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.NET suffers from the long lasting reputational taint of Microsoft. It was seen as the sworn enemy of open source and Linux, and for good reason. Today’s MS i
by shermantanktop 2y ago
.NET suffers from the long lasting reputational taint of Microsoft. It was seen as the sworn enemy of open source and Linux, and for good reason.
Today’s MS is not what it was back then. But long memories are not a bad thing, really. If .NET suffers a bit from some unfair perception, perhaps that can remind MS and others what happens when you take an aggressively adversarial approach.
- mixmastamyk 2y agoThey may be much less Linux-hostile today, but are still plenty user-hostile. Not to mention their lackadaisical security record.
- cebert 2y agoCan you please highlight some examples of .NET’s lackadaisical security record? I’m curious for my own awareness.
- mixmastamyk 2y agoMicrosoft's. Consult your favorite search engine.
- CharlieDigital 2y agoYou might be interested in GitHub's State of the Octoverse report from 2020 that had a section dedicated to security of popular languages, active open source projects on GH with those languages, and the package managers for those platforms. https://octoverse.github.com/2020/ https://octoverse.github.com/2020/
- mixmastamyk 2y agoMicrosoft's security record. Not one package manager. https://arstechnica.com/security/2024/01/microsoft-network-breached-through-password-spraying-by-russian-state-hackers/ https://arstechnica.com/security/2024/01/microsoft-network-b...
- CharlieDigital 2y agoThe ironic thing? GitHub, VS Code, and TypeScript are all Microsoft products.
- Svoka 2y agoOnly Typescript is in-house. Others are acquisitions. Do you remember Embrace, extend, and extinguish times? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis...
- CharlieDigital 2y agoDoes the distinction matter?
- hnlmorg 2y agoIn the case of GitHub, yeah. I don’t think a Microsoft source control “social network” would have taken off in the same way GitHub did. In fact when Microsoft purchased GitHub, quite a few people did leave and close their account. But GitHub already had such a monumental market lead that the departures ended up being a drop in the ocean. To be honest, I’m still waiting for the moment when Microsoft managed to fuck it all up like they did with Skype.
- LtWorf 2y agoI've left later on, when they started to impose 2FA and decided to scan all my code to train their AI.
- p_ing 2y agoDon't forget prior to GitHub Microsoft ran the home-grown, TFS-enabled Codeplex. It worked quite well if using Visual Studio but obviously, like Skype, there was no reason to run it when "something better" came along. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CodePlex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CodePlex
- 2y ago
- nolist_policy 2y agoI would say that .NET is the best example that Microsoft has not changed: https://isdotnetopen.com/ https://isdotnetopen.com/
- neonsunset 2y agoThis link again? I'm baffled by insistent behavior like this. I think it is just alienating people and even if they move ecosystems, the negative impression will stay. If you engage in bad faith behavior in a technical discussion, can you be expected to conduct yourself acceptably in a professional setting? Unlikely. This is a discussion about HTTP/3 support of all things. Why does it happen only when someone leaves a briefly positive note on C#? I don't know any other language (besides PHP, to an extent) that gets the same amount of hate.
- ycombinatrix 2y agoFirst time I've seen that link. What's bad faith about it? Don't know why you're bringing Rust into this.
- johnisgood 2y agoParent comment was edited, it no longer seems to include "Rust", difficult to follow. :P
- neonsunset 2y agoI edited it because it's not just my own experience of dealing with this. On twitter, I follow a couple Japanese developers from mainly gamedev scene and even they complain they started hearing more about "but it only works on windows" and "it's not open-source". Don't you find it strange that it should be the other way around the more years pass since .NET went OSS? The link itself is also quite outdated and mainly consists of posts from Miguel de Icaza who's promoting Swift, arguably less OSS language. Take from that what you will.
- thayne 2y agoMore than just that it came from MS. For a long time, .NET was completely proprietary, and only ran on Windows. Now it is open source and cross platform, but it is still fighting the momentum of being seen as Windows-only.
- mleo 2y agoI haven’t developed with .NET in a dozen years, let alone since it went cross platform, but I at least know it is capable of being cross platform. It amazes me how many developers I speak to that still assume .NET is Windows only.
- redeeman 2y agoexcept if you want to use for example system.windows.forms, then "oh well different teams maintain that, nobody made it for linux!!!" "the core is open!!!" they clearly WANT applications written in .net not to be cross platform
- ziml77 2y agoIt's not about different teams, it's that System.Windows.Forms is exactly what the namespace says. It's Windows Forms. It's a fairly thin wrapper over the Windows API. It's never going to be adapted to be cross-platform and isn't really something they've put any development work into for many years at this point. If you want a cross platform UI, use WPF with Avalonia. Or if you want something entirely from Microsoft themselves, there's MAUI as an option.
- lll-o-lll 2y agoJS is the only true cross-platform UI; sadly.
- LtWorf 2y agoYou spelled qt wrong
- CharlieDigital 2y ago
- throwaway2037 2y agoWhy hasn't Java been tainted the same since Oracle bought Sun and now 100% controls Java's development? I am continuously surprised to see they continue to make major investments in the platform. Project Valhalla was started in 2014 and is still going strong. I keep waiting for Oracle to cancel all major Java improvements, then milk the remaining corpse.
- shermantanktop 2y agoMe too! And yet it keeps going, with a reasonably open process, and multiple OSS alternatives out there. It is possible to run a Java shop with zero Oracle-derived code, which may be why people are ok with actually using the Oracle JDK. My bet is this is a pitched battle inside Oracle, and the forces that keep it open have been winning...so far.
- throwaway2037 2y ago> multiple OSS alternatives out there What does this mean?