8 ms·
The race is on to build the most complex machine
- tromp 2y agohttps://archive.is/vPdvM https://archive.is/vPdvM
- photonthug 2y agoOh man oh man, can we get some more pictures of crazy machines? Here's another https://www.extremetech.com/computing/report-intel-bought-all-of-asmls-high-na-euv-machines-for-2024 https://www.extremetech.com/computing/report-intel-bought-al...
- madspindel 2y agohttps://youtu.be/h_zgURwr6nA https://youtu.be/h_zgURwr6nA
- on_the_train 2y agoAnd even that official video is massively underplaying how fast these steppers (and in turn: all the mechanics around the mirrors) work. Look at this video at ~44:20 to get a better feeling https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh33GG7prfA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh33GG7prfA
- zonkerdonker 2y agoThe platen is accelerating at 32g, speeds over 100kph, with a precision of FOUR SILCON ATOMS. That is absolutely astounding. What a beautiful machine
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- paulirish 2y agoA recent CCC talk covered the current state of EUV lithography (really well): https://youtu.be/NdppYYfQJgg?t=1393 https://youtu.be/NdppYYfQJgg?t=1393 This timecode has rendering of the ASML machine in action. (edit: the same one madspindel posted, oops! The rest of the talk def worth a watch)
- gizajob 2y agoBrilliant talk thanks for suggesting.
- xattt 2y agoIs it the processing of the image, or is the shine of the machine really a warm silvery colour?
- on_the_train 2y agoNot one mention of Zeiss? Those mirrors are quite the story themselve. The light source also isn't actually being done by asml, it's trumpf
- kerblang 2y agoThe semiconductor supply chain is bonkers... would like to have a diagram of the whole thing, including the special quartz mine in NC
- zparky 2y agoThere's this site[1] which doesn't go into that much depth but is still neat to explore [1] - https://chipexplorer.eto.tech/ https://chipexplorer.eto.tech/
- alexpotato 2y agoThis is both fascinating and an excellent way to show the "big picture" but also allow people to drill into the details.
- youngtaff 2y agoThere are other quartz mines that can produce the purity needed for the crucibles
- wg0 2y agoAnd that ASML is majority owned by Carl Zeis, a German company.
- on_the_train 2y agoIf anything it's the other way round. Asml owns 25% of Zeiss SMT. Source: I work there
- wg0 2y ago
- bob1029 2y ago> For NIL to become a mainstream chipmaking technology, it must overcome several challenges. Defects are a big concern—tiny particles or imperfections on the mould can create repeating flaws across entire wafers. Alignment is another hurdle. Since chips are built in layers, the circuit patterns of every layer must line up precisely. The one major advantage NIL has over optical techniques is that it does not require multiple patterning to address edge cases: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_patterning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_patterning
- IndrekR 2y agoIt is funny how “the race is on” when we have ASML/ZEISS monopoly in this sector.
- jimnotgym 2y ago> To prevent China from building whizzy AI chips, America has barred ASML from selling its most advanced gear to Chinese chipmakers. Isn't that the craziest thing? America can prevent the Netherlands selling goods to China. Isolationist America? What did they threaten the Netherlands with, I wonder?
- stevenwoo 2y agoIt’s part of the license agreement ASML signed to commercialize ultra violet lithography since the idea originated in Lawrence Livermore Labs research.
- mytailorisrich 2y agoSure but even without this if the US told the Netherlands to jump they would. The US have a huge influence over the Netherlands economically, politically, and militarily (their airforce is a US hardware showroom, basically, which also highlights the political influence). Just the fact that some tech comes for Lawrence Livermore Labs shows that relations are "tight".
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> US have a huge influence over the Netherlands economically, politically, and militarily It's important to remember that this influence is a product of goodwill. (Wouldn't have thought I'd have to mention this a year ago...) The Dutch are beginning to decouple from America [1] because despite those economic and military ties, if it isn't supported politically and culturally, it's difficult to project. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43401487 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43401487
- mytailorisrich 2y agoWhy do people repeat and believe this "goodwill" propaganda? Countries don't behave out of goodwill, they do out of interests. Same as now. This "decoupling" angle is a product of interests in the EU "deep state", which sees an apportubity to do a power grab. Note how suddenly the EU tries to insert itself in military matters... and people buy it hook, line, and sinker, too.
- unit149 2y ago[dead]
- gizajob 2y agoGood luck cloning that machine.
- elorant 2y agoEUV lithography machines are borderline science fiction. I mean if you look at all the steps included it's mind boggling. Shooting tiny droplets of tin with two lasers at a speed of 50k times/second, harvesting uv light through atomic precision mirrors, moving wafers with nanometer precision and all that in perfect vacuum. You watch the video demos and seems like you're watching a sf movie.
- tonyhart7 2y agothat's just laser with mirror machine that beep really fast
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- kristianp 2y agoIt just seems tremendously inefficient. Power in vs useful power out is huge. What's stopping them from "just" making a uv laser? I'm guessing tin is the only material with the right size of band gap to emit at the required frequency. Nonpaywalled link: https://archive.is/flU0v https://archive.is/flU0v
- philipkglass 2y agoSemiconductors with direct band gaps like gallium nitride can be used to make light emitting diodes (both incoherent light and lasers). Gallium nitride emits light around 405 nanometers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallium_nitride https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallium_nitride The light wavelength is proportional to the band gap. GaN has a 3.4 electron volt band gap. To get a 13.5 nanometer emission, you'd need a direct band gap material in excess of 90 electron volts: https://www.kmlabs.com/en/wavelength-to-photon-energy-calculator https://www.kmlabs.com/en/wavelength-to-photon-energy-calcul... No such materials exist. The emission from tin in EUV light sources is actually from thermal (blackbody) radiation. The infrared lasers heat tin vapor to extremely high temperatures where it shines into the extreme ultraviolet. It's inherently wasteful but this extreme ultraviolet range is much harder to access than visible light or near ultraviolet.
- carabiner 2y agoCould this fail in some way and cause a resonance cascade?
- sadhorse 2y agoNot if we follow strict operating procedures, Gordon.
- garyclarke27 2y agoInteresting $350M similar price to an Airbus 380 when it was sold new. Still no where near Ford class Aircraft carrier at $13 billion each.
- tetris11 2y agoRemind me again why we're in an AI arms race? What's the end goal. Market dominance for a few years?
- cakemedia 2y agoWhoever is planning on building a self-sufficient off-world colony for the survival of the human race, don’t forget to invite ASML along for the trip! How many decades away are we from being able to manufacture high-end consumer-grade silicon somewhere other than on earth? It makes the challenges of safe habitation and providing other essential resources seem much simpler by comparison.