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Why am I starting to believe that france is now more culturally shited towards being a new super power in this multi polar world instead of USA. Seriously , I

Why am I starting to believe that france is now more culturally shited towards being a new super power in this multi polar world instead of USA. Seriously , I never used to really think about france that much , but Emmanuel Macron correcting trump on live air really made me trust france more as a non US citizen.

thrance 2y ago
That was funny, but as a Frenchman I don't hold too much hope. Our far right, supporting both Trump and Putin, has been gaining steam with each passing election for the past 20 years. Hopefully the circus currently taking place across the pond is enough to deter some from voting for them, come 2027?
- maelito 2y ago
  That's what I hope too. Trump's failure could be our far-right failure to win the 2027 elections.
  - eastbound 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - myko 2y ago
      Putin has always been "for peace" - meaning, give Ukraine to him, and he'll stop trying to take Ukraine over :) (and if he still has war fighting capability left, attack the next country going west in ~5 years)
    - thrance 2y ago
      What the fuck are you even talking about? Putin broke his peace treaties 27 times and just refused Ukraine's last one. Russia was the one starting the whole fucking war in the first place. How is CAF funding terrorists and drugs?? Stop spreading nonsense, and please never vote again, seeing how you are completely brainwashed.
  - mmooss 2y ago
    That's been the Democratic Party's strategy for decades: Don't confront them and the Republican candidate, Trump in particular, will 'shoot themselves in the foot'.How is that working? On their part, it's just cowardice and laziness. There is no way you will win, no way they will stop, unless you fight (politically and socially) and defeat them.
    - thrance 2y ago
      This very much. Defeat them and then actually address the growing inequalities and social issues, to curb discontent. Otherwise it's back to square one in the next election. I don't trust our neoliberal politicans (Dems or Macron here in France, whatever his party is called today) to do the right thing. If they get reelected it will be more mostly pro-buisness politics with a dash of mildly progressive policies, when it's convenient.
- deskr 2y ago
  20 years. That's step 1, Demoralization: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQPsKvG6WMI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQPsKvG6WMI
  - thrance 2y ago
    That was very interesting, Russia switched from pushing "marxism-leninism" to general reactionary ideas, which seem to take better in our current age. I'd add that they also found powerful allies in western oligarchs, who have a vested interest in the dismantling of the state for personal gains.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
- rdm_blackhole 2y ago
  The far-right is a symptom of what is happening in France. Fix the problems and the far right will disappear. Unfortunately, that would mean that the politicians from the last 20 years need to do a mea culpa on quite a few things and that will never happen so the far right will eventually get in power. Don't blame the players, blame the game.
  - mmooss 2y ago
    > The far-right is a symptom of what is happening in France. They are having the same outcomes using the same tactics all over the world. It's not dependant on the country.
froggertoaster 2y ago
I would hardly decide to trust a politician based on a 5 second quip on live TV.
- Imustaskforhelp 2y ago
  Yea I agree , fair point. Though I think , I would probably study more about france's current system to trust it more but that requires efforts and in general a sense of direction (like which country / politician to even start reading to start to generate trust from reason ) I was more about talking trust from intuition which can then create that sense of direction. I thank you for creating this comment. I gotta read more about macron to see if he's really how I felt from my intution.
jisnsm 2y ago
>Why am I starting to believe that france is now more culturally shited towards being a new super power in this multi polar world instead of USA. Because you are reading a lot of destabilisation propaganda online. I recommend you cut your news and social networks consumption a little bit. The fact that you are beginning to trust FRANCE over something that MACRON did, no less, speaks volumes.
- myko 2y ago
  It is completely reasonable to see France in that light given recent history of the US - a man who should be in prison for insurrection is the head of the executive.
  - PoignardAzur 2y ago
    I mean... I'm not sure we're doing much better. Sarkozy got sentenced for jail time (commuted to house arrest) and there are still people who would vote for him if he ran for president again.
  - diggan 2y ago
    > a man who should be in prison for insurrection is the head of the executive I'm no France-lover (hugs from north-east of Spain), but I think this sums up things pretty well. Someone who would have been jailed in any other democracy, is now the head of government, somehow. Given France's experience with democracy and how hard it is to keep, and America's lack of experience (as a country and democracy), makes me trust France a lot more today.
    - jisnsm 2y ago
      Being Spanish you know very well that our current president should also be in prison. So I will trust your word.
    - Imustaskforhelp 2y ago
      Exactly!!! This was the exact sentiment I was trying to capture. Along with the fact that a lot of american politics simply doesn't make much sense to me following it. So that also helps. the fact that france's president put his stance forward and corrected american's president's blatant lie also contributed just a little in my ignorant tiny world bubble to really considering about france as a more trustworthy country and then reasoning from it to concluding it as true. There might be many other countries as well who are more trust worthy than france , but certain events which put them in spotlight would be required for the normies like me to find it.
serial_dev 2y ago
[flagged]
- Imustaskforhelp 2y ago
  Sorry mate. hackernews's open source alternative thread is definitely not the right place for this comment. It would have been greater on a hackernews's more political thread and point out the france open sourcing efforts in that point. Do you want me to delete this comment? I totally would if you want.
  - kubb 2y ago
    Don't delete it, he's trying to restrict your free speech.
    - serial_dev 2y ago
      Don’t delete it, I don’t mind, and I don’t want to discourage anyone’s free speech, that includes mine, too (so please deal with my thoughts). All I’m saying is that only because French and German government paid for this piece of open source software, maybe next time look in the mirror and ask yourself first: Is this really about Macron vs Trump? Instead of looking at this as me restricting your free speech, this is an intervention and I encourage you to not see Trump and Macron in everything.
- watusername 2y ago
  > real hacker news discussion I say that this isn't really productive, and I would argue that the French government's involvement played a big part in this trending on HN in the first place.
- atmosx 2y ago
  Maybe focus less on what others are doing and more on backing your own views with actions. For instance, you could just ignore this comment and the thread altogether. No one’s forcing you to read the replies, after all.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
__MatrixMan__ 2y ago
When it comes to the use of cutting edge technology to further the goals of the people at large, France has been a leader for some time. As for why you're just noticing now, perhaps the time has come for the rest of us to do the same.
atmosx 2y ago
Macron’s approval ratings must be below 3% by now. If he had any backbone, he’d resign immediately.
- phtrivier 2y ago
  You made me look : it's about 27% [1], which is of course not great, but actually not that bad _for him_, _in the past few years_. The political landscape is completely split in 3 thirds in France at the moment, and people stay firmly in their lanes. It would need an incredibly popular décision to bring anyone from the left or far right to approve of him. [1] https://www.latribune.fr/la-tribune-dimanche/politique/barometre-exclusif-la-crise-internationale-met-en-avant-le-duo-macron-lecornu-1020687.html https://www.latribune.fr/la-tribune-dimanche/politique/barom...
  - Lutger 2y ago
    Thanks for actually looking things up instead of dreaming things up. This reminds me of Trumps claim that Zelensky is a hugely impopulair dictator, whereas in fact his approval ratings far exceed Trumps and he is very much legally chosen. Misinformation is a disease.
    - phtrivier 2y ago
      That said, I was also expecting smaller numbers, mostly based on how comedians are routinely roasting him about his latest declaration on Russia. So there is, at the same time, an "oh, god, he's trying to use Russian fearmongering" effect that is just too big for comedians not to use ; and, somehow, a "rally around the flag" effect where people thinks he's actually on to something. I would love to know if someone has studied the effects of comedians on misinformation. Hyperbole and exagérations are par for the course when making jokes - I just don't know if people are starting to take comedians both seriously (as you should) and literally (as you should not.)
rdm_blackhole 2y ago
If you trust E.Macron, I have a nice bridge to sell you. Trump is a liar, but so is Macron. France's government is working on a law to force the messaging providers to implement a backdoor that would break E-to-E. Macron has promised to end homelessness before being elected. It never happened. He was supposed to stop the rise of the far right, the far right has never been higher. He was suppose to simplify France's bureaucracy to help entrepreneurs and trim the fat so that we stop burdening the new generation with crippling debt. The debt has literally exploded under his presidencies, crime is on the rise and Islamism terrorism as well. His political capital in France has vanished. His party does not control the parliament nor the senate. His own prime minister is not from his party and as such will not implement Macron's agenda. Macron is more interested in pushing the interests of the EU or Ukraine than those of France itself. In France, the president is the one who sets the agenda in terms of foreign policy and that is what Macron is focusing on. On the rest of the issues that France is currently facing, he basically has no say on it. He is basically a lame duck president who has less than 2 years left and can never run again.
- PoignardAzur 2y ago
  There's a lot to things to blame Macron for, but your post is an incredibly bad faith caricature. Like, this: > He was suppose to simplify France's bureaucracy to help entrepreneurs and trim the fat so that we stop burdening the new generation with crippling debt. The debt has literally exploded under his presidencies Was Macron supposed to magic Covid out of existence? The "whatever it takes" approach he took was the best possible policy for preserving the economy, and exploding debt was the cost.

thrance 2y ago

That was funny, but as a Frenchman I don't hold too much hope. Our far right, supporting both Trump and Putin, has been gaining steam with each passing election for the past 20 years. Hopefully the circus currently taking place across the pond is enough to deter some from voting for them, come 2027?

maelito 2y ago
That's what I hope too. Trump's failure could be our far-right failure to win the 2027 elections.
- eastbound 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - myko 2y ago
    Putin has always been "for peace" - meaning, give Ukraine to him, and he'll stop trying to take Ukraine over :) (and if he still has war fighting capability left, attack the next country going west in ~5 years)
  - thrance 2y ago
    What the fuck are you even talking about? Putin broke his peace treaties 27 times and just refused Ukraine's last one. Russia was the one starting the whole fucking war in the first place. How is CAF funding terrorists and drugs?? Stop spreading nonsense, and please never vote again, seeing how you are completely brainwashed.
- mmooss 2y ago
  That's been the Democratic Party's strategy for decades: Don't confront them and the Republican candidate, Trump in particular, will 'shoot themselves in the foot'.How is that working? On their part, it's just cowardice and laziness. There is no way you will win, no way they will stop, unless you fight (politically and socially) and defeat them.
  - thrance 2y ago
    This very much. Defeat them and then actually address the growing inequalities and social issues, to curb discontent. Otherwise it's back to square one in the next election. I don't trust our neoliberal politicans (Dems or Macron here in France, whatever his party is called today) to do the right thing. If they get reelected it will be more mostly pro-buisness politics with a dash of mildly progressive policies, when it's convenient.
deskr 2y ago
20 years. That's step 1, Demoralization: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQPsKvG6WMI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQPsKvG6WMI
- thrance 2y ago
  That was very interesting, Russia switched from pushing "marxism-leninism" to general reactionary ideas, which seem to take better in our current age. I'd add that they also found powerful allies in western oligarchs, who have a vested interest in the dismantling of the state for personal gains.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
rdm_blackhole 2y ago
The far-right is a symptom of what is happening in France. Fix the problems and the far right will disappear. Unfortunately, that would mean that the politicians from the last 20 years need to do a mea culpa on quite a few things and that will never happen so the far right will eventually get in power. Don't blame the players, blame the game.
- mmooss 2y ago
  > The far-right is a symptom of what is happening in France. They are having the same outcomes using the same tactics all over the world. It's not dependant on the country.

froggertoaster 2y ago

I would hardly decide to trust a politician based on a 5 second quip on live TV.

Imustaskforhelp 2y ago
Yea I agree , fair point. Though I think , I would probably study more about france's current system to trust it more but that requires efforts and in general a sense of direction (like which country / politician to even start reading to start to generate trust from reason ) I was more about talking trust from intuition which can then create that sense of direction. I thank you for creating this comment. I gotta read more about macron to see if he's really how I felt from my intution.

jisnsm 2y ago

>Why am I starting to believe that france is now more culturally shited towards being a new super power in this multi polar world instead of USA. Because you are reading a lot of destabilisation propaganda online. I recommend you cut your news and social networks consumption a little bit. The fact that you are beginning to trust FRANCE over something that MACRON did, no less, speaks volumes.

myko 2y ago
It is completely reasonable to see France in that light given recent history of the US - a man who should be in prison for insurrection is the head of the executive.
- PoignardAzur 2y ago
  I mean... I'm not sure we're doing much better. Sarkozy got sentenced for jail time (commuted to house arrest) and there are still people who would vote for him if he ran for president again.
- diggan 2y ago
  > a man who should be in prison for insurrection is the head of the executive I'm no France-lover (hugs from north-east of Spain), but I think this sums up things pretty well. Someone who would have been jailed in any other democracy, is now the head of government, somehow. Given France's experience with democracy and how hard it is to keep, and America's lack of experience (as a country and democracy), makes me trust France a lot more today.
  - jisnsm 2y ago
    Being Spanish you know very well that our current president should also be in prison. So I will trust your word.
  - Imustaskforhelp 2y ago
    Exactly!!! This was the exact sentiment I was trying to capture. Along with the fact that a lot of american politics simply doesn't make much sense to me following it. So that also helps. the fact that france's president put his stance forward and corrected american's president's blatant lie also contributed just a little in my ignorant tiny world bubble to really considering about france as a more trustworthy country and then reasoning from it to concluding it as true. There might be many other countries as well who are more trust worthy than france , but certain events which put them in spotlight would be required for the normies like me to find it.

serial_dev 2y ago

[flagged]

Imustaskforhelp 2y ago
Sorry mate. hackernews's open source alternative thread is definitely not the right place for this comment. It would have been greater on a hackernews's more political thread and point out the france open sourcing efforts in that point. Do you want me to delete this comment? I totally would if you want.
- kubb 2y ago
  Don't delete it, he's trying to restrict your free speech.
  - serial_dev 2y ago
    Don’t delete it, I don’t mind, and I don’t want to discourage anyone’s free speech, that includes mine, too (so please deal with my thoughts). All I’m saying is that only because French and German government paid for this piece of open source software, maybe next time look in the mirror and ask yourself first: Is this really about Macron vs Trump? Instead of looking at this as me restricting your free speech, this is an intervention and I encourage you to not see Trump and Macron in everything.
watusername 2y ago
> real hacker news discussion I say that this isn't really productive, and I would argue that the French government's involvement played a big part in this trending on HN in the first place.
atmosx 2y ago
Maybe focus less on what others are doing and more on backing your own views with actions. For instance, you could just ignore this comment and the thread altogether. No one’s forcing you to read the replies, after all.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

__MatrixMan__ 2y ago

When it comes to the use of cutting edge technology to further the goals of the people at large, France has been a leader for some time. As for why you're just noticing now, perhaps the time has come for the rest of us to do the same.

atmosx 2y ago

Macron’s approval ratings must be below 3% by now. If he had any backbone, he’d resign immediately.

phtrivier 2y ago
You made me look : it's about 27% [1], which is of course not great, but actually not that bad _for him_, _in the past few years_. The political landscape is completely split in 3 thirds in France at the moment, and people stay firmly in their lanes. It would need an incredibly popular décision to bring anyone from the left or far right to approve of him. [1] https://www.latribune.fr/la-tribune-dimanche/politique/barometre-exclusif-la-crise-internationale-met-en-avant-le-duo-macron-lecornu-1020687.html https://www.latribune.fr/la-tribune-dimanche/politique/barom...
- Lutger 2y ago
  Thanks for actually looking things up instead of dreaming things up. This reminds me of Trumps claim that Zelensky is a hugely impopulair dictator, whereas in fact his approval ratings far exceed Trumps and he is very much legally chosen. Misinformation is a disease.
  - phtrivier 2y ago
    That said, I was also expecting smaller numbers, mostly based on how comedians are routinely roasting him about his latest declaration on Russia. So there is, at the same time, an "oh, god, he's trying to use Russian fearmongering" effect that is just too big for comedians not to use ; and, somehow, a "rally around the flag" effect where people thinks he's actually on to something. I would love to know if someone has studied the effects of comedians on misinformation. Hyperbole and exagérations are par for the course when making jokes - I just don't know if people are starting to take comedians both seriously (as you should) and literally (as you should not.)

rdm_blackhole 2y ago

If you trust E.Macron, I have a nice bridge to sell you. Trump is a liar, but so is Macron. France's government is working on a law to force the messaging providers to implement a backdoor that would break E-to-E. Macron has promised to end homelessness before being elected. It never happened. He was supposed to stop the rise of the far right, the far right has never been higher. He was suppose to simplify France's bureaucracy to help entrepreneurs and trim the fat so that we stop burdening the new generation with crippling debt. The debt has literally exploded under his presidencies, crime is on the rise and Islamism terrorism as well. His political capital in France has vanished. His party does not control the parliament nor the senate. His own prime minister is not from his party and as such will not implement Macron's agenda. Macron is more interested in pushing the interests of the EU or Ukraine than those of France itself. In France, the president is the one who sets the agenda in terms of foreign policy and that is what Macron is focusing on. On the rest of the issues that France is currently facing, he basically has no say on it. He is basically a lame duck president who has less than 2 years left and can never run again.

PoignardAzur 2y ago
There's a lot to things to blame Macron for, but your post is an incredibly bad faith caricature. Like, this: > He was suppose to simplify France's bureaucracy to help entrepreneurs and trim the fat so that we stop burdening the new generation with crippling debt. The debt has literally exploded under his presidencies Was Macron supposed to magic Covid out of existence? The "whatever it takes" approach he took was the best possible policy for preserving the economy, and exploding debt was the cost.