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This is why people used to be paid time-and-a-half or even double-time for being on call. Ask your union to demand that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-an
by rwmj 2y ago
This is why people used to be paid time-and-a-half or even double-time for being on call. Ask your union to demand that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-and-a-half https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-and-a-half
- chgs 2y agoLast time I was on call it was a one hour payment per day, a 4 hour payment for answering the phone. That lasted about 3 months, just not acceptable.
- liveoneggs 2y agoFor nurses on-call is a tiny amount - $3/hr and then you get 1.5x if you actually get called in
- darrin 2y agoWhen I was at a small IT consulting shop ~15 years ago, this is roughly how it worked. We'd get paid 24x7 for a week on-call at minimum wage + 1.5x normal wage for any hours we had to log in.
- rwmj 2y agoPay is all about power. Nurses individually have little power (as they are replaceable), which is why unionising is good for them as the union gives them collective power. Software engineers are an interesting case; some have a great deal of domain-specific knowledge, giving them leverage over their employers. Many less so, and so a union could help. AI might change this equation too.
- 9rx 2y ago> Nurses individually have little power (as they are replaceable) Replaceable with what, exactly? The local ER is now having to close in the evening because they can't find sufficient nursing staff to keep it operating.
- bobthepanda 2y agoAt least locally the experience is that hospital admin has gone delulu by thinking they can replace hiring unionized nursing staff with much more expensive travel nurses
- phaer 2y agoHad this very same payment scheme as an SRE on call in Europe almost a decade ago.
- Omniusaspirer 2y agoIn most of the country, California unions have largely negotiated for .5x pay while on call making it quite popular.
- zild3d 2y agoSo for say a weekly on-call rotation you would be paid all 24 hours x 7 days at double rate? (- ~40) Also most tech companies don't have unions...
- rwmj 2y agoI don't believe it's physically possible for anyone to be available at 10 minutes notice for 168 hours straight. And if it's possible, it would be deeply unhealthy. But if they did achieve this, then yes they should be paid some very large amount of money. But that doesn't just happen -- pay isn't fair, it's about power. So a union can help to negotiate this, or ideally, better working conditions. > Also most tech companies don't have unions... In Europe, there are plenty of unions that cover tech people. I'm a member of Prospect (https://prospect.org.uk/ https://prospect.org.uk/).
- dontlaugh 2y agoAlso in the UK there’s https://utaw.tech/ https://utaw.tech/ and https://www.gameworkers.co.uk/ https://www.gameworkers.co.uk/ If there isn’t a union recognised in your workplace, you can build one yourself.
- uaas 2y agoUsually (always?) regular working hours are compensated as usual. Then there’s rate for standby periods and another rate for each (half) hour when you get pinged and start doing actual work.
- pjmlp 2y agoIn Europe most of the unions apply to the whole industry sector, what you do inside the building doesn't really matter.
- smitelli 2y agoFun fact: In the US the concept of time-and-a-half (also minimum wage, and not hiring child labor) was created by the Fair Labor Standards Act. Most tech employees are classified as "exempt" -- the FLSA and its protections doesn't apply to them.
- monknomo 2y agoI have never understood why 'computer' workers are exempt
- inetknght 2y agoFor the same reason that cashiers and burger flippers at fast food places have to sign non-compete clauses. It makes everything cheaper.
- doubled112 2y agoIn Ontario, Canada, IT workers are exempt from most labour laws too. Breaks, shift lengths, time off between shifts, etc. No overtime pay either. What this means is that on call is often "included in your salary" and good luck.
- gosub100 2y agoIf I had a union it would demand a bunch of unqualified people join my team (and get paid the same as me) and it would forbid me from doing certain things because,say, moving the computer or plugging in a cable is IT's job, whereas I'm SE. No thanks
- maccard 2y agoMy wife is part of a union and there’s none of that bullshit. However when her employer wanted to reduce costs across the board the union negotiated a shorter working week for everyone instead of a pay rise next year. They voted on it and accepted it with an overwhelming majority.
- 9rx 2y agoThe union offering "shrinkflation" as the way for the business to cut costs is an interesting framing. Your wife's union associates must hang out with grocery store executives.
- maccard 2y agoThe union spoke to its members and asked them what they wanted, negotiated it and voted on the final result. If that’s your take away from it I don’t know what to tell you.
- pjmlp 2y agoThat isn't how unions work, rather the usual US fearmongering of having them.
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- gosub100 2y agoIt just dawned on me how this argument runs perfectly parallel to religion if you point out intolerance, misogyny, or violence. It's always "those other people" that do the bad thing, and everyone only reaffirms their own system of worship. You could almost do a 1-1 find/replace of keywords and have the same argument.
- kazinator 2y agoAre you confusing overtime and on-call? Nobody's going to pay you 1.5 your hourly rate to just sit and wait until something happens. Is that really a thing? Now if you are called and spring into action, there may be time-and-a-half, if it's outside of your regular hours.