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I mean, China won't have to, so the AI race would still be over.

noman-land 2y ago
China also doesn't have to care about the will of its people, human rights, freedom of speech, and a bunch of other pesky things that get in the way of doing whatever the fuck you want to people for personal gain.
- thisisnotauser 2y ago
  Seems like it'd be bad to let them win then.
  - hotep99 2y ago
    We can let them dominate us but feel smug and morally superior in the process.
- latentcall 2y ago
  Neither does mine so we’re on equal footing!
kadoban 2y ago
So make the AI models public goods, developed by the government. Why should companies be getting rich on everyone else's work?
- thisisnotauser 2y ago
  Well, I guess most copyright we're talking about here is IP owned by very wealthy corporations, to wit: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/column-intellectual-property-rules-help-the-rich https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/column-intellectual-pro... So I'm not sure that it would really change the status quo for a different group of already rich people to profit off of art created largely by the working poor and owned largely by another group of already rich people. I guess if you think the government can accomplish what you propose, sure. But seems like that's not going to happen. Except maybe in China, and it sounds like that might be even worse for everyone. Thus, it really seems like there's a solid point here that abandoning copyright to allow private investors to get rich stealing art from other rich people who really just stole it from poor people anyways is better than not doing that.
  - kadoban 2y ago
    > So I'm not sure that it would really change the status quo for a different group of already rich people to profit off of art created largely by the working poor and owned largely by another group of already rich people. I did not propose that any rich people profit off of it. It should be a public good. > I guess if you think the government can accomplish what you propose, sure. But seems like that's not going to happen. Except maybe in China, and it sounds like that might be even worse for everyone. Throw it at universities, fund it and organize it well. They can take it from where we are right now.
  - bediger4000 2y ago
    > I guess most copyright we're talking about here is IP owned by very wealthy corporations, They're mostly the entities that can afford to enforce their copyrights. Copyright is for the wealthy, unfortunately.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  What could possibly go wrong giving the same government that is currently deleting information from websites including references to the “Enola Gay” control over models?
  - kadoban 2y ago
    The US needs to fix its government anyway. If they cannot, nothing else matters.
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      Don’t forget that the pearl clutching is on both sides. It was Tipper Gore that thought the world would come to an end because of rap music. Let’s just not give the government any more power in our lives than necessary.
      - kadoban 2y ago
        The current regime is in a fascist power grab and you're both-sidsing some random-ass second lady from a generation ago? Yeah wonder why we can't have effective government. > Let’s just not give the government any more power in our lives than necessary. Let's stop giving corporations all of the power and get a government that actually works for us.
        scarface_74 2y ago
        It doesn’t matter. You should never trust the government with more power than absolutely necessary. Because eventually, the other side will do something you don’t like. This is the government people voted for. The government has a “monopoly on violence”. No corporation can force you to do anything, take away your freedom (the US has the highest incarceration rate of any democracy) or your property (see civil forfeiture). I can much more easily avoid a corporation than the government.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
dmix 2y ago
I don't think people realize how much money has been dumped into other Chinese AI models besides Deepseek, even American VCs like Sequoia are getting involved https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonshot_AI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonshot_AI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baichuan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baichuan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiniMax_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiniMax_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhipu_AI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhipu_AI
- thisisnotauser 2y ago
  It kinda makes sense to spend your dollars where they can actually get used.

China also doesn't have to care about the will of its people, human rights, freedom of speech, and a bunch of other pesky things that get in the way of doing whatever the fuck you want to people for personal gain.

thisisnotauser 2y ago
Seems like it'd be bad to let them win then.
- hotep99 2y ago
  We can let them dominate us but feel smug and morally superior in the process.
latentcall 2y ago
Neither does mine so we’re on equal footing!

kadoban 2y ago

So make the AI models public goods, developed by the government. Why should companies be getting rich on everyone else's work?

thisisnotauser 2y ago
Well, I guess most copyright we're talking about here is IP owned by very wealthy corporations, to wit: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/column-intellectual-property-rules-help-the-rich https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/column-intellectual-pro... So I'm not sure that it would really change the status quo for a different group of already rich people to profit off of art created largely by the working poor and owned largely by another group of already rich people. I guess if you think the government can accomplish what you propose, sure. But seems like that's not going to happen. Except maybe in China, and it sounds like that might be even worse for everyone. Thus, it really seems like there's a solid point here that abandoning copyright to allow private investors to get rich stealing art from other rich people who really just stole it from poor people anyways is better than not doing that.
- kadoban 2y ago
  > So I'm not sure that it would really change the status quo for a different group of already rich people to profit off of art created largely by the working poor and owned largely by another group of already rich people. I did not propose that any rich people profit off of it. It should be a public good. > I guess if you think the government can accomplish what you propose, sure. But seems like that's not going to happen. Except maybe in China, and it sounds like that might be even worse for everyone. Throw it at universities, fund it and organize it well. They can take it from where we are right now.
- bediger4000 2y ago
  > I guess most copyright we're talking about here is IP owned by very wealthy corporations, They're mostly the entities that can afford to enforce their copyrights. Copyright is for the wealthy, unfortunately.
scarface_74 2y ago
What could possibly go wrong giving the same government that is currently deleting information from websites including references to the “Enola Gay” control over models?
- kadoban 2y ago
  The US needs to fix its government anyway. If they cannot, nothing else matters.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    Don’t forget that the pearl clutching is on both sides. It was Tipper Gore that thought the world would come to an end because of rap music. Let’s just not give the government any more power in our lives than necessary.
    - kadoban 2y ago
      The current regime is in a fascist power grab and you're both-sidsing some random-ass second lady from a generation ago? Yeah wonder why we can't have effective government. > Let’s just not give the government any more power in our lives than necessary. Let's stop giving corporations all of the power and get a government that actually works for us.
      - scarface_74 2y ago
        It doesn’t matter. You should never trust the government with more power than absolutely necessary. Because eventually, the other side will do something you don’t like. This is the government people voted for. The government has a “monopoly on violence”. No corporation can force you to do anything, take away your freedom (the US has the highest incarceration rate of any democracy) or your property (see civil forfeiture). I can much more easily avoid a corporation than the government.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]

dmix 2y ago

I don't think people realize how much money has been dumped into other Chinese AI models besides Deepseek, even American VCs like Sequoia are getting involved https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonshot_AI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonshot_AI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baichuan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baichuan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiniMax_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiniMax_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhipu_AI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhipu_AI

thisisnotauser 2y ago
It kinda makes sense to spend your dollars where they can actually get used.