6 ms·

Can you define your hydrogen colors for us? It sounds like you have something interesting to say, but I can’t parse what it is out of your company’s jargon.

originalvichy 2y ago
These are quite obvious for anyone who has been following energy tech at a surface level.
D_Alex 2y ago
"Blue hydrogen" is commonly used for hydrogen produced from natural gas. If it is produced by steam reforming (most common), then the associated CO2 emissions are worse than if you just burn the natural gas directly. "Green hydrogen" is usually hydrogen produced from water by electrolysis, using electricity from non-CO2 source, e.g. wind or electricity.
- ajb 2y ago
  Blue hydrogen is supposed to capture the carbon. If its just emitted, then it's grey hydrogen: https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/energy-explained/hydrogen-colour-spectrum https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/energy-explained/hydrog...
  - D_Alex 2y ago
    You are entirely correct.
  - tialaramex 2y ago
    Right, if you "oops" don't have working capture because it's never been practical you're making "Blue" hydrogen in which your customers can tell everybody they're environmentally friendly but due to a technical hitch you are emitting lots of CO2. Maybe you can agree a token $1B fine, of course offset against the taxes you were already going to pay, and everybody carries on as before. Hooray for your profitable corporation and oops, too bad for the stupid humans who live on the gradually less inhabitable planet you're destroying. This would only be really dumb if the corporation was owned by humans. Huh.
    - 1oooqooq 2y ago
      1bi fine? i wish. they just sign up for those carbon buyback scams and won't cost more than 20mi, including the bribes.
krisoft 2y ago
Blue hydrogen is produced from natural gas. Green hydrogen is produced from electrolysis of water where the energy is comming from a renevable source. (Imagine solar panels which are directly connected to an electrolysis plant.) “Green-ish” hydrogen is produced from electrolysis of water where the energy is comming from the grid. (And thus as green as your grid is.)
- jasonkester 2y ago
  Thanks. Any idea what “grey” would mean in this context?
  - iamthemonster 2y ago
    Grey hydrogen is produced from natural gas Blue hydrogen is produced from natural gas with carbon capture
MayeulC 2y ago
These are common terms. A random link: https://www.weforum.org/stories/2021/07/clean-energy-green-hydrogen/ https://www.weforum.org/stories/2021/07/clean-energy-green-h... * Green: produced from surplus renewable capacity (electrolysis) * Black, brown, grey: convert various fossil fuels to hydrogen via steam reforming. Basically strip carbon from hydrocarbons, emitting a lot of CO2. * Blue: same as black/brown/Greg but with carbon capture. There are other (less common) shades as well.
- AlexandrB 2y ago
  And Green is a huge efficiency loss. I suppose if the energy used to do it truly "green" and "surplus"... > As of 2022, commercial electrolysis requires around 53 kWh of electricity to produce one kg of hydrogen, which holds 39.4 kWh (HHV) of energy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis_of_water https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis_of_water
  - wisty 2y ago
    20% loss isn't really "huge", is it? 10% of power is lost to distribution anyway. Batteries can also lose 10%. The issue with hydrogen isn't producing it, it's that it's an absolute nightmare to transport and store. Hydrogen can soak into metals, causing them to become brittle - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement and it leaks if there's absolutely any chance of it possibly leaking (thanks to the small molecules, and its tendancy to cause everything it touches to go brittle), and can cause a very big bang if it does leak. It might work well for planes (where power to weight is at an absolute premium) but for cars and buses the weight of a bigger but tamer battery just makes more sense. It's absolutely a good rocket fuel. The issue isn't that it can't be green. The issue is that it's rocket fuel - high performance but dangerous and high maintenance. Putting rocket fuel in a bus is just dumb.
    - Loudergood 2y ago
      Ok now added hydrogen losses due to distribution and storage.

originalvichy 2y ago

These are quite obvious for anyone who has been following energy tech at a surface level.

D_Alex 2y ago

"Blue hydrogen" is commonly used for hydrogen produced from natural gas. If it is produced by steam reforming (most common), then the associated CO2 emissions are worse than if you just burn the natural gas directly. "Green hydrogen" is usually hydrogen produced from water by electrolysis, using electricity from non-CO2 source, e.g. wind or electricity.

ajb 2y ago
Blue hydrogen is supposed to capture the carbon. If its just emitted, then it's grey hydrogen: https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/energy-explained/hydrogen-colour-spectrum https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/energy-explained/hydrog...
- D_Alex 2y ago
  You are entirely correct.
- tialaramex 2y ago
  Right, if you "oops" don't have working capture because it's never been practical you're making "Blue" hydrogen in which your customers can tell everybody they're environmentally friendly but due to a technical hitch you are emitting lots of CO2. Maybe you can agree a token $1B fine, of course offset against the taxes you were already going to pay, and everybody carries on as before. Hooray for your profitable corporation and oops, too bad for the stupid humans who live on the gradually less inhabitable planet you're destroying. This would only be really dumb if the corporation was owned by humans. Huh.
  - 1oooqooq 2y ago
    1bi fine? i wish. they just sign up for those carbon buyback scams and won't cost more than 20mi, including the bribes.

krisoft 2y ago

Blue hydrogen is produced from natural gas. Green hydrogen is produced from electrolysis of water where the energy is comming from a renevable source. (Imagine solar panels which are directly connected to an electrolysis plant.) “Green-ish” hydrogen is produced from electrolysis of water where the energy is comming from the grid. (And thus as green as your grid is.)

jasonkester 2y ago
Thanks. Any idea what “grey” would mean in this context?
- iamthemonster 2y ago
  Grey hydrogen is produced from natural gas Blue hydrogen is produced from natural gas with carbon capture

MayeulC 2y ago

These are common terms. A random link: https://www.weforum.org/stories/2021/07/clean-energy-green-hydrogen/ https://www.weforum.org/stories/2021/07/clean-energy-green-h... * Green: produced from surplus renewable capacity (electrolysis) * Black, brown, grey: convert various fossil fuels to hydrogen via steam reforming. Basically strip carbon from hydrocarbons, emitting a lot of CO2. * Blue: same as black/brown/Greg but with carbon capture. There are other (less common) shades as well.

AlexandrB 2y ago
And Green is a huge efficiency loss. I suppose if the energy used to do it truly "green" and "surplus"... > As of 2022, commercial electrolysis requires around 53 kWh of electricity to produce one kg of hydrogen, which holds 39.4 kWh (HHV) of energy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis_of_water https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis_of_water
- wisty 2y ago
  20% loss isn't really "huge", is it? 10% of power is lost to distribution anyway. Batteries can also lose 10%. The issue with hydrogen isn't producing it, it's that it's an absolute nightmare to transport and store. Hydrogen can soak into metals, causing them to become brittle - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement and it leaks if there's absolutely any chance of it possibly leaking (thanks to the small molecules, and its tendancy to cause everything it touches to go brittle), and can cause a very big bang if it does leak. It might work well for planes (where power to weight is at an absolute premium) but for cars and buses the weight of a bigger but tamer battery just makes more sense. It's absolutely a good rocket fuel. The issue isn't that it can't be green. The issue is that it's rocket fuel - high performance but dangerous and high maintenance. Putting rocket fuel in a bus is just dumb.
  - Loudergood 2y ago
    Ok now added hydrogen losses due to distribution and storage.