11 ms·

Medicaid cuts could devastate elderly in Florida nursing homes

52 points by howard941 2y ago

bearjaws 2y ago
As a native Floridian, still living in Florida, I am over the state of the state. The elderly have routinely voted against their best interests. I have moved on from social security, medicare and plan on not having any government support by the time I retire. We cannot vote to fix our insurance costs, adapt to climate change, or provide any form of transit other than your own car. They even voted the guy who's company commited medicare fraud into governorship, and then into congress. You cannot even make this shit up.
- jmclnx 2y ago
  Well to be fair, this can be true for many "red" States and areas of "blue" States as well. It is not like people were not warned, but I expect many people in nursing homes no longer vote.
  - thinkingtoilet 2y ago
    Name a blue state that has voted in to congres the person responsible for the biggest Medicare fraud in history. Name a blue state that routinely bans books like Florida. Name a blue state that is regularly devastated by the increasing effects of climate change and elects people who deny it. Name a blue state that has a government so fragile and detached from reality they had to fire the person who was responsible for releasing covid statistics. No, this is not a full endorsement for everything the democratic party has ever done and no, this is not saying blue states don't have problems. I'm just so tired of this "both sides" nonsense.
    - MrMcCall 2y ago
      They won't because they can't. That they're making such absurd arguments is that they refuse to admit they've been and are wrong about the direction this world needs to take. Only the cruel vote for a cruel bastard, only the racists vote for Nazi-adjacent racists, and only wannabe dictators vote for obvious fascists. Anyone who tries to both-sides this is a willfully ignorant fool. They have eyes that do not see, ears that do not hear, and hearts that do not understand. That's the nature of the cruel, compassionless fools of this world. They are asleep at the wheel of life. And they must embrace compassion to wake themselves up. We cannot do it for them, but their free will lets them be as stupid and cruel as they choose, but we ALL reap what we sow, for good or ill. Peace be with you, friend.
      - bryanlarsen 2y ago
        > Only the cruel vote for a cruel bastard, only the racists vote for Nazi-adjacent racists, and only wannabe dictators vote for obvious fascists. That's true for much of Trump's base, but it's not especially true for the marginal Trump voter. > willfully ignorant fool That's what they are. We've been celebrating ignorance for a long time now. But this isn't like Xkcd's "lucky 10,000". This willful choice to embrace ignorance has deadly consequences. Americans have a civic duty to vote, and they have a civic duty to be informed when they vote. This isn't like a local election where information is hard to find. Trump is doing exactly what he said he was going to do. "Willfully ignorant fool" should be an insult as strong as "Fascist".
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  That's why this Trump 2.0 is not at all bothering me. I mean, I'm sorry to see the loss of America's unrealized potential, being a great theoretical govt framework, the best in the world, looks to me. But when it gets really shitty, it'll be shitty for all of us, but I'm not going to deserve it because I haven't been living with my head up my arse. The fools here have voted for a lying, cheating, raping bastard who is obviously beholden to foreign interests. So, when the Trumpers get to suffering, I ain't gonna have one iota of pity for them. They're going to learn how it feels when no one cares about them, those dumb fucks. And, know that I don't want them to be miserable, but I'm gonna let them reap what they've sown, and make sure they know that they deserve it. Maybe some of them will actually WAKE UP. You should all embrace compassion for one and all before shit gets messy.
  - fluidcruft 2y ago
    What a hateful thing to say.
    - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
      I don't see any hate in it, it seemed like a post talking about sympathy for hateful people. They even said they didn't want the hateful people to be miserable. That's really nice.
    - MrMcCall 2y ago
      I love how the ignorant go out of their way to prove their ignorance. Their words are worth less than the fleeting vibrations they emit into the ether. All that matters in this world is our compassionate service to humanity. Our happiness, peace and contentment are completely correlated to it. Justice is in the fabric of this universe, though most people are too ignorant and selfish to realize the truth all around them. The truth is hidden behind the door of compassion, which we all have the choice to walk through or avoid entirely. Choose your destiny well, for you will reap what you sow.
      - fluidcruft 2y ago
        If one wants to read flowery story arcs like some sort of renfaire fourth-wall instant karma narrator on a sitcom, then perhaps try Trump 2.0 as punishment Biden and the DNC deserves.
- frankharv 2y ago
  >>>or provide any form of transit other than your own car. My last visit in November I hiked 4 miles on a trail in Ocala National Forest. It was devine. No other humans encountered. Florida is too big for Public Transit. Some of the train routes seem successful.
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    “Florida is too big for public transit” is entirely circular reasoning. Things are so spread out because of dependence on private transit. The more densely (and public-system connected) we can make our cities, the more divine Ocala National Forest-like experiences we can access and preserve for our children.
  - eesmith 2y ago
    Florida had public transit before the 1950s. All those Northerners that came down for the winter during the 1920s land boom traveled on train. It isn't like they bought a car just for their visit. For example, Coral Gables, next to Miami, had an electric trolley system. My aunt used busses to get around the Tampa area back in the 1960s, when Florida transit was segregated. There's a bunch of rails-to-trails routes because many places used to have train service. Take Perry, for example. It's only a few thousand people but it's over 100 years old (with an infamous massacre of blacks in the 1920s), and you can see the old stationhouse at https://maps.app.goo.gl/NJK8B6mjJpEXRrdK6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/NJK8B6mjJpEXRrdK6 right next to the tracks, a few blocks from the town center. (If you visit, Johnson's Bakery has some of the best donuts I've tasted, though they've changed ownership since I was last there.) So no, Florida is not too big for Public Transit. That there is too much sprawl is a rather different topic. A Florida developed around mass transit instead of personal car ownership would look very different even if it had the same population and area.
- sixothree 2y ago
  I hate to say it this way but Fox News is 100% the reason for this. They’ve realized some formula for engaging elderly people in an addictive way. I have an elderly neighbor family friend whose husband watches nothing but Fox News all day every day. It’s a very strange reality to visit. Every so she will ask me some reality check like whispering to me “do you really think we need to be this worried about the communists?”. All I am able to do is reassure her that liberals are generally good people and have a sense of morality and virtue that would rival that of any “Christian right wing” person. I tell her the world is filled with good people and what she sees just isn’t a true reality.
criddell 2y ago
It’s $104k+ to house a senior? Is that in line with what it costs in other countries?
- adgjlsfhk1 2y ago
  that lines up. it's easily 10k to 20k of housing cost, food, medical costs, and a ton of personnel depending on how old they are
- nemomarx 2y ago
  it sounds about comparable with housing prisoners? you pay less in security and more in medical care and on call nurses, I imagine.
  - criddell 2y ago
    Google tells me Florida spends about $25k / year / inmate. I’m not sure if that’s before or after the $18k / year each inmate is charged.
    - Retric 2y ago
      Sources show a fairly wide range of rates for Florida, it’s 42k here. https://247wallst.com/crime/2024/06/20/see-what-each-state-spends-on-each-prisoner/ https://247wallst.com/crime/2024/06/20/see-what-each-state-s...
- Retric 2y ago
  Yea, elderly care is really labor intensive + you have housing etc costs on top of it. UK nursing home fees are £80k = 103k USD.
- owyn 2y ago
  Yes it is. Maybe it is not? (edit, same in the UK). Why is left as an exercise on the blackboard. If you do have elderly parents I would look into the actual costs of facilities near you because you are in for a shock. However, if you think about it, most people age 40-70 have to keep working and can't afford to slow down to take care of their parents, so they have to outsource it. Keep the job to pay for that care plus all the other expenses of life. It would be nice if I could take a part time job and take care of my parents. But if I quit my full time job, my entire family would be homeless. So, I have to work and pay. Same story for child care, unfortunately. And since it is a for profit sector, the market charges as much as it can, which is always going to be more than you want, and just enough to leave the patient alive for future bleedings.
datavirtue 2y ago
DNR. Make sure you hang that around your neck or they will resurrect you from a stroke or other event as an invalid requiring 24/7 care in one of these facilities. Draining your wealth to keep you "alive."
- ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
  That sounds dystopian to me - people are unwilling to keep living due to the costs?
  - SauciestGNU 2y ago
    I think it's mostly quality of life. I would rather die than survive in an extremely diminished capacity. There are worse things than death.
  - tm-infringement 2y ago
    The monetary cost stings, but the calculus they are talking about really is about quality of life / expectancy. You are a relatively healthy 85 year old but you are still an octogenarian, you get a gnarly stroke. Do you want to? A: Get resuscitated and get "lucky". You are completely dependent on 24/7 care draining little Timmy's college fund or worse putting your adult kids in to debt. If a family member takes cares of you personally you will mentally break them. Also you cannot do anything fulfilling ever again. B: Get resuscitated, die after 3 weeks with broken ribs. Yay morphine. C: Get resuscitated and "just" get a little brain damage, maybe you become asshole or forget someone. Also, broken ribs and will probably happen again. D: Quit while you are ahead. So yeah, I'll get a DNR when a broken hip becomes inevitable.
    - datavirtue 2y ago
      Here is another scenario: You support your disabled son/daughter and have set up a trust to make sure their house is maintained in perpetuity. You get resurrected and end up in long term care. Not dead, so the part of the trust that kicks in is the lawyer selling/using assets to pay your bills that flow in after you or your medical POA fuck up the Medicare situation accidentally. You live for years and your son/daughter get booted out of the house you paid off and had meant for them. One little slip up and ALL your money is gone while you drool helplessly in hell. True story, happening right now.
hellojesus 2y ago
Good. Why should taxpayers be forced to pay for those who didn't prioritize saving? Private charity is fine, but there is no reason for the government to supplement this.
- bilekas 2y ago
  Because they paid their taxes during their working years? Edit: let’s not forget it’s the governments responsibility to look after their citizens? Not just their frugal ones.
  - hellojesus 2y ago
    The government has no responsibility to look after their citizens beyond offering public goods/services, which Healthcare is decidedly not. The article itself is a bit rubbishlike. To date Congress has repeatedly stated they are not going to cut ss, Medicaid, Medicare. This article posits that Medicaid must be cut with no citation or logical argument: > While the depth and scope of potential Medicaid cuts are unknown, House Republicans can’t meet their target of $880 billion in savings to pass President Donald Trump’s legislative agenda without making significant cuts to programs like Medicaid. All states rely on federal matching funds to finance their Medicaid programs.
    - stfp 2y ago
      That’s your definition of “the government” and it’s wrong at the very least in the sense that things aren’t that simple, except maybe if the government you’re talking about a military junta. But in a mature, stable, functioning society the government is part of society and serves a myriad of purposes, in a myriad of ways. And that’s actually OK.
    - burch45 2y ago
      It’s the basic math of the funding bill. The amount required to continue operating does not equal the amount allocated for social security, Medicare or Medicaid. So no matter what anyone says about “not cutting” there will be cuts. Lawmakers have been asked about this repeatedly with no answers.
arghandugh 2y ago
The goal is for major industries to stop paying taxes, loot national assets, and repress threats to their dominance and income streams. This requires short-circuiting all of the machinery that makes civil society possible. And if you get to sicken, impoverish, and kill Americans in the process? Bonus!
readthenotes1 2y ago
Muck-raking at its finest! https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-does-republican-budget-cut-medicaid-880-billion-2030326 https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-does-republican-budget-c...

52 points by howard941 2y ago

As a native Floridian, still living in Florida, I am over the state of the state. The elderly have routinely voted against their best interests. I have moved on from social security, medicare and plan on not having any government support by the time I retire. We cannot vote to fix our insurance costs, adapt to climate change, or provide any form of transit other than your own car. They even voted the guy who's company commited medicare fraud into governorship, and then into congress. You cannot even make this shit up.

jmclnx 2y ago
Well to be fair, this can be true for many "red" States and areas of "blue" States as well. It is not like people were not warned, but I expect many people in nursing homes no longer vote.
- thinkingtoilet 2y ago
  Name a blue state that has voted in to congres the person responsible for the biggest Medicare fraud in history. Name a blue state that routinely bans books like Florida. Name a blue state that is regularly devastated by the increasing effects of climate change and elects people who deny it. Name a blue state that has a government so fragile and detached from reality they had to fire the person who was responsible for releasing covid statistics. No, this is not a full endorsement for everything the democratic party has ever done and no, this is not saying blue states don't have problems. I'm just so tired of this "both sides" nonsense.
  - MrMcCall 2y ago
    They won't because they can't. That they're making such absurd arguments is that they refuse to admit they've been and are wrong about the direction this world needs to take. Only the cruel vote for a cruel bastard, only the racists vote for Nazi-adjacent racists, and only wannabe dictators vote for obvious fascists. Anyone who tries to both-sides this is a willfully ignorant fool. They have eyes that do not see, ears that do not hear, and hearts that do not understand. That's the nature of the cruel, compassionless fools of this world. They are asleep at the wheel of life. And they must embrace compassion to wake themselves up. We cannot do it for them, but their free will lets them be as stupid and cruel as they choose, but we ALL reap what we sow, for good or ill. Peace be with you, friend.
    - bryanlarsen 2y ago
      > Only the cruel vote for a cruel bastard, only the racists vote for Nazi-adjacent racists, and only wannabe dictators vote for obvious fascists. That's true for much of Trump's base, but it's not especially true for the marginal Trump voter. > willfully ignorant fool That's what they are. We've been celebrating ignorance for a long time now. But this isn't like Xkcd's "lucky 10,000". This willful choice to embrace ignorance has deadly consequences. Americans have a civic duty to vote, and they have a civic duty to be informed when they vote. This isn't like a local election where information is hard to find. Trump is doing exactly what he said he was going to do. "Willfully ignorant fool" should be an insult as strong as "Fascist".
MrMcCall 2y ago
That's why this Trump 2.0 is not at all bothering me. I mean, I'm sorry to see the loss of America's unrealized potential, being a great theoretical govt framework, the best in the world, looks to me. But when it gets really shitty, it'll be shitty for all of us, but I'm not going to deserve it because I haven't been living with my head up my arse. The fools here have voted for a lying, cheating, raping bastard who is obviously beholden to foreign interests. So, when the Trumpers get to suffering, I ain't gonna have one iota of pity for them. They're going to learn how it feels when no one cares about them, those dumb fucks. And, know that I don't want them to be miserable, but I'm gonna let them reap what they've sown, and make sure they know that they deserve it. Maybe some of them will actually WAKE UP. You should all embrace compassion for one and all before shit gets messy.
- fluidcruft 2y ago
  What a hateful thing to say.
  - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
    I don't see any hate in it, it seemed like a post talking about sympathy for hateful people. They even said they didn't want the hateful people to be miserable. That's really nice.
  - MrMcCall 2y ago
    I love how the ignorant go out of their way to prove their ignorance. Their words are worth less than the fleeting vibrations they emit into the ether. All that matters in this world is our compassionate service to humanity. Our happiness, peace and contentment are completely correlated to it. Justice is in the fabric of this universe, though most people are too ignorant and selfish to realize the truth all around them. The truth is hidden behind the door of compassion, which we all have the choice to walk through or avoid entirely. Choose your destiny well, for you will reap what you sow.
    - fluidcruft 2y ago
      If one wants to read flowery story arcs like some sort of renfaire fourth-wall instant karma narrator on a sitcom, then perhaps try Trump 2.0 as punishment Biden and the DNC deserves.
frankharv 2y ago
>>>or provide any form of transit other than your own car. My last visit in November I hiked 4 miles on a trail in Ocala National Forest. It was devine. No other humans encountered. Florida is too big for Public Transit. Some of the train routes seem successful.
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  “Florida is too big for public transit” is entirely circular reasoning. Things are so spread out because of dependence on private transit. The more densely (and public-system connected) we can make our cities, the more divine Ocala National Forest-like experiences we can access and preserve for our children.
- eesmith 2y ago
  Florida had public transit before the 1950s. All those Northerners that came down for the winter during the 1920s land boom traveled on train. It isn't like they bought a car just for their visit. For example, Coral Gables, next to Miami, had an electric trolley system. My aunt used busses to get around the Tampa area back in the 1960s, when Florida transit was segregated. There's a bunch of rails-to-trails routes because many places used to have train service. Take Perry, for example. It's only a few thousand people but it's over 100 years old (with an infamous massacre of blacks in the 1920s), and you can see the old stationhouse at https://maps.app.goo.gl/NJK8B6mjJpEXRrdK6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/NJK8B6mjJpEXRrdK6 right next to the tracks, a few blocks from the town center. (If you visit, Johnson's Bakery has some of the best donuts I've tasted, though they've changed ownership since I was last there.) So no, Florida is not too big for Public Transit. That there is too much sprawl is a rather different topic. A Florida developed around mass transit instead of personal car ownership would look very different even if it had the same population and area.
sixothree 2y ago
I hate to say it this way but Fox News is 100% the reason for this. They’ve realized some formula for engaging elderly people in an addictive way. I have an elderly neighbor family friend whose husband watches nothing but Fox News all day every day. It’s a very strange reality to visit. Every so she will ask me some reality check like whispering to me “do you really think we need to be this worried about the communists?”. All I am able to do is reassure her that liberals are generally good people and have a sense of morality and virtue that would rival that of any “Christian right wing” person. I tell her the world is filled with good people and what she sees just isn’t a true reality.

criddell 2y ago

It’s $104k+ to house a senior? Is that in line with what it costs in other countries?

adgjlsfhk1 2y ago
that lines up. it's easily 10k to 20k of housing cost, food, medical costs, and a ton of personnel depending on how old they are
nemomarx 2y ago
it sounds about comparable with housing prisoners? you pay less in security and more in medical care and on call nurses, I imagine.
- criddell 2y ago
  Google tells me Florida spends about $25k / year / inmate. I’m not sure if that’s before or after the $18k / year each inmate is charged.
  - Retric 2y ago
    Sources show a fairly wide range of rates for Florida, it’s 42k here. https://247wallst.com/crime/2024/06/20/see-what-each-state-spends-on-each-prisoner/ https://247wallst.com/crime/2024/06/20/see-what-each-state-s...
Retric 2y ago
Yea, elderly care is really labor intensive + you have housing etc costs on top of it. UK nursing home fees are £80k = 103k USD.
owyn 2y ago
Yes it is. Maybe it is not? (edit, same in the UK). Why is left as an exercise on the blackboard. If you do have elderly parents I would look into the actual costs of facilities near you because you are in for a shock. However, if you think about it, most people age 40-70 have to keep working and can't afford to slow down to take care of their parents, so they have to outsource it. Keep the job to pay for that care plus all the other expenses of life. It would be nice if I could take a part time job and take care of my parents. But if I quit my full time job, my entire family would be homeless. So, I have to work and pay. Same story for child care, unfortunately. And since it is a for profit sector, the market charges as much as it can, which is always going to be more than you want, and just enough to leave the patient alive for future bleedings.

datavirtue 2y ago

DNR. Make sure you hang that around your neck or they will resurrect you from a stroke or other event as an invalid requiring 24/7 care in one of these facilities. Draining your wealth to keep you "alive."

ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
That sounds dystopian to me - people are unwilling to keep living due to the costs?
- SauciestGNU 2y ago
  I think it's mostly quality of life. I would rather die than survive in an extremely diminished capacity. There are worse things than death.
- tm-infringement 2y ago
  The monetary cost stings, but the calculus they are talking about really is about quality of life / expectancy. You are a relatively healthy 85 year old but you are still an octogenarian, you get a gnarly stroke. Do you want to? A: Get resuscitated and get "lucky". You are completely dependent on 24/7 care draining little Timmy's college fund or worse putting your adult kids in to debt. If a family member takes cares of you personally you will mentally break them. Also you cannot do anything fulfilling ever again. B: Get resuscitated, die after 3 weeks with broken ribs. Yay morphine. C: Get resuscitated and "just" get a little brain damage, maybe you become asshole or forget someone. Also, broken ribs and will probably happen again. D: Quit while you are ahead. So yeah, I'll get a DNR when a broken hip becomes inevitable.
  - datavirtue 2y ago
    Here is another scenario: You support your disabled son/daughter and have set up a trust to make sure their house is maintained in perpetuity. You get resurrected and end up in long term care. Not dead, so the part of the trust that kicks in is the lawyer selling/using assets to pay your bills that flow in after you or your medical POA fuck up the Medicare situation accidentally. You live for years and your son/daughter get booted out of the house you paid off and had meant for them. One little slip up and ALL your money is gone while you drool helplessly in hell. True story, happening right now.

hellojesus 2y ago

Good. Why should taxpayers be forced to pay for those who didn't prioritize saving? Private charity is fine, but there is no reason for the government to supplement this.

bilekas 2y ago
Because they paid their taxes during their working years? Edit: let’s not forget it’s the governments responsibility to look after their citizens? Not just their frugal ones.
- hellojesus 2y ago
  The government has no responsibility to look after their citizens beyond offering public goods/services, which Healthcare is decidedly not. The article itself is a bit rubbishlike. To date Congress has repeatedly stated they are not going to cut ss, Medicaid, Medicare. This article posits that Medicaid must be cut with no citation or logical argument: > While the depth and scope of potential Medicaid cuts are unknown, House Republicans can’t meet their target of $880 billion in savings to pass President Donald Trump’s legislative agenda without making significant cuts to programs like Medicaid. All states rely on federal matching funds to finance their Medicaid programs.
  - stfp 2y ago
    That’s your definition of “the government” and it’s wrong at the very least in the sense that things aren’t that simple, except maybe if the government you’re talking about a military junta. But in a mature, stable, functioning society the government is part of society and serves a myriad of purposes, in a myriad of ways. And that’s actually OK.
  - burch45 2y ago
    It’s the basic math of the funding bill. The amount required to continue operating does not equal the amount allocated for social security, Medicare or Medicaid. So no matter what anyone says about “not cutting” there will be cuts. Lawmakers have been asked about this repeatedly with no answers.

arghandugh 2y ago

The goal is for major industries to stop paying taxes, loot national assets, and repress threats to their dominance and income streams. This requires short-circuiting all of the machinery that makes civil society possible. And if you get to sicken, impoverish, and kill Americans in the process? Bonus!

readthenotes1 2y ago

Muck-raking at its finest! https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-does-republican-budget-cut-medicaid-880-billion-2030326 https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-does-republican-budget-c...