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I remember working for a small agency in London with a bit of a top-heavy management structure. Many times would my shoulder be subtly gazed over to "check on p

I remember working for a small agency in London with a bit of a top-heavy management structure. Many times would my shoulder be subtly gazed over to "check on progress". I ended up using IRSSI to chat with friends, wgets to read my fav blogs, and my twitter stream pouring into what looked like an excel spreadsheet UI . I always got my work done in the first couple hours of the day. I will always resent those managers, and the time spent wasted sitting in office chairs whiling away hours to meet some pointless proxy of worth: time and physical presence. A worse experience I had previously was a manager who could remote-log-in to my machine at random times to spot-monitor my work. I'd see a little icon pop up in the menubar which would tell me he was there, so I'd make haste to busy myself with the appearance of grokking hard code. May he find a never-peace in purgatory.

_cenw 2y ago
They just don't get that some people can't spread their time into perfectly equal slices of productivity. Remote work and flexible time has allowed me to work a big productive burst in the morning and in the late evening, spaced way more than 8 hours apart, with busywork somewhere in the middle. Probably wouldn't work this well if I had to do that in an office, in a single 8 hour (or 4+1+4) segment.
- jimmydddd 2y ago
  This is my issue. For whatever reason, i used to get most of my work done between 4PM and 10PM. Unfortunately, I had to be at my desk at 9AM.
- mystified5016 2y ago
  That's why I'm so happy to have a salaried job with lax office hours. For whatever reason, I'm also really productive before noon and after 6. The middle of the day is mostly a waste. At current job, I work when I'm most productive and more or less goof off the rest of the time. I'm one of the most (if not the most) productive members of the company so boss can't complain. But also I can't tolerate WFH for more than a few days at a time. I need external structure to tell my brain that it's work time.
jahnu 2y ago
The Lynx browser came in handy for these sort of situations in the past for me too https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynx_(web_browser) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynx_(web_browser)
bboygravity 2y ago
I can't help but think that there must be some arbitrage opportunity there: massive companies hire top notch engineers and all make them waste their time in (commute to/from) offices. What if someone comes along and is like "I'm going to provide the exact same service, but without offices and everybody works from home". That company would have a competitive edge, because: people from the established company would have a reason to work for WFH company instead, WFH company would have significantly less expenses (more profits/budgets). Does the fact that WFH is not a thing mean that in the real world, for most people, coming to the office IS actually more efficient? Or does this just need more time? I'm honestly not sure, but I've sure been tempted to start a competitor to very silly old fashion "you shall come here and sit at a computer where I can see you" type companies.
- muspimerol 2y ago
  > Does the fact that WFH is not a thing mean that in the real world, for most people, coming to the office IS actually more efficient? I don't think the labor market is efficient to such a degree that we can draw this conclusion. Lots of startups are doing this, but it takes time, capital and luck to achieve the success of the big corporate competitors, which have a huge amount of middle management who hate WFH.
  - dijit 2y ago
    There is also the danger of being successful and then acquired by a big tech. You will then be folded into the organisation, maybe the initially hired staff will retain certain perks but they will be eroded with time, and new joiners to the project would never be afforded the same.
- IshKebab 2y ago
  What do you mean WFH is not a thing? Since the pandemic it's a huge thing.
  - bboygravity 2y ago
    It's non-existent in Western Europe around my field (electronics & embedded programming of small products that can easily be taken home in a backpack). I mean there are tons of companies offering 1 or 2 day WFH, but what I was referring to was 100% remote. No office.
ionwake 2y ago
After 20 years working in and around London in IT I empathise. Thx for sharing this story.
varispeed 2y ago
Most of the programming I do outside of computer. I like to think everything through in my head before I type something in. I see no value in putting something that maybe works maybe not and then fiddling with it. That would slow me down too much. That said I also have ADHD so I can't stare at IDE whole day. One time a junior developer complained about me to the manager, that I spend most time on Reddit or outside of office (some best work I created whilst walking in the park). Manager called me in and said there are complaints from team members that apparently I am "slacking". I asked him if I deliver on time and whether there were any complaints about my output. He said no. I was back to my desk. I had no further complaints. Though that manager and that developer were sacked couple of weeks later for poor performance.
Artoooooor 2y ago
Did the stream include sound? Certain music genres can discourage the boss from logging in again:)
stef25 2y ago
> a manager who could remote-log-in to my machine That's diabolical
forinti 2y ago
I've never had such intrusive management, but I have worked at places where I had to justify every minute of the day. So my tasks were inflationed to occupy the whole day on those days I didn't have enough work for 8 hours. That really messes up your statistics.
mrweasel 2y ago
> a manager who could remote-log-in to my machine at random times to spot-monitor my work Is that a British thing? I've only ever heard that from people working in the UK, but there it doesn't seem to be uncommon.

_cenw 2y ago

They just don't get that some people can't spread their time into perfectly equal slices of productivity. Remote work and flexible time has allowed me to work a big productive burst in the morning and in the late evening, spaced way more than 8 hours apart, with busywork somewhere in the middle. Probably wouldn't work this well if I had to do that in an office, in a single 8 hour (or 4+1+4) segment.

jimmydddd 2y ago
This is my issue. For whatever reason, i used to get most of my work done between 4PM and 10PM. Unfortunately, I had to be at my desk at 9AM.
mystified5016 2y ago
That's why I'm so happy to have a salaried job with lax office hours. For whatever reason, I'm also really productive before noon and after 6. The middle of the day is mostly a waste. At current job, I work when I'm most productive and more or less goof off the rest of the time. I'm one of the most (if not the most) productive members of the company so boss can't complain. But also I can't tolerate WFH for more than a few days at a time. I need external structure to tell my brain that it's work time.

jahnu 2y ago

The Lynx browser came in handy for these sort of situations in the past for me too https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynx_(web_browser) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynx_(web_browser)

bboygravity 2y ago

I can't help but think that there must be some arbitrage opportunity there: massive companies hire top notch engineers and all make them waste their time in (commute to/from) offices. What if someone comes along and is like "I'm going to provide the exact same service, but without offices and everybody works from home". That company would have a competitive edge, because: people from the established company would have a reason to work for WFH company instead, WFH company would have significantly less expenses (more profits/budgets). Does the fact that WFH is not a thing mean that in the real world, for most people, coming to the office IS actually more efficient? Or does this just need more time? I'm honestly not sure, but I've sure been tempted to start a competitor to very silly old fashion "you shall come here and sit at a computer where I can see you" type companies.

muspimerol 2y ago
> Does the fact that WFH is not a thing mean that in the real world, for most people, coming to the office IS actually more efficient? I don't think the labor market is efficient to such a degree that we can draw this conclusion. Lots of startups are doing this, but it takes time, capital and luck to achieve the success of the big corporate competitors, which have a huge amount of middle management who hate WFH.
- dijit 2y ago
  There is also the danger of being successful and then acquired by a big tech. You will then be folded into the organisation, maybe the initially hired staff will retain certain perks but they will be eroded with time, and new joiners to the project would never be afforded the same.
IshKebab 2y ago
What do you mean WFH is not a thing? Since the pandemic it's a huge thing.
- bboygravity 2y ago
  It's non-existent in Western Europe around my field (electronics & embedded programming of small products that can easily be taken home in a backpack). I mean there are tons of companies offering 1 or 2 day WFH, but what I was referring to was 100% remote. No office.

ionwake 2y ago

After 20 years working in and around London in IT I empathise. Thx for sharing this story.

varispeed 2y ago

Most of the programming I do outside of computer. I like to think everything through in my head before I type something in. I see no value in putting something that maybe works maybe not and then fiddling with it. That would slow me down too much. That said I also have ADHD so I can't stare at IDE whole day. One time a junior developer complained about me to the manager, that I spend most time on Reddit or outside of office (some best work I created whilst walking in the park). Manager called me in and said there are complaints from team members that apparently I am "slacking". I asked him if I deliver on time and whether there were any complaints about my output. He said no. I was back to my desk. I had no further complaints. Though that manager and that developer were sacked couple of weeks later for poor performance.

Artoooooor 2y ago

Did the stream include sound? Certain music genres can discourage the boss from logging in again:)

stef25 2y ago

> a manager who could remote-log-in to my machine That's diabolical

forinti 2y ago

I've never had such intrusive management, but I have worked at places where I had to justify every minute of the day. So my tasks were inflationed to occupy the whole day on those days I didn't have enough work for 8 hours. That really messes up your statistics.

mrweasel 2y ago

> a manager who could remote-log-in to my machine at random times to spot-monitor my work Is that a British thing? I've only ever heard that from people working in the UK, but there it doesn't seem to be uncommon.