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> China is our better bet in this coming disaster. The US values democracy and free speech more than any other country. The EU only somewhat shares these value

> China is our better bet in this coming disaster. The US values democracy and free speech more than any other country. The EU only somewhat shares these values, which we can see from the normalization of censorship in its regulations, frequent calls to ban political parties, and the cancellation of election results in Romania. Europe has a vast history of expansionism, which we saw in brutal colonization across Africa, Asia, and the Americas. Greenland itself is a result of expansionism. China is also a country that is pro censorship and doesn’t value democracy. It annexed Tibet and Xinjiang and will do the same to Taiwan. The CCP has caused tens of millions in deaths, not just in the annexed areas but even among its own people. I can see Europeans practicing some of those same authoritarian tactics China does. So maybe I shouldn’t be surprised at this statement of viewing China as a better partner. But it still seems odd to see people here admitting that they prefer an authoritarian dictatorship as their friend. In my opinion it says more about Europe than America.

holyra 2y ago
> The US values democracy and free speech more than any other country. Trump is destroying democracy and free speech (notably press freedom). Regarding freedom, I don't buy the US vision. The US culture values individual freedom at the expense of the many. From my point of view, freedom is not possible without equality between people. Otherwise, some people impose their will (their freedom) on others. In this sense, regulation is an instrument of freedom.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  > Trump is destroying democracy and free speech (notably press freedom). Can you name specifics? What freedom does the press not have that they had a few months ago? How is there any less democracy now than before? Nothing has changed about the rights of people to vote or publish - if anything these things are getting better by removing wasteful spending propping up one side of the press, stopping illegal immigration, etc. > The US culture values individual freedom at the expense of the many. From my point of view, freedom is not possible without equality between people. It’s an interesting point that I need to think more about. Personally, I still think individual freedom is the only real freedom. The US law is well thought out in limiting individual “rights” in minor ways (like not being able to harm others) while preserving most of it. Those choices let everyone live freely and more equally than any other system.
  - immibis 2y ago
    How about those Palestine protestors having their citizenship revoked for expressing their opinion? Supporting Palestine is illegal in Europe too, of course, but they haven't revoked citizenships over it (yet).
    - nradov 2y ago
      No one has had their US citizenship revoked. Some legal permanent residents (not citizens) who have supported terrorist organizations such as Hamas might be deported depending on the outcomes of their court cases. I don't support those actions but let's be clear about what's actually happening. https://www.npr.org/2025/03/10/nx-s1-5323166/arrest-green-card-palestinian-protest https://www.npr.org/2025/03/10/nx-s1-5323166/arrest-green-ca... Generally citizenship can only be revoked from a naturalized US citizen if the government proves some sort of fraud on their application.
      - immibis 2y ago
        Please note that according to the US government, protesting is "supporting Hamas" and therefore valid grounds for denaturalization and deportation.
    - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
      Expressing their opinion? The protestors literally assaulted Jewish students. They illegally took over property. They prevented people from accessing the classes they pay for. This was an illegal riot and terroristic to any observer. Also no one has their citizenship revoked. People who are immigrants but not yet citizens are getting booted for breaking the law in numerous ways, including supporting sanctioned terrorist groups. It goes well beyond legally protected speech, even for America.
      - immibis 2y ago
        Did the ones that are being denaturalized assault Jewish students, or is it guilt by association?
wolvesechoes 2y ago
"The US values democracy and free speech more than any other country" I hope we will finally make peace with reality and stop giving sh*t about things valued in this or that country. It is completely irrelevant for the EU what US values or loves and what kinds of authoritarian practices are present in China. What matters is what they can give us and what do they want in return. US makes it clear it won't give us anything, and will demand a lot. It is China, then.

holyra 2y ago

> The US values democracy and free speech more than any other country. Trump is destroying democracy and free speech (notably press freedom). Regarding freedom, I don't buy the US vision. The US culture values individual freedom at the expense of the many. From my point of view, freedom is not possible without equality between people. Otherwise, some people impose their will (their freedom) on others. In this sense, regulation is an instrument of freedom.

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
> Trump is destroying democracy and free speech (notably press freedom). Can you name specifics? What freedom does the press not have that they had a few months ago? How is there any less democracy now than before? Nothing has changed about the rights of people to vote or publish - if anything these things are getting better by removing wasteful spending propping up one side of the press, stopping illegal immigration, etc. > The US culture values individual freedom at the expense of the many. From my point of view, freedom is not possible without equality between people. It’s an interesting point that I need to think more about. Personally, I still think individual freedom is the only real freedom. The US law is well thought out in limiting individual “rights” in minor ways (like not being able to harm others) while preserving most of it. Those choices let everyone live freely and more equally than any other system.
- immibis 2y ago
  How about those Palestine protestors having their citizenship revoked for expressing their opinion? Supporting Palestine is illegal in Europe too, of course, but they haven't revoked citizenships over it (yet).
  - nradov 2y ago
    No one has had their US citizenship revoked. Some legal permanent residents (not citizens) who have supported terrorist organizations such as Hamas might be deported depending on the outcomes of their court cases. I don't support those actions but let's be clear about what's actually happening. https://www.npr.org/2025/03/10/nx-s1-5323166/arrest-green-card-palestinian-protest https://www.npr.org/2025/03/10/nx-s1-5323166/arrest-green-ca... Generally citizenship can only be revoked from a naturalized US citizen if the government proves some sort of fraud on their application.
    - immibis 2y ago
      Please note that according to the US government, protesting is "supporting Hamas" and therefore valid grounds for denaturalization and deportation.
  - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
    Expressing their opinion? The protestors literally assaulted Jewish students. They illegally took over property. They prevented people from accessing the classes they pay for. This was an illegal riot and terroristic to any observer. Also no one has their citizenship revoked. People who are immigrants but not yet citizens are getting booted for breaking the law in numerous ways, including supporting sanctioned terrorist groups. It goes well beyond legally protected speech, even for America.
    - immibis 2y ago
      Did the ones that are being denaturalized assault Jewish students, or is it guilt by association?

wolvesechoes 2y ago

"The US values democracy and free speech more than any other country" I hope we will finally make peace with reality and stop giving sh*t about things valued in this or that country. It is completely irrelevant for the EU what US values or loves and what kinds of authoritarian practices are present in China. What matters is what they can give us and what do they want in return. US makes it clear it won't give us anything, and will demand a lot. It is China, then.