5 ms·

As a current SRE, and having worked in a small startup, this doesn't echo my experience at all. What the author describes is possible what we would call "on dut

As a current SRE, and having worked in a small startup, this doesn't echo my experience at all. What the author describes is possible what we would call "on duty" work, the grunt/maintenance work that comes with big software systems. It's not fun, and most companies/teams have friction getting this sort of work done. It's also however not how my SRE role is defined by any stretch. Our on-call work is much more about support during exceptional, somewhat rare circumstances.

gpi 2y ago
Agreed. Author's point of view seemed to have been influenced by their bad experience being part of the "on duty" work.
strken 2y ago
Yeah, I was similarly confused. My experience has been that on-call is a roster of who will keep their laptop with them on the weekend. Incidents involve little to no customer comms, because if anything more than a sentence once an hour is necessary then there's someone else on call to handle it. Support work is a necessary nuisance, but it's also not what on-call is meant to be.
coolgoose 2y ago
Sounds like normal support work not sure why that's affecting morale. It's normal in any kind of system to also cover issues. Yes, at some point you might want to have a customer support / customer success later to at least triage them, but that makes more sense as you get bigger not when you are small. I actually like having discussions on support days with customer. Yes, sometimes they're more annoying but it's direct feedback of people trying to use your software.
- cdnthrownawy39 2y ago
  My on call experience required that I had to be able to respond within 10 ten minutes of the call, with 24/7/365 coverage. But if I couldn't get the issue resolved remotely it meant that I'd have to be in the office lab to recreate and reproduce the problem. It effectively restricted my movements personal movements to stay within commute distance of my office, and that includes all my vacation time as well. That was the better part of a year in my life, continuous. Of constantly considering that every decision, every meal, every movement, every action at all times, and weighing it against the risk of impacting my ability to respond to a customer call. Maintaining an extended period of alertness for a threat that very rarely materializes is frustrating in many ways that I'd like very much to forget. I didn't burn out from it, but it was a major factor in my decision to resign from that company. Obviously people out there that can handle this lifestyle, but I couldn't. And frankly I'm quite content to never try again.
  - anal_reactor 2y ago
    I don't understand why on-call is normal. It's a huge mental burden on employees, which is especially an important issue in modern times of widespread mental issues, just so that some shitty mobile app can be available 24/7/365. If your business is important enough to have on-call, then you should have dedicated employees covering night shifts and nothing else, effectively limiting it to someone's office hours, effectively removing on-call. I think that there should be laws against on-call.
    - bayindirh 2y ago
      It's similar to using Electron to develop a software: Create quickly, offload the inefficiencies to the users' computers, so the developer can be comfy, and the development can be cheap. When you have on-call like this, you offload your expenses to your employee's life and mental health, and it's cheaper on the paper, for the short term. Then your company sinks as people starts leave, and the managers ask "Why?".
    - SpicyLemonZest 2y ago
      > If your business is important enough to have on-call, then you should have dedicated employees covering night shifts and nothing else, effectively limiting it to someone's office hours, effectively removing on-call. Easy to say when you envision it as someone's office hours and not your office hours. If my employer gave me a choice between a normal shift plus oncall or a night shift with no oncall, I'd pick the on-call in a heartbeat.
      - anal_reactor 2y ago
        Night shift fan here
  - baq 2y ago
    You should be paid extra for all that time and indeed there are countries with legal frameworks which require an employer to pay the employee if their personal life outside of working hours is in any way constrained. If you are a contractor, always put limits for this kind of extra services.

gpi 2y ago

Agreed. Author's point of view seemed to have been influenced by their bad experience being part of the "on duty" work.

strken 2y ago

Yeah, I was similarly confused. My experience has been that on-call is a roster of who will keep their laptop with them on the weekend. Incidents involve little to no customer comms, because if anything more than a sentence once an hour is necessary then there's someone else on call to handle it. Support work is a necessary nuisance, but it's also not what on-call is meant to be.

coolgoose 2y ago

Sounds like normal support work not sure why that's affecting morale. It's normal in any kind of system to also cover issues. Yes, at some point you might want to have a customer support / customer success later to at least triage them, but that makes more sense as you get bigger not when you are small. I actually like having discussions on support days with customer. Yes, sometimes they're more annoying but it's direct feedback of people trying to use your software.

cdnthrownawy39 2y ago
My on call experience required that I had to be able to respond within 10 ten minutes of the call, with 24/7/365 coverage. But if I couldn't get the issue resolved remotely it meant that I'd have to be in the office lab to recreate and reproduce the problem. It effectively restricted my movements personal movements to stay within commute distance of my office, and that includes all my vacation time as well. That was the better part of a year in my life, continuous. Of constantly considering that every decision, every meal, every movement, every action at all times, and weighing it against the risk of impacting my ability to respond to a customer call. Maintaining an extended period of alertness for a threat that very rarely materializes is frustrating in many ways that I'd like very much to forget. I didn't burn out from it, but it was a major factor in my decision to resign from that company. Obviously people out there that can handle this lifestyle, but I couldn't. And frankly I'm quite content to never try again.
- anal_reactor 2y ago
  I don't understand why on-call is normal. It's a huge mental burden on employees, which is especially an important issue in modern times of widespread mental issues, just so that some shitty mobile app can be available 24/7/365. If your business is important enough to have on-call, then you should have dedicated employees covering night shifts and nothing else, effectively limiting it to someone's office hours, effectively removing on-call. I think that there should be laws against on-call.
  - bayindirh 2y ago
    It's similar to using Electron to develop a software: Create quickly, offload the inefficiencies to the users' computers, so the developer can be comfy, and the development can be cheap. When you have on-call like this, you offload your expenses to your employee's life and mental health, and it's cheaper on the paper, for the short term. Then your company sinks as people starts leave, and the managers ask "Why?".
  - SpicyLemonZest 2y ago
    > If your business is important enough to have on-call, then you should have dedicated employees covering night shifts and nothing else, effectively limiting it to someone's office hours, effectively removing on-call. Easy to say when you envision it as someone's office hours and not your office hours. If my employer gave me a choice between a normal shift plus oncall or a night shift with no oncall, I'd pick the on-call in a heartbeat.
    - anal_reactor 2y ago
      Night shift fan here
- baq 2y ago
  You should be paid extra for all that time and indeed there are countries with legal frameworks which require an employer to pay the employee if their personal life outside of working hours is in any way constrained. If you are a contractor, always put limits for this kind of extra services.