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Back in 2003, President George W. Bush announced the Hydrogen Fuel Initiative. At the time, people criticized the effort as an attempt by the oil industry to sh

Back in 2003, President George W. Bush announced the Hydrogen Fuel Initiative. At the time, people criticized the effort as an attempt by the oil industry to shift attention away from electric cars. The oil industry knew that hydrogen power wasn't going to be viable anytime soon, while electric cars were already a direct threat to their profits, so they pushed the US government towards hydrogen power. Not to disparage the talented scientists and engineers working on hydrogen power, but now that 20 years have passed I believe it was designed to fail.

yummypaint 2y ago
It absolutely was. In the event that breakthroughs happened and it became viable faster than expected, the backup plan was to get the hydrogen from fossil fuels to make sure the industry would still get its cut.
- analog31 2y ago
  Isn't that the only plan right now? Is commercially viable hydrogen being made from any process other than the shift reaction?
  - yummypaint 2y ago
    Back when the Bush admin was hyping this stuff they managed to get the media to talk mostly about electrolysis of water using solar power. They would talk about how only water comes out the tailpipe, and the symmetry of being able to reuse water to make more fuel was extremely appealing to the credulous minds of the public. Nothing has really changed either, 20 years later and laypeople still don't have better information about this technology...
- chrisco255 2y ago
  You realize you can just as easily (if not more so) produce electricity with fossil fuels, right?
isametry 2y ago
See also: the plot of Cars 2. I’m only semi-joking. https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Allinol https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Allinol
chrisco255 2y ago
In 2003 there were no viable or mass market electric cars at all. What a made up narrative.
- calibas 2y ago
  What about electric cars wasn't "viable" in 2003? That was the year Toyota released their all electric RAV4 in California... Unlike hydrogen, there was already whole highly-developed system for production and distribution of electricity. Also, you're mistaken about my "made up narrative". I'm not claiming electric cars were mass market, I'm strongly implying there were forces at work fighting against that very thing!
  - kergonath 2y ago
    > What about electric cars wasn't "viable" in 2003? That was the year Toyota released their all electric RAV4 in California Musk was very effective in pushing the narrative that there was nothing before Tesla.
    - chrisco255 2y ago
      I was alive in 2003. There were no mass market electrics on the road. The RAV4 nickel-metal hydride plug-in hybrid from 97-03 sold a grand total of 1400 units. Nickel MH batteries were notorious for losing range quickly, having a memory if recharged frequently from only partial discharge, losing 20-50% of their charge per month on self-discharge alone, having far less energy density than lithium, only lasting for 500-1000 cycles etc. Electric vehicles only became viable with the advent of cheap lithium ion batteries due to mass market laptop and cell phone production of said batteries in the late-00s.
      - calibas 2y ago
        > The RAV4 nickel-metal hydride plug-in hybrid from 97-03 sold a grand total of 1400 units. FYI, it wasn't a hybrid. And your statement is a bit misleading. 1400 sales sounds pathetic, until you realize that means they completely sold out. 1400 was all they ever made.

yummypaint 2y ago

It absolutely was. In the event that breakthroughs happened and it became viable faster than expected, the backup plan was to get the hydrogen from fossil fuels to make sure the industry would still get its cut.

analog31 2y ago
Isn't that the only plan right now? Is commercially viable hydrogen being made from any process other than the shift reaction?
- yummypaint 2y ago
  Back when the Bush admin was hyping this stuff they managed to get the media to talk mostly about electrolysis of water using solar power. They would talk about how only water comes out the tailpipe, and the symmetry of being able to reuse water to make more fuel was extremely appealing to the credulous minds of the public. Nothing has really changed either, 20 years later and laypeople still don't have better information about this technology...
chrisco255 2y ago
You realize you can just as easily (if not more so) produce electricity with fossil fuels, right?

isametry 2y ago

See also: the plot of Cars 2. I’m only semi-joking. https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Allinol https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Allinol

chrisco255 2y ago

In 2003 there were no viable or mass market electric cars at all. What a made up narrative.

calibas 2y ago
What about electric cars wasn't "viable" in 2003? That was the year Toyota released their all electric RAV4 in California... Unlike hydrogen, there was already whole highly-developed system for production and distribution of electricity. Also, you're mistaken about my "made up narrative". I'm not claiming electric cars were mass market, I'm strongly implying there were forces at work fighting against that very thing!
- kergonath 2y ago
  > What about electric cars wasn't "viable" in 2003? That was the year Toyota released their all electric RAV4 in California Musk was very effective in pushing the narrative that there was nothing before Tesla.
  - chrisco255 2y ago
    I was alive in 2003. There were no mass market electrics on the road. The RAV4 nickel-metal hydride plug-in hybrid from 97-03 sold a grand total of 1400 units. Nickel MH batteries were notorious for losing range quickly, having a memory if recharged frequently from only partial discharge, losing 20-50% of their charge per month on self-discharge alone, having far less energy density than lithium, only lasting for 500-1000 cycles etc. Electric vehicles only became viable with the advent of cheap lithium ion batteries due to mass market laptop and cell phone production of said batteries in the late-00s.
    - calibas 2y ago
      > The RAV4 nickel-metal hydride plug-in hybrid from 97-03 sold a grand total of 1400 units. FYI, it wasn't a hybrid. And your statement is a bit misleading. 1400 sales sounds pathetic, until you realize that means they completely sold out. 1400 was all they ever made.