6 ms·

Don't these usually come with ToS or something that has you agreeing that they can change the service any time?

• yaur 2y ago
  When you buy a car there is a lot of required paperwork that they don't really give you time to read, so maybe.
  • briandear 2y ago
    That’s generally loan paperwork. And you can take all the time you want to read.
  • mort96 2y ago
    They're not gonna refuse to sell you the car if you take the time to read the paperwork. And it's probably a large enough amount of money that you should take the time to at least skim it.
  • throwaway48476 2y ago
    You shouldn't sign things you don't read. Cue the centipad.
• Taek 2y ago
  ToS have limits, people in a practical sense aren't really able to read and understand the ToS of every product they buy, which means a ToS can only go so far in the ways it allows companies to be predatory against consumers.
  • hsbauauvhabzb 2y ago
    Has that been tested in court? I would have thought a user wilfully or negligently misreading a ToS would not be a good legal defence (not that I agree with how I think the law would play out)
    • shakna 2y ago
      Yes [0]. > Unless the website operator can show that a consumer has actual knowledge of the agreement, an enforceable contract will be found based on an inquiry notice theory only if: (1) the website provides reasonably conspicuous notice of the terms to which the consumer will be bound; and (2) the consumer takes some action, such as clicking a button or checking a box, that unambiguously manifests his or her assent to those terms. Its part of why changes of terms generally require you to accept them, before you can continue using a service. Unambiguous consent, and understanding of consent, are required, as ToS fall under contract law. Which does make most ToS... Unenforceable. [0] https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCOURTS-cand-4_20-cv-07908/pdf/USCOURTS-cand-4_20-cv-07908-1.pdf https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCOURTS-cand-4_20-cv-07...
      • nitwit005 2y ago
        The claim there is that they never saw the terms of service updates, and thus weren't aware of an arbitration clause, rather than terms of service generally not being valid.
        • shakna 2y ago
          There's more than one claim pointed out - specifically that ToS falls under contract law, which does require you agree to changes.
      • beezlewax 2y ago
        Nobody knows what they are consenting to. The law has failed us deeply in this regard.
• muzani 2y ago
  I always wonder how valid these actually are. There's probably a reasonable range. Like a car park can say they're not liable for your car's safety, it doesn't mean they can steal your car. A roller coaster can say they're not liable for injuries but if they didn't inform you it's dangerous for pregnant people or if they violate some safety law, they're probably liable. The bit about changing terms of service probably gives them some leeway to deal with law changes and stuff. If they're purposely being misleading to play bait and switch, that sounds like it's breaking a law somewhere.
  • hnlmorg 2y ago
    What you’re describing is that ToS cannot exonerate them from breaking other laws. Which is correct. However the question is whether other laws have been broken in the first place.
• mihaaly 2y ago
  Perhaps there should be license allowing the procurement and operation of consumer devices having overly complex (including language) ToC, making sure that the user knows what it takes to have and to operate a device like that. With categories for the various device categories, just like for vechicles (although cars and trafic rules are much simpler than ToCs, still that is a simple analogy to build up the complexity of ToCs).
• mjmas 2y ago
  That would be illegal under the unfair contracts law here in Australia.