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When it comes to hardware who pioneered all those technologies? Definitely not China. They’ve stolen unimaginable amounts of IP and will continue to do so. Bu

by prng2021 2y ago

When it comes to hardware who pioneered all those technologies? Definitely not China. They’ve stolen unimaginable amounts of IP and will continue to do so. But yes you’re right, they surprise everyone with how well they can scale the stolen innovation.

rapsey 2y ago
It is entirely irrelevant who pioneered the tech. This is why no one gives a crap about xerox anymore. Dismissing Chinese tech is foolish. They are tech leaders in many areas and moving to new ones every day. Solar, Nuclear, Batteries, EVs, Drones, Robotics etc. They have no one to copy in those fields because they have left the rest of the world behind.
- j_maffe 2y ago
  Expertise in HVDC is entirely contained in China it's incredible. They're definitely capable of innovations when needed.
  - rapsey 2y ago
    Every year China produces about as many stem graduates as the rest of the world combined.
j_maffe 2y ago
All developing markets "steal" until they've caught up with the competition. Just look at the US and how they "stole" innovations and tech from Europe.
- tonyhart7 2y ago
  "Just look at the US and how they "stole" innovations and tech from Europe." except that they are not
  - burch45 2y ago
    Alexander Hamilton oversaw an explicit program to steal technology from England. https://apnews.com/general-news-b40414d22f2248428ce11ff36b88dc53 https://apnews.com/general-news-b40414d22f2248428ce11ff36b88... I believe that is what is being referenced.
    - tonyhart7 2y ago
      most of these case are european that steal from another european then who emigrated to the state in colonial days to found their own bussiness
  - arccy 2y ago
    right now trying to steal back semi manufacturing from taiwan through tariffs and trade restrictions
    - tonyhart7 2y ago
      in case of TSMC, having 80% most advance chip manufacturing concentrated in 1 small island for an entire world is clearly problematic (corona teach us a lot), no matter how you look at this
    - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
      That’s not really the main technology, just the actual manufacturing. The valuable IP is EUV which came out of a US research project.
  - ipython 2y ago
    I think parent was thinking of events like … “he brought British textile technology to the United States, modifying it for American use. He memorized the textile factory machinery designs as an apprentice to a pioneer in the British industry before migrating to the U.S. at the age of 21.” Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Slater https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Slater
    - 2y ago
infinghxsg 2y ago
[dead]
Havoc 2y ago
>When it comes to hardware who pioneered all those technologies? Not sure that matters anymore in the new world order. Frontier tokens are largely fungible now. The details of how they came about doesn't make them any less useful.
paganel 2y ago
By the 1890s both the US and Germany had surpassed Britain when it came to industrial output, I don’t think it was any consolation for the Brits that they had invented it (almost) all.
ak_111 2y ago
Possible, but if you look at the graduate students and lecturers behind many of these IPs you will find they are Chinese (or Russians or Iranians). This is the paradox in those who are championing barring Chinese students from the US to prevent them from stealing IP, they don't see that at least 50% of this IP is generated by students from China, in a way they will be handing the CCP a gift by incentivising those students to remain in China.
- calf 2y ago
  I don't see how this is a proper reply to the prior comment; which Chinese lecturer has a Nobel prize in AI?
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  > they don't see that at least 50% of this IP is generated by students from China Source? I noticed your post leaves out various other countries that have high representation in US universities.
mateus1 2y ago
Would you say the west “stole” the IP for paper , ice cream, tea and noodle? Weird notion.
VerminOctopus1 2y ago
These sour grapes comments are so goofy, and honestly a little racist. The millions of Chinese engineers working out in China are extremely talented, and to downplay their achievements like this and to chalk them all up as thieves is ridiculous. They have the skills, the man power, and the vision, and they’re eating the West’s lunch regardless of your feelings on how fair it is.
- Tostino 2y ago
  I don't think it's that, so much as the average western citizen isn't able to go and create a knock off of a new invention / product and have it sold without legal consequences. That has been available to many Chinese citizens though.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
occz 2y ago
>They’ve stolen unimaginable amounts of IP and will continue to do so. All AI models are built on the back of massive amounts of "IP stealing". Either we consider IP to be valid and then all western companies in this space are just as bad, or we go with the direction the western companies are claiming and then China is not doing anything wrong.
prng2021 2y ago
I’m replying to myself to address multiple other replies. First of all, it’s really sad to see people saying it doesn’t matter the journey of how one achieves success, and all that matters is your current state. Brushing the CCPs countless acts of IP theft under the rug is like saying it doesn’t matter that the Trump family committed financial fraud for decades. All that matters is that they’ve managed to become billionaires today. Would the Trump family be anywhere near as wealthy if they hadn’t cheated for so long? Would China be much further behind than they are now if the CCP hadn’t stolen so much IP? I see multiple people here implying those questions are irrelevant, which I absolutely disagree with. Ignoring all that history is a huge injustice to everyone else who didn’t resort to that kind of behavior. I also want to be clear I’m not trying to make some ridiculous claim that Chinese individuals have been working independently to hack and steal IP. It’s their government and that same government is to blame for the many people like me who really look down on them despite what they’ve ultimately been able to achieve. They undoubtedly have huge numbers of brilliant citizens. When I make comments about China’s shameful history of tech IP theft, I’m talking about their government.
- jazzyjackson 2y ago
  Is it really theft when an American company sends over the CAD files to a Chinese manufacturer to make it for them? I know there's some about of corporate espionage where trade secrets got exfilled, but what makes you so certain the majority of Chinese success is from stolen IP, as if electrical engineering grad students can't figure out how to make solar panels from first principals?
kreyenborgi 2y ago
> stolen unimaginable amounts of IP something something software patents

rapsey 2y ago

It is entirely irrelevant who pioneered the tech. This is why no one gives a crap about xerox anymore. Dismissing Chinese tech is foolish. They are tech leaders in many areas and moving to new ones every day. Solar, Nuclear, Batteries, EVs, Drones, Robotics etc. They have no one to copy in those fields because they have left the rest of the world behind.

j_maffe 2y ago
Expertise in HVDC is entirely contained in China it's incredible. They're definitely capable of innovations when needed.
- rapsey 2y ago
  Every year China produces about as many stem graduates as the rest of the world combined.

j_maffe 2y ago

All developing markets "steal" until they've caught up with the competition. Just look at the US and how they "stole" innovations and tech from Europe.

tonyhart7 2y ago
"Just look at the US and how they "stole" innovations and tech from Europe." except that they are not
- burch45 2y ago
  Alexander Hamilton oversaw an explicit program to steal technology from England. https://apnews.com/general-news-b40414d22f2248428ce11ff36b88dc53 https://apnews.com/general-news-b40414d22f2248428ce11ff36b88... I believe that is what is being referenced.
  - tonyhart7 2y ago
    most of these case are european that steal from another european then who emigrated to the state in colonial days to found their own bussiness
- arccy 2y ago
  right now trying to steal back semi manufacturing from taiwan through tariffs and trade restrictions
  - tonyhart7 2y ago
    in case of TSMC, having 80% most advance chip manufacturing concentrated in 1 small island for an entire world is clearly problematic (corona teach us a lot), no matter how you look at this
  - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
    That’s not really the main technology, just the actual manufacturing. The valuable IP is EUV which came out of a US research project.
- ipython 2y ago
  I think parent was thinking of events like … “he brought British textile technology to the United States, modifying it for American use. He memorized the textile factory machinery designs as an apprentice to a pioneer in the British industry before migrating to the U.S. at the age of 21.” Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Slater https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Slater
  - 2y ago

infinghxsg 2y ago

[dead]

Havoc 2y ago

>When it comes to hardware who pioneered all those technologies? Not sure that matters anymore in the new world order. Frontier tokens are largely fungible now. The details of how they came about doesn't make them any less useful.

paganel 2y ago

By the 1890s both the US and Germany had surpassed Britain when it came to industrial output, I don’t think it was any consolation for the Brits that they had invented it (almost) all.

ak_111 2y ago

Possible, but if you look at the graduate students and lecturers behind many of these IPs you will find they are Chinese (or Russians or Iranians). This is the paradox in those who are championing barring Chinese students from the US to prevent them from stealing IP, they don't see that at least 50% of this IP is generated by students from China, in a way they will be handing the CCP a gift by incentivising those students to remain in China.

calf 2y ago
I don't see how this is a proper reply to the prior comment; which Chinese lecturer has a Nobel prize in AI?
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
> they don't see that at least 50% of this IP is generated by students from China Source? I noticed your post leaves out various other countries that have high representation in US universities.

mateus1 2y ago

Would you say the west “stole” the IP for paper , ice cream, tea and noodle? Weird notion.

VerminOctopus1 2y ago

These sour grapes comments are so goofy, and honestly a little racist. The millions of Chinese engineers working out in China are extremely talented, and to downplay their achievements like this and to chalk them all up as thieves is ridiculous. They have the skills, the man power, and the vision, and they’re eating the West’s lunch regardless of your feelings on how fair it is.

Tostino 2y ago
I don't think it's that, so much as the average western citizen isn't able to go and create a knock off of a new invention / product and have it sold without legal consequences. That has been available to many Chinese citizens though.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

occz 2y ago

>They’ve stolen unimaginable amounts of IP and will continue to do so. All AI models are built on the back of massive amounts of "IP stealing". Either we consider IP to be valid and then all western companies in this space are just as bad, or we go with the direction the western companies are claiming and then China is not doing anything wrong.

prng2021 2y ago

I’m replying to myself to address multiple other replies. First of all, it’s really sad to see people saying it doesn’t matter the journey of how one achieves success, and all that matters is your current state. Brushing the CCPs countless acts of IP theft under the rug is like saying it doesn’t matter that the Trump family committed financial fraud for decades. All that matters is that they’ve managed to become billionaires today. Would the Trump family be anywhere near as wealthy if they hadn’t cheated for so long? Would China be much further behind than they are now if the CCP hadn’t stolen so much IP? I see multiple people here implying those questions are irrelevant, which I absolutely disagree with. Ignoring all that history is a huge injustice to everyone else who didn’t resort to that kind of behavior. I also want to be clear I’m not trying to make some ridiculous claim that Chinese individuals have been working independently to hack and steal IP. It’s their government and that same government is to blame for the many people like me who really look down on them despite what they’ve ultimately been able to achieve. They undoubtedly have huge numbers of brilliant citizens. When I make comments about China’s shameful history of tech IP theft, I’m talking about their government.

jazzyjackson 2y ago
Is it really theft when an American company sends over the CAD files to a Chinese manufacturer to make it for them? I know there's some about of corporate espionage where trade secrets got exfilled, but what makes you so certain the majority of Chinese success is from stolen IP, as if electrical engineering grad students can't figure out how to make solar panels from first principals?

kreyenborgi 2y ago

> stolen unimaginable amounts of IP something something software patents