around always for work specific things, if Linux is unsupported I can switch. Heck you could get a free Windows dev VM from Microsoft (they rotate them out every 3 months).
  - inetknght 2y ago
    > Heck you could get a free Windows dev VM from Microsoft You gotta accept Microsoft's licenses and EULAs and crap like that. Plus it's still spyware. No thanks
    - swagmoney1606 2y ago
      Also the VM install images have been pulled off of their page since october... https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/downloads/virtual-machines/ https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/downloads/virt... >Due to ongoing technical issues, as of October 23, 2024, downloads are temporarily unavailable. They are morons.
      - giancarlostoro 2y ago
        This happened once before, they always wind up returning, hopefully that's the case. Maybe someday ReactOS will be usable fully as a Windows VM OS.
  - 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
    It's not just about us, it's about less-technical people who might adopt libre operating systems if they're easy to use, but not if web services intentionally refuse to do business with them.
    - inetknght 2y ago
      > but not if web services intentionally refuse to do business with them. And in many ways, I'd be fine with that if they'd be up-front and honest about it. Alas, Microsoft certainly is not. Cloudflare is not either. Many of these services just sit there and pretend like they're loading without showing any sort of error indication. Much like a tarpit but it's malicious on the business side and with little to no recourse on the real human side.
giancarlostoro 2y ago
I was on POP for two years now, I switched to an Arch derivative called EndeavourOS which makes installing Arch a breeze. I did discover someone working on an Atomic version of Arch (where the core OS is frozen for a set period of time, to ensure total stability, and nothing can break during this window) called Arkane Linux, which I might try. I have no intention of returning to Windows.
darkwater 2y ago
I was just forced to migrate to MacOS in my new job and I can't really understand developers saying that Linux is not usable as a desktop machine. For me, it's the other way round.
- __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
  MacOS is indeed pretty bonkers. - Things that should be system settings are instead apps (amphetamine, rectangle). - There's no way to move focus around directionally between windows with a keyboard. - "Open file" windows give you nowhere to paste a path (tip: cmd + shift + g summons a path prompt). - Full screen windows now must be managed like they've just become an entire workspace, and the underlying app may or may not support the un-full-screen button. - The error messages don't give you enough info to actually act on them (apparently "Docker" will damage my computer, and I should uninstall it, but it won't give me a path to the offending file, so I don't know how to install it, also this warning returns if I close it so it's just been hanging around for months.) My strategy for maintaining sanity is to do as much as possible through zellij (a terminal multiplexer), that way I can use the same muscle memory on Linux as well. As for the rest, I just try to ignore it.
  - Grimblewald 2y ago
    I have found the same for mac, it has all the downsides of windows, and all the downsides of Linux, and almost no upsides of it's own. Sure the hardware is doing plenty of nice things hard to find elsewhere, but the OS is so god-damn hostile to the kinds of people who can appreciate the hardware that it kind of defeats the purpose.
    - __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
      Oh I wouldn't go so far as "all the downsides of Windows". So far Apple has not been targeting me with a phishing campaign designed to get me to use their browser of choice. Apple is infuriating in rather different ways.
impossiblefork 2y ago
What was the problem? I feel that it just works.
SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
I did. And am glad. I installed a copy of Windows 11 the other day for a new machine and it was INFURIATING. In order to install without internet or an offline account, you MUST know a voodoo command and how to enter it. Used to be their dark pattern was at least on the screen, they’re out of their damn minds now. Everyone has their breaking point with Microsoft, I hit mine and it’s been nothing but good for me.
pidgeon_lover 2y ago
I would use Linux if it supported offline installers. As is, I'll be sticking with heavily tweaked Windows to work with my several HDDs full of old software, and avoid the Linux headaches of repos disappearing, deciding between Snap/Appimage/DEB and general incompatibility with office documents, industrial tooling and Adobe software. I'll only use Linux where I'm paid to at work. Thanks to Linux Torvalds' terrible software distribution model, I've had to do black magic to work around Anon's deprecation of Debian/Raspbian Stretch on which our industrial network gateways run.
- TsiCClawOfLight 2y ago
  You can easily store (parts or complete copies of) the repos locally. It's really convenient.

It’s almost enough to make me try Linux on the desktop again.

agildehaus 2y ago

Do it. Quite a bit has improved in the last few years and I've entirely replaced Windows.

NotYourLawyer 2y ago
Ehhh but I just bought one of the M4 Mac minis. And it’s pretty nice.
- dnzm 2y ago
  Keep an eye on [Asahi Linux](https://asahilinux.org/ https://asahilinux.org/), then. A cursory glance shows Me support not being complete yet, but I assume it will be in time (and the missing stuff may or may not be a show stopper for you).
- thfuran 2y ago
  Is asahi expected to work on them soon, or is it still a few Ms behind?

gmassman 2y ago

It’s always the year of the linux desktop!

inetknght 2y ago

I run Linux on my personal computers. Word of warning: businesses, possibly including your employer, may consider you to be a robot, or a terrorist, or tell you to install Windows, or tell you to use your phone, or tell you that you have no right to privacy. I recently had to go through a background check for a prospective employer. The background check website wouldn't even load. The support agent told me that it's a Firefox problem and told me that I needed to open the website on Chrome or Edge or on my phone, and that the website is working "perfectly". Alas, it worked fine with Firefox on Linux, as long as the user-agent reported that it's actually Chrome and Windows. Yeah the website is indeed working "perfectly": perfectly enough to block employment of people who care about privacy.

giancarlostoro 2y ago
I keep one Windows or Mac around always for work specific things, if Linux is unsupported I can switch. Heck you could get a free Windows dev VM from Microsoft (they rotate them out every 3 months).
- inetknght 2y ago
  > Heck you could get a free Windows dev VM from Microsoft You gotta accept Microsoft's licenses and EULAs and crap like that. Plus it's still spyware. No thanks
  - swagmoney1606 2y ago
    Also the VM install images have been pulled off of their page since october... https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/downloads/virtual-machines/ https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/downloads/virt... >Due to ongoing technical issues, as of October 23, 2024, downloads are temporarily unavailable. They are morons.
    - giancarlostoro 2y ago
      This happened once before, they always wind up returning, hopefully that's the case. Maybe someday ReactOS will be usable fully as a Windows VM OS.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
  It's not just about us, it's about less-technical people who might adopt libre operating systems if they're easy to use, but not if web services intentionally refuse to do business with them.
  - inetknght 2y ago
    > but not if web services intentionally refuse to do business with them. And in many ways, I'd be fine with that if they'd be up-front and honest about it. Alas, Microsoft certainly is not. Cloudflare is not either. Many of these services just sit there and pretend like they're loading without showing any sort of error indication. Much like a tarpit but it's malicious on the business side and with little to no recourse on the real human side.

giancarlostoro 2y ago

I was on POP for two years now, I switched to an Arch derivative called EndeavourOS which makes installing Arch a breeze. I did discover someone working on an Atomic version of Arch (where the core OS is frozen for a set period of time, to ensure total stability, and nothing can break during this window) called Arkane Linux, which I might try. I have no intention of returning to Windows.

darkwater 2y ago

I was just forced to migrate to MacOS in my new job and I can't really understand developers saying that Linux is not usable as a desktop machine. For me, it's the other way round.

__MatrixMan__ 2y ago
MacOS is indeed pretty bonkers. - Things that should be system settings are instead apps (amphetamine, rectangle). - There's no way to move focus around directionally between windows with a keyboard. - "Open file" windows give you nowhere to paste a path (tip: cmd + shift + g summons a path prompt). - Full screen windows now must be managed like they've just become an entire workspace, and the underlying app may or may not support the un-full-screen button. - The error messages don't give you enough info to actually act on them (apparently "Docker" will damage my computer, and I should uninstall it, but it won't give me a path to the offending file, so I don't know how to install it, also this warning returns if I close it so it's just been hanging around for months.) My strategy for maintaining sanity is to do as much as possible through zellij (a terminal multiplexer), that way I can use the same muscle memory on Linux as well. As for the rest, I just try to ignore it.
- Grimblewald 2y ago
  I have found the same for mac, it has all the downsides of windows, and all the downsides of Linux, and almost no upsides of it's own. Sure the hardware is doing plenty of nice things hard to find elsewhere, but the OS is so god-damn hostile to the kinds of people who can appreciate the hardware that it kind of defeats the purpose.
  - __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
    Oh I wouldn't go so far as "all the downsides of Windows". So far Apple has not been targeting me with a phishing campaign designed to get me to use their browser of choice. Apple is infuriating in rather different ways.

impossiblefork 2y ago

What was the problem? I feel that it just works.

SV_BubbleTime 2y ago

I did. And am glad. I installed a copy of Windows 11 the other day for a new machine and it was INFURIATING. In order to install without internet or an offline account, you MUST know a voodoo command and how to enter it. Used to be their dark pattern was at least on the screen, they’re out of their damn minds now. Everyone has their breaking point with Microsoft, I hit mine and it’s been nothing but good for me.

pidgeon_lover 2y ago

I would use Linux if it supported offline installers. As is, I'll be sticking with heavily tweaked Windows to work with my several HDDs full of old software, and avoid the Linux headaches of repos disappearing, deciding between Snap/Appimage/DEB and general incompatibility with office documents, industrial tooling and Adobe software. I'll only use Linux where I'm paid to at work. Thanks to Linux Torvalds' terrible software distribution model, I've had to do black magic to work around Anon's deprecation of Debian/Raspbian Stretch on which our industrial network gateways run.

TsiCClawOfLight 2y ago
You can easily store (parts or complete copies of) the repos locally. It's really convenient.