4 ms·

This is abhorrent if true; truly evil behavior.

by wewtyflakes 2y ago

timewizard 2y ago
It's amazing that, on a cursory look, only 11 states make this practice illegal. The "AI scriptown" is growing.
inetknght 2y ago
You might be surprised to learn that they're not the only company to do so.
- speed_spread 2y ago
  Names. We need names.
  - zorpner 2y ago
    Not of companies. Of the people who choose to work for them (or, rather, choose not to stop working for them after they build these "features").
  - vkou 2y ago
    We don't need names, we need legislature, and we need to vote for people who will write it, as opposed to grifters who only seek to pad the pockets of billionaires. These predators aren't scared of name and shame. Any publicity is good publicity (And if it actually gets bad, they'll sue the pants off you.). They are scared shitless of laws censuring their behavior. It's why they fight like mad to ensure that they aren't subject to them.
    - ethagnawl 2y ago
      > These predators aren't scared of name and shame. There are exceptions. See the ongoing kerfuffle over "DOGE" employee lists.
Graziano_M 2y ago
It's definitely shady, but it's par for the course. Uber charges you more if you have more gift cards loaded, or just spend more on average in general. You charge what the market will bear.
- bqmjjx0kac 2y ago
  You charge what the market will bear, not the individual.
  - paulcole 2y ago
    Aren’t they just creating a market of 1?
    - steve_adams_86 2y ago
      "just" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here
      - paulcole 2y ago
        Aren’t they creating a market of 1?
        steve_adams_86 2y ago
        Perfect!
  - edoceo 2y ago
    The market ensure (mostly) there is another individual.
  - satvikpendem 2y ago
    The market is an agglomeration of many individuals, meaning that there is no hard and fast rule that you must charge only one price for the entire market; indeed, many custom-priced products exist, enterprise SaaS being one example.
sudoshred 2y ago
Game theory transcends basic humanity.
B4CKlash 2y ago
What's interesting is that broadly speaking, people acknowledge that negotiating with asymmetric information is immortal or wrong. Take the stock market for example, insider trading is illegal and you don't often hear calls to reverse these laws. But when it comes to private markets and semi-private negotiations that same sentiment doesn't easily transfer. Does society benefit in some unique way for allowing asymmetries in labor negotiations, private markets like Uber, or B2C relations like Robinhood (1,2)? 1. https://www.sec.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2020-321 https://www.sec.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2020-321 2. Note, Robinhood was fined not for front-runniny customers, just for falsely claiming customers received quality orders. I suspect theyve only stopped the latter behavior.
- potato3732842 2y ago
  Incentive wise you're probably a lot better off if your own broker is front running you than if a HFT desk at a liquidity provider firm is doing it since the broker is at least in a position to kick some of that back to you in the form of reduced fees or whatever.
  - collingreen 2y ago
    Might as well get a pat on the head with your punch in the face if you're going to definitely get punched in the face either way. I don't disagree with you, but wow that requires a bleak outlook.
- robertlagrant 2y ago
  > broadly speaking, people acknowledge that negotiating with asymmetric information is immortal or wrong I don't think that's true at all. Companies and individuals negotiate all the time with information the other party doesn't have. Insider trading is about fairness on public markets so every negotiating party of the same type has the same information, and is quite specific to that.
- quickthrowman 2y ago
  > What's interesting is that broadly speaking, people acknowledge that negotiating with asymmetric information is immortal or wrong. They do? I’m quite happy when I have more information than the party I am negotiating with. Do you tell your customers all of the input costs of the product or service you sell? I doubt it. Also, certain parties that trade in public markets have way more information than any retail investor could ever hope to have, hedge funds buy satellite imagery of parking lots, track oil tankers at sea, etc to gain an edge. Insider trading rules are meant to prevent the public bagholding stocks from the management team having insider information that no other market participant could or should have, there are no rules against legally gathering or purchasing information on your own to gain an edge over other market participants.

This is abhorrent if true; truly evil behavior.

timewizard 2y ago

It's amazing that, on a cursory look, only 11 states make this practice illegal. The "AI scriptown" is growing.

inetknght 2y ago

You might be surprised to learn that they're not the only company to do so.

speed_spread 2y ago
Names. We need names.
- zorpner 2y ago
  Not of companies. Of the people who choose to work for them (or, rather, choose not to stop working for them after they build these "features").
- vkou 2y ago
  We don't need names, we need legislature, and we need to vote for people who will write it, as opposed to grifters who only seek to pad the pockets of billionaires. These predators aren't scared of name and shame. Any publicity is good publicity (And if it actually gets bad, they'll sue the pants off you.). They are scared shitless of laws censuring their behavior. It's why they fight like mad to ensure that they aren't subject to them.
  - ethagnawl 2y ago
    > These predators aren't scared of name and shame. There are exceptions. See the ongoing kerfuffle over "DOGE" employee lists.

Graziano_M 2y ago

It's definitely shady, but it's par for the course. Uber charges you more if you have more gift cards loaded, or just spend more on average in general. You charge what the market will bear.

bqmjjx0kac 2y ago
You charge what the market will bear, not the individual.
- paulcole 2y ago
  Aren’t they just creating a market of 1?
  - steve_adams_86 2y ago
    "just" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here
    - paulcole 2y ago
      Aren’t they creating a market of 1?
      - steve_adams_86 2y ago
        Perfect!
- edoceo 2y ago
  The market ensure (mostly) there is another individual.
- satvikpendem 2y ago
  The market is an agglomeration of many individuals, meaning that there is no hard and fast rule that you must charge only one price for the entire market; indeed, many custom-priced products exist, enterprise SaaS being one example.

sudoshred 2y ago

Game theory transcends basic humanity.

B4CKlash 2y ago

What's interesting is that broadly speaking, people acknowledge that negotiating with asymmetric information is immortal or wrong. Take the stock market for example, insider trading is illegal and you don't often hear calls to reverse these laws. But when it comes to private markets and semi-private negotiations that same sentiment doesn't easily transfer. Does society benefit in some unique way for allowing asymmetries in labor negotiations, private markets like Uber, or B2C relations like Robinhood (1,2)? 1. https://www.sec.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2020-321 https://www.sec.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2020-321 2. Note, Robinhood was fined not for front-runniny customers, just for falsely claiming customers received quality orders. I suspect theyve only stopped the latter behavior.

potato3732842 2y ago
Incentive wise you're probably a lot better off if your own broker is front running you than if a HFT desk at a liquidity provider firm is doing it since the broker is at least in a position to kick some of that back to you in the form of reduced fees or whatever.
- collingreen 2y ago
  Might as well get a pat on the head with your punch in the face if you're going to definitely get punched in the face either way. I don't disagree with you, but wow that requires a bleak outlook.
robertlagrant 2y ago
> broadly speaking, people acknowledge that negotiating with asymmetric information is immortal or wrong I don't think that's true at all. Companies and individuals negotiate all the time with information the other party doesn't have. Insider trading is about fairness on public markets so every negotiating party of the same type has the same information, and is quite specific to that.
quickthrowman 2y ago
> What's interesting is that broadly speaking, people acknowledge that negotiating with asymmetric information is immortal or wrong. They do? I’m quite happy when I have more information than the party I am negotiating with. Do you tell your customers all of the input costs of the product or service you sell? I doubt it. Also, certain parties that trade in public markets have way more information than any retail investor could ever hope to have, hedge funds buy satellite imagery of parking lots, track oil tankers at sea, etc to gain an edge. Insider trading rules are meant to prevent the public bagholding stocks from the management team having insider information that no other market participant could or should have, there are no rules against legally gathering or purchasing information on your own to gain an edge over other market participants.