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> who they'd happily supply with details to get rid of the green bubble problem I would be surprised if this eliminates green bubbles. iMessage supports many f

> who they'd happily supply with details to get rid of the green bubble problem I would be surprised if this eliminates green bubbles. iMessage supports many features unavailable over RCS on Android devices. These would still be disabled and Apple needs a way to indicate a degraded feature set to iMessage users.

MBCook 2y ago
Yep. They’re never going away. Blue = iMessage Green = Other It doesn’t matter if both support 100% identical feature sets, it’s gonna stay like that.
- h0l0cube 2y ago
  At least the false pretence would vanish if both support 100%
  - MBCook 2y ago
    What false pretense? They dictate two different ways of sending messages with different capabilities.
    - h0l0cube 2y ago
      If they were functionally equivalent, why signal a difference? What's the benefit, you think? I'm not saying that they definitely would signal a difference, but in this hypothetical, if the color difference remained, it would be obvious why.
      - zuppy 2y ago
        because they can’t support the same functionality. apple would add something new, they would want no constraints to what they can do.
        h0l0cube 2y ago
        > apple would add something new Once again, I'm engaging with a hypothetical. Indeed this is how it would play out in reality.
      - dwighttk 2y ago
        there's two doors through which the message can leave your phone... the blue door and the green door. (Ignoring the SMS tiny door) If the feature sets of the blue and green door happen to be the same for a time, that doesn't mean a message sent through the green door is "actually" leaving through the blue... The doors are actually different (even if the feature sets are the same (for a time))
        h0l0cube 2y ago
        We were (originally) talking about a mystical magical timeline where the two standards converge. You can make another hypothetical, where they converge, but only temporarily, but that's a new flavor on the hypothetical that was first posed way way back where the thread started. I'm sick of repeating myself, so I'll leave the musing to those who are more invested.
      - MBCook 2y ago
        Branding. It’s that simple.
      - ExoticPearTree 2y ago
        > If they were functionally equivalent, why signal a difference? Equivalent does not mean the same. Sending an actual SMS can cost extra.
  - _bin_ 2y ago
    it's never going to 100%. can't play 8ball with an android
    - h0l0cube 2y ago
      Never said it would be. Just playing hypotheticals with the GGP comment
  - mjlee 2y ago
    What about when either changes? Do you expect them to alternate colour schemes as each protocol plays catch up or gets more features?
    - h0l0cube 2y ago
      I was just engaging with a hypothetical - see my other replies to siblings in this thread if you need clarification. iDevices are my daily drivers, but I don't understand all the fanboys getting triggered here
- jxramos 2y ago
  it does leave the door open for pointing the finger for who's at fault when text groups with OS blends get all scrambled https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255769788?answerId=260779025022&sortBy=rank&page=1#260779025022 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255769788?answerId=2607...
- cubefox 2y ago
  > It doesn’t matter if both support 100% identical feature sets, it’s gonna stay like that. That's completely irrelevant. The problem was (obviously!) always about the incompatibilities rather than the color.
  - klabb3 2y ago
    Not to Google. Green bubbles were a big social shaming issue affecting the sale of Android. This is all in the US only afaik. So in other countries with a similar iPhone market share there isn’t a green bubble social stigma.
    - cubefox 2y ago
      That's false. The color green is irrelevant. If the Apple bubbles had been green, and the Android bubbles had been blue, still the Android bubbles would have been shamed. It was never about the color. It was because of the SMS/iMessage feature incompatibilities.
      - klabb3 2y ago
        Let me spell it out: the arbitrary color lets you identify the ones who use Android. Some people think the reason for using Android is being poor. Others don’t want to be seen as poor, because social posturing is important to them.
        bolognafairy 2y ago
        Social posturing is important to everyone. You probably just socially posture differently.
        cubefox 2y ago
        I don't think it has to do with poverty. There are Android phones that are as expensive as iPhones. It was just because of incompatibility.
        2y ago
- bla3 2y ago
  Really shows how apple is only into privacy when it's self-serving.
  - madeofpalk 2y ago
    How does it show that? Blue bubbles don't mean privacy, and green bubbles don't mean insecure. I would presume encrypted RCS would satisfy privacy, and would remain green to indicate it doesn't support iMessage-specific features.
    - bla3 2y ago
      Because it leaks the device type of your messaging partner.
    - ExoticPearTree 2y ago
      iMessage is encrypted. Blue means the “SMS” was sent over iMessage and it is secure. Green means it was sent as a normal SMS. This is super helpful for non-technical people that want privacy.
      - madeofpalk 2y ago
        > Green means it was sent as a normal SMS No it doesn't, and it would mean that even less when green messages start meaning end-to-end encrypted RCS.
        ExoticPearTree 2y ago
        What does it mean then? Genuine question.
        madeofpalk 2y ago
        Blue means iMessage, and supports iMessage features. Green means not-iMessage and supports SMS / MMS / RCS features. Presumably when Apple rolls this out, both blue and green messages could be end-to-end encrypted. It remains to be seen whether Apple will add an indicator for RCS (and potentially iMessage) encrypted messages. I could imagine them being jerks about it and not indicating when green messages are just as secure as iMessage, or they adjust their messages that iMessage is more secure/private because Apple trusts their own key exchange more than RCS.
- permo-w 2y ago
  do you have evidence for this?
  - MBCook 2y ago
    It’s the way Apple works, and their behavior so far has been consistent. Blue bubbles are a branding thing, they wouldn’t share them with others. Then what’s the point of having the branding? They do actually indicate a difference of functionality. RCS doesn’t support iMessage apps for example, not that those get much use. But like I said, even at parity I think they’d keep the branding.
    - permo-w 2y ago
      the issue is that it simply may not be up to them, at least in Europe. if the EU decides that keeping the blue bubbles contravenes the DMA, then the blue bubbles will go
snypher 2y ago
Just please stop sending the text that reads as follows, it totally destroys group chats and the amount of information conveyed in a react doesn't require quoting back the entire message, eg Liked "I would be surprised if this eliminates green bubbles. iMessage supports many features unavailable over RCS on Android devices. These would still be disabled and Apple needs a way to indicate a degraded feature set to iMessage users."
- MBCook 2y ago
  I thought Android released an update last year to automatically interpret those as display them as reactions.
  - mattmaroon 2y ago
    iOS did it too when communicating with Android but also updated.
- devilbunny 2y ago
  I have never seen a reaction that helped. "OK" is short, it's in plain text, and it works easily. I don't need your thumbs up. Or your like. You want to emoji, go ahead, but I'm getting older and I can't zoom in on them without blowing up general text to the same size. With more complex emoji I have to screenshot the text and then pull up the image to zoom on it to even tell what it is. I'd silence the conversation, except that iMessage won't let you have two identical groups with exactly the same members. So both humorous and serious stuff goes into the same group chat, and it's often very time-sensitive if serious. Then three or four people start joking around, reacting to each other, and suddenly while I'm at dinner (or, my favorite, one hour into a three-hour drive) my phone or watch is going off every twenty seconds for five minutes. I can't ignore them, because one of those dings might be from someone else about something that needs an answer right now. I can't risk forgetting to turn notifications back on. When I still used an Android phone, the max-ten-people SMS rule meant that I was missing important business information - like, for example, I found out that our secretary had cancer when she asked me for restaurant recommendations near MD Anderson Cancer Clinic in Houston. Never occurred to anyone else that I had gotten none of that.

MBCook 2y ago

Yep. They’re never going away. Blue = iMessage Green = Other It doesn’t matter if both support 100% identical feature sets, it’s gonna stay like that.

h0l0cube 2y ago
At least the false pretence would vanish if both support 100%
- MBCook 2y ago
  What false pretense? They dictate two different ways of sending messages with different capabilities.
  - h0l0cube 2y ago
    If they were functionally equivalent, why signal a difference? What's the benefit, you think? I'm not saying that they definitely would signal a difference, but in this hypothetical, if the color difference remained, it would be obvious why.
    - zuppy 2y ago
      because they can’t support the same functionality. apple would add something new, they would want no constraints to what they can do.
      - h0l0cube 2y ago
        > apple would add something new Once again, I'm engaging with a hypothetical. Indeed this is how it would play out in reality.
    - dwighttk 2y ago
      there's two doors through which the message can leave your phone... the blue door and the green door. (Ignoring the SMS tiny door) If the feature sets of the blue and green door happen to be the same for a time, that doesn't mean a message sent through the green door is "actually" leaving through the blue... The doors are actually different (even if the feature sets are the same (for a time))
      - h0l0cube 2y ago
        We were (originally) talking about a mystical magical timeline where the two standards converge. You can make another hypothetical, where they converge, but only temporarily, but that's a new flavor on the hypothetical that was first posed way way back where the thread started. I'm sick of repeating myself, so I'll leave the musing to those who are more invested.
    - MBCook 2y ago
      Branding. It’s that simple.
    - ExoticPearTree 2y ago
      > If they were functionally equivalent, why signal a difference? Equivalent does not mean the same. Sending an actual SMS can cost extra.
- _bin_ 2y ago
  it's never going to 100%. can't play 8ball with an android
  - h0l0cube 2y ago
    Never said it would be. Just playing hypotheticals with the GGP comment
- mjlee 2y ago
  What about when either changes? Do you expect them to alternate colour schemes as each protocol plays catch up or gets more features?
  - h0l0cube 2y ago
    I was just engaging with a hypothetical - see my other replies to siblings in this thread if you need clarification. iDevices are my daily drivers, but I don't understand all the fanboys getting triggered here
jxramos 2y ago
it does leave the door open for pointing the finger for who's at fault when text groups with OS blends get all scrambled https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255769788?answerId=260779025022&sortBy=rank&page=1#260779025022 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255769788?answerId=2607...
cubefox 2y ago
> It doesn’t matter if both support 100% identical feature sets, it’s gonna stay like that. That's completely irrelevant. The problem was (obviously!) always about the incompatibilities rather than the color.
- klabb3 2y ago
  Not to Google. Green bubbles were a big social shaming issue affecting the sale of Android. This is all in the US only afaik. So in other countries with a similar iPhone market share there isn’t a green bubble social stigma.
  - cubefox 2y ago
    That's false. The color green is irrelevant. If the Apple bubbles had been green, and the Android bubbles had been blue, still the Android bubbles would have been shamed. It was never about the color. It was because of the SMS/iMessage feature incompatibilities.
    - klabb3 2y ago
      Let me spell it out: the arbitrary color lets you identify the ones who use Android. Some people think the reason for using Android is being poor. Others don’t want to be seen as poor, because social posturing is important to them.
      - bolognafairy 2y ago
        Social posturing is important to everyone. You probably just socially posture differently.
      - cubefox 2y ago
        I don't think it has to do with poverty. There are Android phones that are as expensive as iPhones. It was just because of incompatibility.
        2y ago
bla3 2y ago
Really shows how apple is only into privacy when it's self-serving.
- madeofpalk 2y ago
  How does it show that? Blue bubbles don't mean privacy, and green bubbles don't mean insecure. I would presume encrypted RCS would satisfy privacy, and would remain green to indicate it doesn't support iMessage-specific features.
  - bla3 2y ago
    Because it leaks the device type of your messaging partner.
  - ExoticPearTree 2y ago
    iMessage is encrypted. Blue means the “SMS” was sent over iMessage and it is secure. Green means it was sent as a normal SMS. This is super helpful for non-technical people that want privacy.
    - madeofpalk 2y ago
      > Green means it was sent as a normal SMS No it doesn't, and it would mean that even less when green messages start meaning end-to-end encrypted RCS.
      - ExoticPearTree 2y ago
        What does it mean then? Genuine question.
        madeofpalk 2y ago
        Blue means iMessage, and supports iMessage features. Green means not-iMessage and supports SMS / MMS / RCS features. Presumably when Apple rolls this out, both blue and green messages could be end-to-end encrypted. It remains to be seen whether Apple will add an indicator for RCS (and potentially iMessage) encrypted messages. I could imagine them being jerks about it and not indicating when green messages are just as secure as iMessage, or they adjust their messages that iMessage is more secure/private because Apple trusts their own key exchange more than RCS.
permo-w 2y ago
do you have evidence for this?
- MBCook 2y ago
  It’s the way Apple works, and their behavior so far has been consistent. Blue bubbles are a branding thing, they wouldn’t share them with others. Then what’s the point of having the branding? They do actually indicate a difference of functionality. RCS doesn’t support iMessage apps for example, not that those get much use. But like I said, even at parity I think they’d keep the branding.
  - permo-w 2y ago
    the issue is that it simply may not be up to them, at least in Europe. if the EU decides that keeping the blue bubbles contravenes the DMA, then the blue bubbles will go

snypher 2y ago

Just please stop sending the text that reads as follows, it totally destroys group chats and the amount of information conveyed in a react doesn't require quoting back the entire message, eg Liked "I would be surprised if this eliminates green bubbles. iMessage supports many features unavailable over RCS on Android devices. These would still be disabled and Apple needs a way to indicate a degraded feature set to iMessage users."

MBCook 2y ago
I thought Android released an update last year to automatically interpret those as display them as reactions.
- mattmaroon 2y ago
  iOS did it too when communicating with Android but also updated.
devilbunny 2y ago
I have never seen a reaction that helped. "OK" is short, it's in plain text, and it works easily. I don't need your thumbs up. Or your like. You want to emoji, go ahead, but I'm getting older and I can't zoom in on them without blowing up general text to the same size. With more complex emoji I have to screenshot the text and then pull up the image to zoom on it to even tell what it is. I'd silence the conversation, except that iMessage won't let you have two identical groups with exactly the same members. So both humorous and serious stuff goes into the same group chat, and it's often very time-sensitive if serious. Then three or four people start joking around, reacting to each other, and suddenly while I'm at dinner (or, my favorite, one hour into a three-hour drive) my phone or watch is going off every twenty seconds for five minutes. I can't ignore them, because one of those dings might be from someone else about something that needs an answer right now. I can't risk forgetting to turn notifications back on. When I still used an Android phone, the max-ten-people SMS rule meant that I was missing important business information - like, for example, I found out that our secretary had cancer when she asked me for restaurant recommendations near MD Anderson Cancer Clinic in Houston. Never occurred to anyone else that I had gotten none of that.