6 ms·

Should be codified by law: - If a firmware can be updated, it must keep a minimum ROM feature so it can be recovered. - No device should be updated withou

Should be codified by law: - If a firmware can be updated, it must keep a minimum ROM feature so it can be recovered. - No device should be updated without the *owner* explicit intention to do so. - Full docs must be released if the vendor stops supporting it.

mmanfrin 2y ago
> - No device should be updated without the owner explicit intention to do so. Ahh! But you are just leasing the software!! Samsung is technically the owner!!
- tremon 2y ago
  - if the manufacturer retains some form of ownership after "sale", it is obligated to provide free repairs/replacements for the duration of the contract
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
  If it's a lease maybe it should cost money, nobody would buy these stupid pieces of shit if they all had $1 / year peppercorns attached
ethbr1 2y ago
> No device should be updated without the *owner* explicit intention to do so. That point has practical issues, because most consumer electronic customers are technically dumb. Consequently, you end up with a long-tail of deployed device firmware versions, which makes support a nightmare (fix this external integration that broke... across 20 different versions). I'd phrase it more in terms of: - Every device must include an option for owners to disable automatic firmware updates.
- MiddleEndian 2y ago
  >That point has practical issues, because most consumer electronic customers are technically dumb. It's a speaker that worked fine until Samsung unilaterally broke it. I don't think the customers are the dumb ones here.
  - ziddoap 2y ago
    The original comment and the reply are talking generally, not specifically about this one case.
  - davkan 2y ago
    Customers will gladly use an outdated browser or OS with known exploits to access their most sensitive information. Automated updates are necessary evil. Even a smart speaker with a vulnerability could end up as part of a botnet.
    - gr4vityWall 2y ago
      Then we should strive to improve computer literacy. I think technological solutions should still ultimately empower their users.
      - davkan 2y ago
        I can only assume you’ve never worked in desktop support if you think that is something the general populace is remotely interested in. Smartphones are a step in the right direction for the tech illiterate and uninterested. There is zero reason to give lay users enough rope to hang themselves with despite that being the opposite of what I or most users of this site would like for ourselves.
        gr4vityWall 2y ago
        I actually did work with customer support in my very first job :) We had a limited IT crew, so programmers on-site would often go to the users' office to help with software and hardware issues. My anecdote is the opposed of yours: they were interested in knowing why something wasn't working, but only as long as you're willing to be patient, talk slowly, and explain any unknown concepts to them, if required. Insulting them, or just telling them it's their fault something wasn't working would be a sure way to get a negative reaction instead.
        2y ago
- bigbacaloa 2y ago
  [dead]
lopis 2y ago
> No device should be updated without the owner explicit intention to do so. I want to be able to opt-in to updates of my devices with official updates without the fear of them being turned into useless e-waste...
mnau 2y ago
In EU, Cyber Resilience Act requires automatic updates, so the second point is moot. Most owners want just plug and play, so it makes sense. Even third point is pretty moot. We don't do that for hardware, why for software... A component is no longer manufactured? Tough luck, hopefully you stockpiled it.
- Hizonner 2y ago
  Um, that's not what "moot" means.
quotemstr 2y ago
Your second condition practically guarantees proliferation of exploitable IoT devices.
rzz3 2y ago
A law? As an engineer, I really don’t want a bunch of technologically-inept congressmen telling me how I have to build software, firmware, or hardware.
- mateus1 2y ago
  As an engineer you should be familiar with laws and regulations. Try creating health care software without regarding HIPAA, for example, should make for lots of fun and lawsuits!
- evgen 2y ago
  As if engineers actually get to make decisions about software, firmware, or hardware. Ha! That is truly hilarious. I would rather have a bunch of mildly responsive legislators setting the boundaries of what is acceptable than a bunch of middle-managers trying to justify their salary to their private equity overlords.
  - abnercoimbre 2y ago
    An aside: I'm seeing an uptick of class-awareness in HN and that's worth celebrating. It seems "all it took" was the mass-layoff apocalypse.
- Henchman21 2y ago
  As an end user I don’t really care what you want. I want the thing I paid money for to keep working after you’ve disappeared. Otherwise, in my estimation you’ve stolen from me. Prison time is an appropriate remedy for theft.
- agilob 2y ago
  >As an engineer Construction, hardware, radiation, dam and wastewater engineers are highly regulated professions. Do you take responsibility for bugs in your technology? Do you have insurance for your mistakes in professional work? Are you an engineer or a coder? Are you certified to do your job or just passed a boot camp?
- tedunangst 2y ago

mmanfrin 2y ago

> - No device should be updated without the owner explicit intention to do so. Ahh! But you are just leasing the software!! Samsung is technically the owner!!

tremon 2y ago
- if the manufacturer retains some form of ownership after "sale", it is obligated to provide free repairs/replacements for the duration of the contract
01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
If it's a lease maybe it should cost money, nobody would buy these stupid pieces of shit if they all had $1 / year peppercorns attached

ethbr1 2y ago

> No device should be updated without the *owner* explicit intention to do so. That point has practical issues, because most consumer electronic customers are technically dumb. Consequently, you end up with a long-tail of deployed device firmware versions, which makes support a nightmare (fix this external integration that broke... across 20 different versions). I'd phrase it more in terms of: - Every device must include an option for owners to disable automatic firmware updates.

MiddleEndian 2y ago
>That point has practical issues, because most consumer electronic customers are technically dumb. It's a speaker that worked fine until Samsung unilaterally broke it. I don't think the customers are the dumb ones here.
- ziddoap 2y ago
  The original comment and the reply are talking generally, not specifically about this one case.
- davkan 2y ago
  Customers will gladly use an outdated browser or OS with known exploits to access their most sensitive information. Automated updates are necessary evil. Even a smart speaker with a vulnerability could end up as part of a botnet.
  - gr4vityWall 2y ago
    Then we should strive to improve computer literacy. I think technological solutions should still ultimately empower their users.
    - davkan 2y ago
      I can only assume you’ve never worked in desktop support if you think that is something the general populace is remotely interested in. Smartphones are a step in the right direction for the tech illiterate and uninterested. There is zero reason to give lay users enough rope to hang themselves with despite that being the opposite of what I or most users of this site would like for ourselves.
      - gr4vityWall 2y ago
        I actually did work with customer support in my very first job :) We had a limited IT crew, so programmers on-site would often go to the users' office to help with software and hardware issues. My anecdote is the opposed of yours: they were interested in knowing why something wasn't working, but only as long as you're willing to be patient, talk slowly, and explain any unknown concepts to them, if required. Insulting them, or just telling them it's their fault something wasn't working would be a sure way to get a negative reaction instead.
        2y ago
bigbacaloa 2y ago
[dead]

lopis 2y ago

> No device should be updated without the owner explicit intention to do so. I want to be able to opt-in to updates of my devices with official updates without the fear of them being turned into useless e-waste...

mnau 2y ago

In EU, Cyber Resilience Act requires automatic updates, so the second point is moot. Most owners want just plug and play, so it makes sense. Even third point is pretty moot. We don't do that for hardware, why for software... A component is no longer manufactured? Tough luck, hopefully you stockpiled it.

Hizonner 2y ago
Um, that's not what "moot" means.

quotemstr 2y ago

Your second condition practically guarantees proliferation of exploitable IoT devices.

rzz3 2y ago

A law? As an engineer, I really don’t want a bunch of technologically-inept congressmen telling me how I have to build software, firmware, or hardware.

mateus1 2y ago
As an engineer you should be familiar with laws and regulations. Try creating health care software without regarding HIPAA, for example, should make for lots of fun and lawsuits!
evgen 2y ago
As if engineers actually get to make decisions about software, firmware, or hardware. Ha! That is truly hilarious. I would rather have a bunch of mildly responsive legislators setting the boundaries of what is acceptable than a bunch of middle-managers trying to justify their salary to their private equity overlords.
- abnercoimbre 2y ago
  An aside: I'm seeing an uptick of class-awareness in HN and that's worth celebrating. It seems "all it took" was the mass-layoff apocalypse.
Henchman21 2y ago
As an end user I don’t really care what you want. I want the thing I paid money for to keep working after you’ve disappeared. Otherwise, in my estimation you’ve stolen from me. Prison time is an appropriate remedy for theft.
agilob 2y ago
>As an engineer Construction, hardware, radiation, dam and wastewater engineers are highly regulated professions. Do you take responsibility for bugs in your technology? Do you have insurance for your mistakes in professional work? Are you an engineer or a coder? Are you certified to do your job or just passed a boot camp?
tedunangst 2y ago