6 ms·

Happy 10k Day

146 points by LorenDB 2y ago

tech234a 2y ago
To clarify per the article: they sold 10K of their current model, the comma 3X, which launched about July 2023. Total sales of all devices is likely higher.
- LorenDB 2y ago
  Thanks, updated the title to reflect that.
- tech234a 2y ago
  Looks like they sold 5.5K of the previous model, the comma 3, according to https://x.com/comma_ai/status/1899579124345405854 https://x.com/comma_ai/status/1899579124345405854
- adeebshihadeh 2y ago
  correct, we’re a little over 20k total
KerryJones 2y ago
Didn't know about this -- that's cool. I'm excited to see where it goes in the future
echelon 2y ago
I've never heard anything about comma.ai's safety. I wonder if it's just not high profile enough to have been involved in public incidents? Also bummer on no FJ Cruiser support. :(
- adenta 2y ago
  I swear by my comma 3. Orlando to Austin, 45 minutes hands on the wheel.
  - adenta 2y ago
    It almost took an exit I didn’t want to take in Louisiana, other than that no major issues. Works well in rain. You are still driving the car, it’s just less intense.
    - nikkwong 2y ago
      What is the experience driving the car? "You are still driving the car"—is it akin to tesla's autopilot, or is the experience difference? In some 3 y'o videos I see individuals driving without hands on the steering wheel—not sure if that is what the experience is like day to day with the device (?).
      - adenta 2y ago
        Yeah I don’t use my hands on the steering wheel when the comma is engaged. Haven’t spent much time in Tesla’s to know how it compares, someone else might know better.
        Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
        In a Tesla, driver monitoring is two-fold. First, it senses the weight of your hand on the wheel. Whenever it steers, it senses the torque on the wheel from your hand. Even if your hand is moving with the wheel, you will end up applying a tiny amount of torque that it senses. However, when driving straight, I often find it warning me to apply a small amount of torque on the steering wheel so it knows my hand is there. Second, there's a camera behind the rear-view mirror that detects your gaze. If it thinks you're looking at your phone or the touch screen for more than a few seconds, it tells you to watch the road.
      - AlotOfReading 2y ago
        The legal situation is the same as FSD. You remain the driver in control at all times, regardless of steering assistance being provided. If you want to drive a car without your hands on the wheel, well that's a personal choice. It's not fundamentally different than taking your hands off the wheel with cruise control engaged.
- dag11 2y ago
  In early 2020 I used a Comma 2 on my Honda Civic for a few weeks. It had one failure, but the way it failed was so alarming I'm hesitant to ever try them again. It not only failed while engaged, but it froze which meant it still showed the bright green outline indicating "I'm still engaged!" with no alert sounds, visual indication of disengagement, or automatic restart. I only noticed something was off when my car started to drift outside the lanes during a curve, which took me longer to notice than necessary because it still looked engaged and it looked like a somewhat typical case of understeering until I started exiting the lane. It also never booted back on again, so something went seriously wrong during an otherwise routine drive. Stock driver assistance systems (e.g. Rivian Driver+, Tesla Autopilot) have redundant computers it can fall back on if the primary fails. If Comma offered a self-contained device that was demonstrably redundant at a hardware level I'd be willing to give it another shot!
sampton 2y ago
If anyone from comma is here, what is the state of transformer based world simulator. I recall watching a talk about it year ago but haven’t heard anything since.
- adeebshihadeh 2y ago
  roughly speaking, the latest policy models trained in it are indistinguishable from openpilot release on 15-30 mins of driving, but you start to notice the subtle issues (e.g. turn cutting) on a few hours of driving. we'll definitely do some good writeups and/or talks once it's shipped.
xp84 2y ago
I'm very interested to hear the experiences of people who are using this. I'm pretty sure my car would support this, but don't want to ruin my car, or of course, die.
- baldeagle 2y ago
  Great product, put it in my RAV4 Prime and it just works. Makes my Bolt EUV super cruise look poor in comparison.
- ncr100 2y ago
  Which car? Most integrations I've seen are plug and go. Unplug and it's like stock. It influences CANBUS messaging while integrated. Twists the wheel, pushes brakes or gas for you. You nudge the steering wheel for torquey curves, and takeover to take exits, or to correct incorrect assumptions. Good for highway. Like a good ADAS.
- tombakt 2y ago
  It removes almost all driving fatigue for me (RAV4) and I do not intend to purchase a car unless it is supported by comma. I needed a new car and specifically bought this RAV4 because of comma compatibility. Driving is essentially 3 inputs (gas, brake, steer). I use the comma for steering to keep the car centered in the lane, which is does extremely well. My car has built-in radar cruise control which keeps the speed (gas) and distance from the car ahead (brake), so highway/city driving even in traffic is a breeze. I have not tried the experimental mode that supposedly has some level of end-to-end capability where the comma controls the gas and brake, and have found the current balance absolutely perfect for my needs.
  - nomilk 2y ago
    Something that worries me a little is how comma would handle anomalies. Telsa has such scale that they're likely to encounter more anomalies and their software will learn from them. I'm particularly concerned about the sudden kind of anomalies (e.g. animal jumping in front of vehicle, or a getaway car coming from an illegal ergo uncommon direction); one that comma may be unable to handle, but a human would have very little time to take over from.
bradleyy 2y ago
A friend of mine briefly owned* the autonomous cross-country driving record, using Comma AI. I forget the exact autonomous percentage, but it was above 99%. I want to say 99.4x% but I might just be thinking of Ivory soap, haha. The record, for reference, uses a traditional Cannonball route from Red Ball Garage in NY, to Portofino Hotel and Marina in Redondo Beach, CA. 2850 miles of American interstate plus a bunch of surface streets at the start and end. All with under 20 miles human assisted. * the record was taken back by Alex Roy, who has had a series of autonomous cross-country records
OutOfHere 2y ago
Is this hardware legal to use? What is its failure incidence?
- ncr100 2y ago
  1 Yes. Pay attention as the driver, still, since it's not fully autonomous, and you're good. 2 IDK.
  - kiney 2y ago
    answer to 1 depends on where you are
  - OutOfHere 2y ago
    People effectively trust it with their life, but how trustworthy is it? Is there a regulator? Is the failure rate known? It looks like complete regulatory failure when it comes to autonomous driving. The risk is not just to the driver, but also to everyone else on the road. I am not opposed to it.
johnny_canuck 2y ago
I've never heard of this so I've got a silly question - I own a Subaru Outback base model with adaptive cruise and lane keep. What is the difference that this offers?
- simondotau 2y ago
  It will give you truly hands-free lane centering with eye tracking rather than ping-ponging between lane lines and continual steering wheel nags. If you’re doing a lot of highway miles, it would be a big quality of life improvement. Personally, I find that “autopilot” style features makes me a better driver because I can spend more time focusing on the road ahead rather than splitting my attention to oft-arbitrary tasks like speed limit compliance. However, I know this doesn’t apply to everyone. If you are the sort of person for whom less active involvement impairs your ability to stay engaged in the executive task of driving, this will exaggerate the sense of disconnection even further.
- genewitch 2y ago
  Your subaru lanekeeping doesn't try to murder you? On a freeway or other uninterrupted left line, be in the leftmost lane. Start passing a semi trailer. The car wants to hug the middle, as usual, but I steer slightly to the left to be safe. After passing the truck, release grip slightly on the wheel. Car Immedialy swerves into the right lane. At whatever speed you're going. Our Subaru doesn't have lane change, so this is a fucking horrific bug that will kill someone by putting them under a semi. I can repro this at most speeds on any road that meets the above condition.
  - johnny_canuck 2y ago
    Yes, I know the issue you're talking about. The fix I've found is to always maintain the same grip on the wheel. If you want to change it up then yank the wheel a bit to let it know you're there and then do so. I'm surprised it got implemented in such a manner.
    - genewitch 2y ago
pants2 2y ago
Comma is going to be popular with the Tesla refugees who miss the autonomous capabilities. Note for anyone from Comma reading this: I bought a car recently and limited my search to only Comma-well-supported models. None of the sales people at any dealership I went to had heard of Comma, and this was in San Diego (Comma's HQ). Every sales rep that I mentioned the Comma to said "awesome, I'm going to tell everyone about that!" If you want to sell more Commas, start giving demos at dealerships, and you'll soon have every Hyundai and Toyota car salesman in the US selling Commas for you.
- paxys 2y ago
  Is the dealership going to take on the liability of the unit malfunctioning and crashing the car/injuring a rider? The obvious answer is no, and so you aren't going to see stuff like this on dealers' shelves anytime soon.
  - porridgeraisin 2y ago
    To be fair, without the baggage of tesla's ...overzealous... marketing, I think it will be possible for the dealers to pitch for it and yet deliver the message that it's "alpha" and risky.
    - paxys 2y ago
      And why exactly would they do that? "Hey you should buy this aftermarket autopilot system along with the car. No it isn't sold by Toyota. It's some small company you haven't heard of. No there's no warranty. Nope no safety data. You have to accept all liability for use. Yeah it might kill you and your kids. But hey, you get to be an alpha tester!" 99% of customers are going to walk out of the dealership after hearing that pitch.
      - porridgeraisin 2y ago
        Well, if they are going to present it that uncharitably then yes, people would walk out. Cars with basic ADAS have been selling just fine, and their ".* assist" features have been sold by dealerships just fine. This just slots into the same category. "Manages your steering on long straight stretches of highways" is not a hard thing to convey. What you said would be the case if they had the baggage of "full self driving" marketing over 10 years.
muppetman 2y ago
Can you use these outside the US? Like NZ?
- dantiberian 2y ago
  Looks like it, based on this video driving on the left side of the road in what looks to be Australia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkh3s6WHJz8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkh3s6WHJz8
- laurentlb 2y ago
  The entire website feels very US-centric. I've found a line in the FAQ that says: > Does openpilot work outside of the United States of America? > Yes, openpilot is not region locked and can be used in any country. You are responsible for complying with local laws and regulations. It doesn't inspire confidence.
  - scotty79 2y ago
    Why? "You are responsible for complying with local laws and regulations." sounds like "please do not eat wrapper", completely obvious.
    - laurentlb 2y ago
      The website doesn't mention any other country. It doesn't say if it was tested in other countries; it doesn't say if it's even legal in other countries. Does the pilot know the signs and driving laws outside the US? If the website is not clear about it, I'll assume it won't be well supported in my country.
      - yrxuthst 2y ago
        OpenPilot doesn't attempt to handle signs and driving laws, it's basically just better lane keeping assist and cruise control. You are still responsible for setting cruise speed, etc.
    - kayge 2y ago
jwong_ 2y ago
Has heard about it but didn’t know the reliability. Too bad it doesn’t support my 2011 Honda. Next car!
anonym29 2y ago
Would love to try Comma, very disappointed they don't seem to support the entire category of cars I have any interest in owning (Mercedes-Benz S class, Lexus LS, BMW 7-series). Acura and Audi don't really compete at this level, despite being in the same brand segment as others I've listed.
- xp84 2y ago
  It's disappointing to see yet another setback befall these Mercedes and BMW buyers. Do they expect fine individuals like that to drive around in Audis, like an animal?
dagenix 2y ago
So, a hackier version of Tesla's autopilot? Sounds, uh, terrifying.
- dailykoder 2y ago
  Not as terrifying as humans
- dagenix 2y ago
  I especially like how there is next to no mention about safety on the main page. But at least its only $999 and it has AI and 50k GitHub stars, so, thats nice.
  - AlotOfReading 2y ago
    They have a basic safety page in the docs [0], which unfortunately has a dead link to their vehicle safety definitions due to a recent PR [1], along with some other safety-related deadlinks in the panda README. Avoiding having to deal with safety is a pretty integral part of their whole process though. They run some basic static analysis/sanitizers/unit tests, and everything past that is out of scope. If you're not okay with that level of verification for your steering control, it's probably not the product for you. [0] https://docs.comma.ai/concepts/safety/ https://docs.comma.ai/concepts/safety/ [1] https://github.com/commaai/panda/pull/2143 https://github.com/commaai/panda/pull/2143
  - garbagewoman 2y ago
    What’s with the snark?
- moscoe 2y ago
  If by terrifying you mean totally awesome, I agree!
- norswap 2y ago
  I think it did much better on safety in some tests (no I don't have sources, going from memory :/), but is less capable by design on some more trickier scenarios. Basically pretty much what you would something like this to be.
nomilk 2y ago
Are there any reliable sites for ranking and benchmarking self-driving capabilities? (i.e. similar to what WebDev Arena and SWE-bench do for LLMs). Curious where telsa and comma rank, and where others (e.g. mercedes) rank comparatively.
- granolatron 2y ago
  https://data.consumerreports.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/consumer-reports-active-driving-assistance-systems-november-16-2020.pdf https://data.consumerreports.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/... They’ve done updates each year since but haven’t included comma for some reason.
  - darknavi 2y ago
    Doesn't that file list them at the top? > Comma Two > Open Pilot
    - nomilk 2y ago
      Report looks great, but it's ~5 years old.
guyfromfargo 2y ago
Congrats to Comma! I’ve had a Comma 2 and then upgraded to Comma 3. It really is a game changer on long trips. It’s also fun trying out all of the different forks, and experimental features.
stego-tech 2y ago
Love the product concept, and I’m all for more open/auditable models of autonomous driving, rather than closed-source dealer models that could be highly variable between models and years. If we’re going to do autonomous driving assistants, comma seems to be my preferred method - on paper, anyway. For the owners in thread, maybe someone can explain to me the LTE modem requirement of the hardware. WiFi I get (easier to transfer records/video/data), but as someone still tooling around in a 2010 Honda and reluctant to buy into modern spyware-equipped vehicles, I’m wary of adding anything with cellular connectivity that could “phone home” without my consent. If the comma is fully self-contained and wholly offline, then that’s a huge selling point for folks like me who want privacy in our vehicles and a non-networked device that’s harder that’s harder to compromise remotely, and it’d definitely influence my future purchasing decisions so my vehicle choice supports these sorts of aftermarket modules. One other suggestion (and honestly something I ought to write an essay on at some point): stop using Discord for support/community stuff. I’m seeing a lot of companies offload their forums/socials/support into Discord, and while I see the appeal on paper it’s not ideal for those of us who want to compartmentalize interactions based on goal (e.g., socialization vs vendor support). Just a personal nitpick of mine coming from some degree of community support background and well aware of Discord’s flaws and privacy shortcomings.
- codersfocus 2y ago
  Based on the blog post saying they're able to use their fleet (i.e. owners of comma) to train their models, it's probably to send footage back home. Tesla does this too btw.
  - stego-tech 2y ago
    Yep, and it’s why I never bought a Tesla. Also why I haven’t bought any new cars (they all send data home for various purposes, including to sell to insurance companies or advertisers). I’m not adverse to sharing that data necessarily, but I want control over what and when I share at the very least, and without an always-on net connection.
brainless 2y ago
Congratulations on the milestone. I checked their team page, repositories and bounties. It is lovely to see things so well structured around an open source product that encourages everyone to contribute, share, even get paid. I will keep this in mind for our team calls as a brilliant reference.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
wrasee 2y ago
I'm confused, partly out of my own ignorance but after looking at their site I'm still none the wiser. Do modern cars essentially have some interface that means you can control them electronically? Is this a public interface, like an official standard shared between brands or are they adapting per-brand? Or perhaps even revere-engineering the car's internals in some hacky way? What about from the car manufactures, do they support such things? Would installing this affect your Car's warranty? Are you "supposed to do this"? And what's their safety record? I guess if they're not saying, it's not something they want to talk about. Or worse, they don't even know because I doubt users are self-reporting. So many questions. I spent some time on their site but got frustrated and bounced before i could get any real information. It's just talks 'car compatibility' and 'buy now'. Seems to present as a magic box you should just trust. And while I'm sure I could find answers the fact that these things aren't front-and-center, at least to me, doesn't send the right message. I don't want to just "plug in and go" with something so safety critical. Seems to market as more toy/gadget than "safety first". Same with Tesla, mind.
- LorenDB 2y ago
  Yes, it's called the CAN bus and the protocol is an ISO standard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus
  - wrasee 2y ago
    Thanks. I guess given the target market you’re just supposed to know that, I’ll accept that. Cool that that exists. I’m actually surprised that car manufactures support opening up control like that. Or is this essentially a private interface for implementers; how much are end-users supposed to be messing around with internals like this? I’ll maintain that as someone that is largely ignorant in this space their website did little to give me confidence that they care about these kinds of questions. That maker’s attitude works for a gadget that drives around your lawn, but jars with reality at 60 mph.

146 points by LorenDB 2y ago

To clarify per the article: they sold 10K of their current model, the comma 3X, which launched about July 2023. Total sales of all devices is likely higher.

LorenDB 2y ago
Thanks, updated the title to reflect that.
tech234a 2y ago
Looks like they sold 5.5K of the previous model, the comma 3, according to https://x.com/comma_ai/status/1899579124345405854 https://x.com/comma_ai/status/1899579124345405854
adeebshihadeh 2y ago
correct, we’re a little over 20k total

KerryJones 2y ago

Didn't know about this -- that's cool. I'm excited to see where it goes in the future

echelon 2y ago

I've never heard anything about comma.ai's safety. I wonder if it's just not high profile enough to have been involved in public incidents? Also bummer on no FJ Cruiser support. :(

adenta 2y ago
I swear by my comma 3. Orlando to Austin, 45 minutes hands on the wheel.
- adenta 2y ago
  It almost took an exit I didn’t want to take in Louisiana, other than that no major issues. Works well in rain. You are still driving the car, it’s just less intense.
  - nikkwong 2y ago
    What is the experience driving the car? "You are still driving the car"—is it akin to tesla's autopilot, or is the experience difference? In some 3 y'o videos I see individuals driving without hands on the steering wheel—not sure if that is what the experience is like day to day with the device (?).
    - adenta 2y ago
      Yeah I don’t use my hands on the steering wheel when the comma is engaged. Haven’t spent much time in Tesla’s to know how it compares, someone else might know better.
      - Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
        In a Tesla, driver monitoring is two-fold. First, it senses the weight of your hand on the wheel. Whenever it steers, it senses the torque on the wheel from your hand. Even if your hand is moving with the wheel, you will end up applying a tiny amount of torque that it senses. However, when driving straight, I often find it warning me to apply a small amount of torque on the steering wheel so it knows my hand is there. Second, there's a camera behind the rear-view mirror that detects your gaze. If it thinks you're looking at your phone or the touch screen for more than a few seconds, it tells you to watch the road.
    - AlotOfReading 2y ago
      The legal situation is the same as FSD. You remain the driver in control at all times, regardless of steering assistance being provided. If you want to drive a car without your hands on the wheel, well that's a personal choice. It's not fundamentally different than taking your hands off the wheel with cruise control engaged.
dag11 2y ago
In early 2020 I used a Comma 2 on my Honda Civic for a few weeks. It had one failure, but the way it failed was so alarming I'm hesitant to ever try them again. It not only failed while engaged, but it froze which meant it still showed the bright green outline indicating "I'm still engaged!" with no alert sounds, visual indication of disengagement, or automatic restart. I only noticed something was off when my car started to drift outside the lanes during a curve, which took me longer to notice than necessary because it still looked engaged and it looked like a somewhat typical case of understeering until I started exiting the lane. It also never booted back on again, so something went seriously wrong during an otherwise routine drive. Stock driver assistance systems (e.g. Rivian Driver+, Tesla Autopilot) have redundant computers it can fall back on if the primary fails. If Comma offered a self-contained device that was demonstrably redundant at a hardware level I'd be willing to give it another shot!

sampton 2y ago

If anyone from comma is here, what is the state of transformer based world simulator. I recall watching a talk about it year ago but haven’t heard anything since.

adeebshihadeh 2y ago
roughly speaking, the latest policy models trained in it are indistinguishable from openpilot release on 15-30 mins of driving, but you start to notice the subtle issues (e.g. turn cutting) on a few hours of driving. we'll definitely do some good writeups and/or talks once it's shipped.

xp84 2y ago

I'm very interested to hear the experiences of people who are using this. I'm pretty sure my car would support this, but don't want to ruin my car, or of course, die.

baldeagle 2y ago
Great product, put it in my RAV4 Prime and it just works. Makes my Bolt EUV super cruise look poor in comparison.
ncr100 2y ago
Which car? Most integrations I've seen are plug and go. Unplug and it's like stock. It influences CANBUS messaging while integrated. Twists the wheel, pushes brakes or gas for you. You nudge the steering wheel for torquey curves, and takeover to take exits, or to correct incorrect assumptions. Good for highway. Like a good ADAS.
tombakt 2y ago
It removes almost all driving fatigue for me (RAV4) and I do not intend to purchase a car unless it is supported by comma. I needed a new car and specifically bought this RAV4 because of comma compatibility. Driving is essentially 3 inputs (gas, brake, steer). I use the comma for steering to keep the car centered in the lane, which is does extremely well. My car has built-in radar cruise control which keeps the speed (gas) and distance from the car ahead (brake), so highway/city driving even in traffic is a breeze. I have not tried the experimental mode that supposedly has some level of end-to-end capability where the comma controls the gas and brake, and have found the current balance absolutely perfect for my needs.
- nomilk 2y ago
  Something that worries me a little is how comma would handle anomalies. Telsa has such scale that they're likely to encounter more anomalies and their software will learn from them. I'm particularly concerned about the sudden kind of anomalies (e.g. animal jumping in front of vehicle, or a getaway car coming from an illegal ergo uncommon direction); one that comma may be unable to handle, but a human would have very little time to take over from.

bradleyy 2y ago

A friend of mine briefly owned* the autonomous cross-country driving record, using Comma AI. I forget the exact autonomous percentage, but it was above 99%. I want to say 99.4x% but I might just be thinking of Ivory soap, haha. The record, for reference, uses a traditional Cannonball route from Red Ball Garage in NY, to Portofino Hotel and Marina in Redondo Beach, CA. 2850 miles of American interstate plus a bunch of surface streets at the start and end. All with under 20 miles human assisted. * the record was taken back by Alex Roy, who has had a series of autonomous cross-country records

OutOfHere 2y ago

Is this hardware legal to use? What is its failure incidence?

ncr100 2y ago
1 Yes. Pay attention as the driver, still, since it's not fully autonomous, and you're good. 2 IDK.
- kiney 2y ago
  answer to 1 depends on where you are
- OutOfHere 2y ago
  People effectively trust it with their life, but how trustworthy is it? Is there a regulator? Is the failure rate known? It looks like complete regulatory failure when it comes to autonomous driving. The risk is not just to the driver, but also to everyone else on the road. I am not opposed to it.

johnny_canuck 2y ago

I've never heard of this so I've got a silly question - I own a Subaru Outback base model with adaptive cruise and lane keep. What is the difference that this offers?

simondotau 2y ago
It will give you truly hands-free lane centering with eye tracking rather than ping-ponging between lane lines and continual steering wheel nags. If you’re doing a lot of highway miles, it would be a big quality of life improvement. Personally, I find that “autopilot” style features makes me a better driver because I can spend more time focusing on the road ahead rather than splitting my attention to oft-arbitrary tasks like speed limit compliance. However, I know this doesn’t apply to everyone. If you are the sort of person for whom less active involvement impairs your ability to stay engaged in the executive task of driving, this will exaggerate the sense of disconnection even further.
genewitch 2y ago
Your subaru lanekeeping doesn't try to murder you? On a freeway or other uninterrupted left line, be in the leftmost lane. Start passing a semi trailer. The car wants to hug the middle, as usual, but I steer slightly to the left to be safe. After passing the truck, release grip slightly on the wheel. Car Immedialy swerves into the right lane. At whatever speed you're going. Our Subaru doesn't have lane change, so this is a fucking horrific bug that will kill someone by putting them under a semi. I can repro this at most speeds on any road that meets the above condition.
- johnny_canuck 2y ago
  Yes, I know the issue you're talking about. The fix I've found is to always maintain the same grip on the wheel. If you want to change it up then yank the wheel a bit to let it know you're there and then do so. I'm surprised it got implemented in such a manner.
  - genewitch 2y ago

pants2 2y ago

Comma is going to be popular with the Tesla refugees who miss the autonomous capabilities. Note for anyone from Comma reading this: I bought a car recently and limited my search to only Comma-well-supported models. None of the sales people at any dealership I went to had heard of Comma, and this was in San Diego (Comma's HQ). Every sales rep that I mentioned the Comma to said "awesome, I'm going to tell everyone about that!" If you want to sell more Commas, start giving demos at dealerships, and you'll soon have every Hyundai and Toyota car salesman in the US selling Commas for you.

paxys 2y ago
Is the dealership going to take on the liability of the unit malfunctioning and crashing the car/injuring a rider? The obvious answer is no, and so you aren't going to see stuff like this on dealers' shelves anytime soon.
- porridgeraisin 2y ago
  To be fair, without the baggage of tesla's ...overzealous... marketing, I think it will be possible for the dealers to pitch for it and yet deliver the message that it's "alpha" and risky.
  - paxys 2y ago
    And why exactly would they do that? "Hey you should buy this aftermarket autopilot system along with the car. No it isn't sold by Toyota. It's some small company you haven't heard of. No there's no warranty. Nope no safety data. You have to accept all liability for use. Yeah it might kill you and your kids. But hey, you get to be an alpha tester!" 99% of customers are going to walk out of the dealership after hearing that pitch.
    - porridgeraisin 2y ago
      Well, if they are going to present it that uncharitably then yes, people would walk out. Cars with basic ADAS have been selling just fine, and their ".* assist" features have been sold by dealerships just fine. This just slots into the same category. "Manages your steering on long straight stretches of highways" is not a hard thing to convey. What you said would be the case if they had the baggage of "full self driving" marketing over 10 years.

muppetman 2y ago

Can you use these outside the US? Like NZ?

dantiberian 2y ago
Looks like it, based on this video driving on the left side of the road in what looks to be Australia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkh3s6WHJz8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkh3s6WHJz8
laurentlb 2y ago
The entire website feels very US-centric. I've found a line in the FAQ that says: > Does openpilot work outside of the United States of America? > Yes, openpilot is not region locked and can be used in any country. You are responsible for complying with local laws and regulations. It doesn't inspire confidence.
- scotty79 2y ago
  Why? "You are responsible for complying with local laws and regulations." sounds like "please do not eat wrapper", completely obvious.
  - laurentlb 2y ago
    The website doesn't mention any other country. It doesn't say if it was tested in other countries; it doesn't say if it's even legal in other countries. Does the pilot know the signs and driving laws outside the US? If the website is not clear about it, I'll assume it won't be well supported in my country.
    - yrxuthst 2y ago
      OpenPilot doesn't attempt to handle signs and driving laws, it's basically just better lane keeping assist and cruise control. You are still responsible for setting cruise speed, etc.
  - kayge 2y ago

jwong_ 2y ago

Has heard about it but didn’t know the reliability. Too bad it doesn’t support my 2011 Honda. Next car!

anonym29 2y ago

Would love to try Comma, very disappointed they don't seem to support the entire category of cars I have any interest in owning (Mercedes-Benz S class, Lexus LS, BMW 7-series). Acura and Audi don't really compete at this level, despite being in the same brand segment as others I've listed.

xp84 2y ago
It's disappointing to see yet another setback befall these Mercedes and BMW buyers. Do they expect fine individuals like that to drive around in Audis, like an animal?

dagenix 2y ago

So, a hackier version of Tesla's autopilot? Sounds, uh, terrifying.

dailykoder 2y ago
Not as terrifying as humans
dagenix 2y ago
I especially like how there is next to no mention about safety on the main page. But at least its only $999 and it has AI and 50k GitHub stars, so, thats nice.
- AlotOfReading 2y ago
  They have a basic safety page in the docs [0], which unfortunately has a dead link to their vehicle safety definitions due to a recent PR [1], along with some other safety-related deadlinks in the panda README. Avoiding having to deal with safety is a pretty integral part of their whole process though. They run some basic static analysis/sanitizers/unit tests, and everything past that is out of scope. If you're not okay with that level of verification for your steering control, it's probably not the product for you. [0] https://docs.comma.ai/concepts/safety/ https://docs.comma.ai/concepts/safety/ [1] https://github.com/commaai/panda/pull/2143 https://github.com/commaai/panda/pull/2143
- garbagewoman 2y ago
  What’s with the snark?
moscoe 2y ago
If by terrifying you mean totally awesome, I agree!
norswap 2y ago
I think it did much better on safety in some tests (no I don't have sources, going from memory :/), but is less capable by design on some more trickier scenarios. Basically pretty much what you would something like this to be.

nomilk 2y ago

Are there any reliable sites for ranking and benchmarking self-driving capabilities? (i.e. similar to what WebDev Arena and SWE-bench do for LLMs). Curious where telsa and comma rank, and where others (e.g. mercedes) rank comparatively.

granolatron 2y ago
https://data.consumerreports.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/consumer-reports-active-driving-assistance-systems-november-16-2020.pdf https://data.consumerreports.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/... They’ve done updates each year since but haven’t included comma for some reason.
- darknavi 2y ago
  Doesn't that file list them at the top? > Comma Two > Open Pilot
  - nomilk 2y ago
    Report looks great, but it's ~5 years old.

guyfromfargo 2y ago

Congrats to Comma! I’ve had a Comma 2 and then upgraded to Comma 3. It really is a game changer on long trips. It’s also fun trying out all of the different forks, and experimental features.

stego-tech 2y ago

Love the product concept, and I’m all for more open/auditable models of autonomous driving, rather than closed-source dealer models that could be highly variable between models and years. If we’re going to do autonomous driving assistants, comma seems to be my preferred method - on paper, anyway. For the owners in thread, maybe someone can explain to me the LTE modem requirement of the hardware. WiFi I get (easier to transfer records/video/data), but as someone still tooling around in a 2010 Honda and reluctant to buy into modern spyware-equipped vehicles, I’m wary of adding anything with cellular connectivity that could “phone home” without my consent. If the comma is fully self-contained and wholly offline, then that’s a huge selling point for folks like me who want privacy in our vehicles and a non-networked device that’s harder that’s harder to compromise remotely, and it’d definitely influence my future purchasing decisions so my vehicle choice supports these sorts of aftermarket modules. One other suggestion (and honestly something I ought to write an essay on at some point): stop using Discord for support/community stuff. I’m seeing a lot of companies offload their forums/socials/support into Discord, and while I see the appeal on paper it’s not ideal for those of us who want to compartmentalize interactions based on goal (e.g., socialization vs vendor support). Just a personal nitpick of mine coming from some degree of community support background and well aware of Discord’s flaws and privacy shortcomings.

codersfocus 2y ago
Based on the blog post saying they're able to use their fleet (i.e. owners of comma) to train their models, it's probably to send footage back home. Tesla does this too btw.
- stego-tech 2y ago
  Yep, and it’s why I never bought a Tesla. Also why I haven’t bought any new cars (they all send data home for various purposes, including to sell to insurance companies or advertisers). I’m not adverse to sharing that data necessarily, but I want control over what and when I share at the very least, and without an always-on net connection.

brainless 2y ago

Congratulations on the milestone. I checked their team page, repositories and bounties. It is lovely to see things so well structured around an open source product that encourages everyone to contribute, share, even get paid. I will keep this in mind for our team calls as a brilliant reference.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

wrasee 2y ago

I'm confused, partly out of my own ignorance but after looking at their site I'm still none the wiser. Do modern cars essentially have some interface that means you can control them electronically? Is this a public interface, like an official standard shared between brands or are they adapting per-brand? Or perhaps even revere-engineering the car's internals in some hacky way? What about from the car manufactures, do they support such things? Would installing this affect your Car's warranty? Are you "supposed to do this"? And what's their safety record? I guess if they're not saying, it's not something they want to talk about. Or worse, they don't even know because I doubt users are self-reporting. So many questions. I spent some time on their site but got frustrated and bounced before i could get any real information. It's just talks 'car compatibility' and 'buy now'. Seems to present as a magic box you should just trust. And while I'm sure I could find answers the fact that these things aren't front-and-center, at least to me, doesn't send the right message. I don't want to just "plug in and go" with something so safety critical. Seems to market as more toy/gadget than "safety first". Same with Tesla, mind.

LorenDB 2y ago
Yes, it's called the CAN bus and the protocol is an ISO standard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus
- wrasee 2y ago
  Thanks. I guess given the target market you’re just supposed to know that, I’ll accept that. Cool that that exists. I’m actually surprised that car manufactures support opening up control like that. Or is this essentially a private interface for implementers; how much are end-users supposed to be messing around with internals like this? I’ll maintain that as someone that is largely ignorant in this space their website did little to give me confidence that they care about these kinds of questions. That maker’s attitude works for a gadget that drives around your lawn, but jars with reality at 60 mph.