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I've noticed since getting a new mac, that on-device dictation is no longer possible, a modal pops up forcing you to hit agree in order to get dictation. Never

I've noticed since getting a new mac, that on-device dictation is no longer possible, a modal pops up forcing you to hit agree in order to get dictation. Never clicking that. The direction of major operating systems neutering themselves in favour of deep service integration does not fill one with hope

NotYourLawyer 2y ago
It’s almost enough to make me try Linux on the desktop again.
- agildehaus 2y ago
  Do it. Quite a bit has improved in the last few years and I've entirely replaced Windows.
  - NotYourLawyer 2y ago
    Ehhh but I just bought one of the M4 Mac minis. And it’s pretty nice.
    - dnzm 2y ago
      Keep an eye on [Asahi Linux](https://asahilinux.org/ https://asahilinux.org/), then. A cursory glance shows Me support not being complete yet, but I assume it will be in time (and the missing stuff may or may not be a show stopper for you).
    - thfuran 2y ago
      Is asahi expected to work on them soon, or is it still a few Ms behind?
- gmassman 2y ago
  It’s always the year of the linux desktop!
- inetknght 2y ago
  I run Linux on my personal computers. Word of warning: businesses, possibly including your employer, may consider you to be a robot, or a terrorist, or tell you to install Windows, or tell you to use your phone, or tell you that you have no right to privacy. I recently had to go through a background check for a prospective employer. The background check website wouldn't even load. The support agent told me that it's a Firefox problem and told me that I needed to open the website on Chrome or Edge or on my phone, and that the website is working "perfectly". Alas, it worked fine with Firefox on Linux, as long as the user-agent reported that it's actually Chrome and Windows. Yeah the website is indeed working "perfectly": perfectly enough to block employment of people who care about privacy.
  - giancarlostoro 2y ago
    I keep one Windows or Mac around always for work specific things, if Linux is unsupported I can switch. Heck you could get a free Windows dev VM from Microsoft (they rotate them out every 3 months).
    - inetknght 2y ago
      > Heck you could get a free Windows dev VM from Microsoft You gotta accept Microsoft's licenses and EULAs and crap like that. Plus it's still spyware. No thanks
      - swagmoney1606 2y ago
        Also the VM install images have been pulled off of their page since october... https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/downloads/virtual-machines/ https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/downloads/virt... >Due to ongoing technical issues, as of October 23, 2024, downloads are temporarily unavailable. They are morons.
        giancarlostoro 2y ago
        This happened once before, they always wind up returning, hopefully that's the case. Maybe someday ReactOS will be usable fully as a Windows VM OS.
- giancarlostoro 2y ago
  I was on POP for two years now, I switched to an Arch derivative called EndeavourOS which makes installing Arch a breeze. I did discover someone working on an Atomic version of Arch (where the core OS is frozen for a set period of time, to ensure total stability, and nothing can break during this window) called Arkane Linux, which I might try. I have no intention of returning to Windows.
- darkwater 2y ago
  I was just forced to migrate to MacOS in my new job and I can't really understand developers saying that Linux is not usable as a desktop machine. For me, it's the other way round.
  - __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
    MacOS is indeed pretty bonkers. - Things that should be system settings are instead apps (amphetamine, rectangle). - There's no way to move focus around directionally between windows with a keyboard. - "Open file" windows give you nowhere to paste a path (tip: cmd + shift + g summons a path prompt). - Full screen windows now must be managed like they've just become an entire workspace, and the underlying app may or may not support the un-full-screen button. - The error messages don't give you enough info to actually act on them (apparently "Docker" will damage my computer, and I should uninstall it, but it won't give me a path to the offending file, so I don't know how to install it, also this warning returns if I close it so it's just been hanging around for months.) My strategy for maintaining sanity is to do as much as possible through zellij (a terminal multiplexer), that way I can use the same muscle memory on Linux as well. As for the rest, I just try to ignore it.
    - Grimblewald 2y ago
      I have found the same for mac, it has all the downsides of windows, and all the downsides of Linux, and almost no upsides of it's own. Sure the hardware is doing plenty of nice things hard to find elsewhere, but the OS is so god-damn hostile to the kinds of people who can appreciate the hardware that it kind of defeats the purpose.
      - __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
        Oh I wouldn't go so far as "all the downsides of Windows". So far Apple has not been targeting me with a phishing campaign designed to get me to use their browser of choice. Apple is infuriating in rather different ways.
- impossiblefork 2y ago
  What was the problem? I feel that it just works.
- SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
  I did. And am glad. I installed a copy of Windows 11 the other day for a new machine and it was INFURIATING. In order to install without internet or an offline account, you MUST know a voodoo command and how to enter it. Used to be their dark pattern was at least on the screen, they’re out of their damn minds now. Everyone has their breaking point with Microsoft, I hit mine and it’s been nothing but good for me.
- pidgeon_lover 2y ago
  I would use Linux if it supported offline installers. As is, I'll be sticking with heavily tweaked Windows to work with my several HDDs full of old software, and avoid the Linux headaches of repos disappearing, deciding between Snap/Appimage/DEB and general incompatibility with office documents, industrial tooling and Adobe software. I'll only use Linux where I'm paid to at work. Thanks to Linux Torvalds' terrible software distribution model, I've had to do black magic to work around Anon's deprecation of Debian/Raspbian Stretch on which our industrial network gateways run.
  - TsiCClawOfLight 2y ago
    You can easily store (parts or complete copies of) the repos locally. It's really convenient.
greenavocado 2y ago
Run whisper locally
- replete 2y ago
  I do, but it's nowhere near as convenient as double tapping Fn anywhere there is editable text and speaking. It also requires much more system resources. What interface do you use for using local whisper?
crazygringo 2y ago
That's not true -- on-device dictation works just fine. You can verify for yourself by turning off WiFi/Internet and dictation works identically. As long as you have a modern enough Mac that supports local dictation, of course. (Older Macs were only cloud dictation, I remember.) The popup on my MacBook says specifically: > When you use Dictation, your device will indicate in Keyboard Settings if your audio and transcripts are processed on your device and not sent to Apple servers. Otherwise, the things you dictate are sent to and processed on the server, but will not be stored unless you opt in to Improve Siri and Dictation.
- re 2y ago
  > your device will indicate in Keyboard Settings if your audio and transcripts are processed on your device and not sent to Apple servers I have a reasonably recent (<2yo) MBP, which feels like it ought to be "modern enough", and in Keyboard Settings, it says "Dictation sends information like your voice input, contacts, and location to Apple to process your requests." It doesn't say anything about processing happening on my device. Yes, off-line dictation does work for me (with Wi-Fi turned off), but I'm curious under what conditions Keyboard Settings would say something about transcripts not being sent to Apple.
  - replete 2y ago
    Exactly, so even if it does work offline, I cannot use it without agreeing to send voice data to Apple.
  - DidYaWipe 2y ago
    Not to mention that this is an absurd assurance. "Your device will indicate in Keyboard Settings?" So you're supposed to run and look at that for every voice command, to see if THIS one is being sent up? What does this even mean?
- SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
  > but will not be stored Well, that’s impossible though. Of course it is stored as temporarily as that may be. So the statement already has a logical failure. Possession for processing is still storage. So the debate is then “how long do we store something until we have to call it “storage””. And further, they may delete your voice, but the log of the thing you asked for I think is unlikely to go away. I like Apple as at least they try and place the privacy field. But I think this wording is a bit weasely.
danpalmer 2y ago
> a modal pops up forcing you to hit agree in order to get dictation Are you sure this isn't the local model download prompt? The first time you use it, it does need to download some content to make that work.
- replete 2y ago
  --- Do you want to enable Dictation? When you dictate text, information like your voice input and contact names are sent to Apple to help your Mac recognise what you’re saying. [Enable] Dictation Privacy (a policy) [Cancel] ---
waterTanuki 2y ago
Aside from the what the modal actually says (mine doesn't say anything about "sending" info, and I have a 2023 M2 MBP) I don't really think it's fair to put Apple in the same category as Amazon when it comes to sending data to the cloud, because they actually have more of a financial incentive to keep your data private than selling it to the highest bidder. I also highly doubt that they will somehow later down the line magically change their minds given the millions (maybe over a billion at this point) of dollars invested in things like private cloud compute (1) and challenging the U.K. government (2) in court over E2E cloud backups. (1) https://security.apple.com/blog/private-cloud-compute/ https://security.apple.com/blog/private-cloud-compute/ (2) https://www.reuters.com/technology/court-hearing-reported-be-apples-appeal-against-uk-order-held-secret-2025-03-14/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/court-hearing-reported-be...
- replete 2y ago
  The modal I have says exactly this: --- Do you want to enable Dictation? When you dictate text, information like your voice input and contact names are sent to Apple to help your Mac recognise what you’re saying. [Enable] Dictation Privacy (a policy) [Cancel] --- I think it is entirely fair to put Apple in this category, because they have effectively disabled offline dictation for me except if I agree to sent my voice data to Apple. I have used this offline dictation feature for years by the way

NotYourLawyer 2y ago

It’s almost enough to make me try Linux on the desktop again.

agildehaus 2y ago
Do it. Quite a bit has improved in the last few years and I've entirely replaced Windows.
- NotYourLawyer 2y ago
  Ehhh but I just bought one of the M4 Mac minis. And it’s pretty nice.
  - dnzm 2y ago
    Keep an eye on [Asahi Linux](https://asahilinux.org/ https://asahilinux.org/), then. A cursory glance shows Me support not being complete yet, but I assume it will be in time (and the missing stuff may or may not be a show stopper for you).
  - thfuran 2y ago
    Is asahi expected to work on them soon, or is it still a few Ms behind?
gmassman 2y ago
It’s always the year of the linux desktop!
inetknght 2y ago
I run Linux on my personal computers. Word of warning: businesses, possibly including your employer, may consider you to be a robot, or a terrorist, or tell you to install Windows, or tell you to use your phone, or tell you that you have no right to privacy. I recently had to go through a background check for a prospective employer. The background check website wouldn't even load. The support agent told me that it's a Firefox problem and told me that I needed to open the website on Chrome or Edge or on my phone, and that the website is working "perfectly". Alas, it worked fine with Firefox on Linux, as long as the user-agent reported that it's actually Chrome and Windows. Yeah the website is indeed working "perfectly": perfectly enough to block employment of people who care about privacy.
- giancarlostoro 2y ago
  I keep one Windows or Mac around always for work specific things, if Linux is unsupported I can switch. Heck you could get a free Windows dev VM from Microsoft (they rotate them out every 3 months).
  - inetknght 2y ago
    > Heck you could get a free Windows dev VM from Microsoft You gotta accept Microsoft's licenses and EULAs and crap like that. Plus it's still spyware. No thanks
    - swagmoney1606 2y ago
      Also the VM install images have been pulled off of their page since october... https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/downloads/virtual-machines/ https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/downloads/virt... >Due to ongoing technical issues, as of October 23, 2024, downloads are temporarily unavailable. They are morons.
      - giancarlostoro 2y ago
        This happened once before, they always wind up returning, hopefully that's the case. Maybe someday ReactOS will be usable fully as a Windows VM OS.
giancarlostoro 2y ago
I was on POP for two years now, I switched to an Arch derivative called EndeavourOS which makes installing Arch a breeze. I did discover someone working on an Atomic version of Arch (where the core OS is frozen for a set period of time, to ensure total stability, and nothing can break during this window) called Arkane Linux, which I might try. I have no intention of returning to Windows.
darkwater 2y ago
I was just forced to migrate to MacOS in my new job and I can't really understand developers saying that Linux is not usable as a desktop machine. For me, it's the other way round.
- __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
  MacOS is indeed pretty bonkers. - Things that should be system settings are instead apps (amphetamine, rectangle). - There's no way to move focus around directionally between windows with a keyboard. - "Open file" windows give you nowhere to paste a path (tip: cmd + shift + g summons a path prompt). - Full screen windows now must be managed like they've just become an entire workspace, and the underlying app may or may not support the un-full-screen button. - The error messages don't give you enough info to actually act on them (apparently "Docker" will damage my computer, and I should uninstall it, but it won't give me a path to the offending file, so I don't know how to install it, also this warning returns if I close it so it's just been hanging around for months.) My strategy for maintaining sanity is to do as much as possible through zellij (a terminal multiplexer), that way I can use the same muscle memory on Linux as well. As for the rest, I just try to ignore it.
  - Grimblewald 2y ago
    I have found the same for mac, it has all the downsides of windows, and all the downsides of Linux, and almost no upsides of it's own. Sure the hardware is doing plenty of nice things hard to find elsewhere, but the OS is so god-damn hostile to the kinds of people who can appreciate the hardware that it kind of defeats the purpose.
    - __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
      Oh I wouldn't go so far as "all the downsides of Windows". So far Apple has not been targeting me with a phishing campaign designed to get me to use their browser of choice. Apple is infuriating in rather different ways.
impossiblefork 2y ago
What was the problem? I feel that it just works.
SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
I did. And am glad. I installed a copy of Windows 11 the other day for a new machine and it was INFURIATING. In order to install without internet or an offline account, you MUST know a voodoo command and how to enter it. Used to be their dark pattern was at least on the screen, they’re out of their damn minds now. Everyone has their breaking point with Microsoft, I hit mine and it’s been nothing but good for me.
pidgeon_lover 2y ago
I would use Linux if it supported offline installers. As is, I'll be sticking with heavily tweaked Windows to work with my several HDDs full of old software, and avoid the Linux headaches of repos disappearing, deciding between Snap/Appimage/DEB and general incompatibility with office documents, industrial tooling and Adobe software. I'll only use Linux where I'm paid to at work. Thanks to Linux Torvalds' terrible software distribution model, I've had to do black magic to work around Anon's deprecation of Debian/Raspbian Stretch on which our industrial network gateways run.
- TsiCClawOfLight 2y ago
  You can easily store (parts or complete copies of) the repos locally. It's really convenient.

greenavocado 2y ago

Run whisper locally

replete 2y ago
I do, but it's nowhere near as convenient as double tapping Fn anywhere there is editable text and speaking. It also requires much more system resources. What interface do you use for using local whisper?

crazygringo 2y ago

That's not true -- on-device dictation works just fine. You can verify for yourself by turning off WiFi/Internet and dictation works identically. As long as you have a modern enough Mac that supports local dictation, of course. (Older Macs were only cloud dictation, I remember.) The popup on my MacBook says specifically: > When you use Dictation, your device will indicate in Keyboard Settings if your audio and transcripts are processed on your device and not sent to Apple servers. Otherwise, the things you dictate are sent to and processed on the server, but will not be stored unless you opt in to Improve Siri and Dictation.

re 2y ago
> your device will indicate in Keyboard Settings if your audio and transcripts are processed on your device and not sent to Apple servers I have a reasonably recent (<2yo) MBP, which feels like it ought to be "modern enough", and in Keyboard Settings, it says "Dictation sends information like your voice input, contacts, and location to Apple to process your requests." It doesn't say anything about processing happening on my device. Yes, off-line dictation does work for me (with Wi-Fi turned off), but I'm curious under what conditions Keyboard Settings would say something about transcripts not being sent to Apple.
- replete 2y ago
  Exactly, so even if it does work offline, I cannot use it without agreeing to send voice data to Apple.
- DidYaWipe 2y ago
  Not to mention that this is an absurd assurance. "Your device will indicate in Keyboard Settings?" So you're supposed to run and look at that for every voice command, to see if THIS one is being sent up? What does this even mean?
SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
> but will not be stored Well, that’s impossible though. Of course it is stored as temporarily as that may be. So the statement already has a logical failure. Possession for processing is still storage. So the debate is then “how long do we store something until we have to call it “storage””. And further, they may delete your voice, but the log of the thing you asked for I think is unlikely to go away. I like Apple as at least they try and place the privacy field. But I think this wording is a bit weasely.

danpalmer 2y ago

> a modal pops up forcing you to hit agree in order to get dictation Are you sure this isn't the local model download prompt? The first time you use it, it does need to download some content to make that work.

replete 2y ago
--- Do you want to enable Dictation? When you dictate text, information like your voice input and contact names are sent to Apple to help your Mac recognise what you’re saying. [Enable] Dictation Privacy (a policy) [Cancel] ---

waterTanuki 2y ago

Aside from the what the modal actually says (mine doesn't say anything about "sending" info, and I have a 2023 M2 MBP) I don't really think it's fair to put Apple in the same category as Amazon when it comes to sending data to the cloud, because they actually have more of a financial incentive to keep your data private than selling it to the highest bidder. I also highly doubt that they will somehow later down the line magically change their minds given the millions (maybe over a billion at this point) of dollars invested in things like private cloud compute (1) and challenging the U.K. government (2) in court over E2E cloud backups. (1) https://security.apple.com/blog/private-cloud-compute/ https://security.apple.com/blog/private-cloud-compute/ (2) https://www.reuters.com/technology/court-hearing-reported-be-apples-appeal-against-uk-order-held-secret-2025-03-14/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/court-hearing-reported-be...

replete 2y ago
The modal I have says exactly this: --- Do you want to enable Dictation? When you dictate text, information like your voice input and contact names are sent to Apple to help your Mac recognise what you’re saying. [Enable] Dictation Privacy (a policy) [Cancel] --- I think it is entirely fair to put Apple in this category, because they have effectively disabled offline dictation for me except if I agree to sent my voice data to Apple. I have used this offline dictation feature for years by the way