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I am pretty shocked at that Romanian court ruling though. It seems like the entire questioning of the election outcomes was motivated by EU leadership not likin

I am pretty shocked at that Romanian court ruling though. It seems like the entire questioning of the election outcomes was motivated by EU leadership not liking the result of democracy. The decision to not stop at redoing the election but to then ban the candidate seems motivated by the fact that opinion polls show him to still be winning even today despite the alleged “election interference”, months after he won the first election. It’s weird seeing the EU conduct elections sort of like Russia does, ironically. In the past I viewed the EU as supporting things like free speech and democracy in the same way America does.

mmooss 2y ago
Isn't it Romania, and not the EU? Also, what do you do about election manipulation? 'Nothing' isn't an acceptable answer.
- 0xDEAFBEAD 2y ago
  >what do you do about election manipulation? 'Nothing' isn't an acceptable answer. I agree, and this reinforces my point about the ambiguity of the social contract. When the US constitution was written in 1787, the telegraph wasn't even invented. Now we all live in a single "global village". People from all over the world are commenting on politics in other nations in real time. Where do you draw the line for "election manipulation"? No one seems to know, exactly.
  - mmooss 2y ago
    > No one seems to know, exactly. The problem is that we've made this intellectual laziness acceptable. Nobody knows exactly? We have pretty good ideas; we know the difference between legitimate media and propaganda; we just need to encode that in English in specific rules. And before that, we need to get the people who benefit from propaganda, and therefore defend it, out of power. Look at the widespread, and effective campaign to shut down anyone studying disinformation. The problems with letting things like that fester and not doing anything - which is what we've done, mostly - is that people in power become invested in it.
    - 0xDEAFBEAD 2y ago
      >we just need to encode that in English in specific rules. Well, I encourage you to lead the way, fight this intellectual laziness, and propose specific rules. I suspect that you will find the task more difficult than you thought. Whatever rules you propose will be adversarially interpreted by your political opponents, and by actual propagandists. Ideally, the rules should also be simple enough for any voter to understand. Eager to read your reply!
      - mmooss 2y ago
        So you're going to do nothing and mock everyone else - unfortunately, that's become the norm, and that was my point.
        0xDEAFBEAD 2y ago
        I didn't mean to mock you. I thought you were serious.
        mmooss 2y ago
        My point is that you aren't; you aren't contributing (in this interaction), just criticizing others who are.
        0xDEAFBEAD 2y ago
        Trying to articulate problems clearly seems like a perfectly valid way to contribute.
tim333 2y ago
I'm not shocked although it's messy. From the technical point of view elections have rules and if candidates break the rules it seems ok to block them. At another level, Russia is kind of waging war on Europe to try to engineer a fascist takeover. Some of us don't like that - remember Hitler was democratically elected and Putin is merrily killing thousands of innocents in his imperial quest. There is other iffy stuff: > ... evidence about a plot organised by former presidential candidate Călin Georgescu and a group of former French Foreign Legion fighters ... were planning to "infiltrate peaceful protests and trigger chaos through violent actions" >Police found large amounts of lethal weapons, ammunition, and cash https://www.romania-insider.com/romania-prosecutors-georgescu-plot-march-2025 https://www.romania-insider.com/romania-prosecutors-georgesc... >Russian Military Intelligence Behind Attempted Coup in Romania: The Shadowy Network Supporting Pro-Russian Candidate Călin Georgescu https://lansinginstitute.org/2025/03/10/russian-military-intelligence-behind-attempted-coup-in-romania-the-shadowy-network-supporting-pro-russian-candidate-calin-georgescu/ https://lansinginstitute.org/2025/03/10/russian-military-int... etc. 6 charged with treason. I'm not sure how proven it is but Russian military coups are bad and all that.

mmooss 2y ago

Isn't it Romania, and not the EU? Also, what do you do about election manipulation? 'Nothing' isn't an acceptable answer.

0xDEAFBEAD 2y ago
>what do you do about election manipulation? 'Nothing' isn't an acceptable answer. I agree, and this reinforces my point about the ambiguity of the social contract. When the US constitution was written in 1787, the telegraph wasn't even invented. Now we all live in a single "global village". People from all over the world are commenting on politics in other nations in real time. Where do you draw the line for "election manipulation"? No one seems to know, exactly.
- mmooss 2y ago
  > No one seems to know, exactly. The problem is that we've made this intellectual laziness acceptable. Nobody knows exactly? We have pretty good ideas; we know the difference between legitimate media and propaganda; we just need to encode that in English in specific rules. And before that, we need to get the people who benefit from propaganda, and therefore defend it, out of power. Look at the widespread, and effective campaign to shut down anyone studying disinformation. The problems with letting things like that fester and not doing anything - which is what we've done, mostly - is that people in power become invested in it.
  - 0xDEAFBEAD 2y ago
    >we just need to encode that in English in specific rules. Well, I encourage you to lead the way, fight this intellectual laziness, and propose specific rules. I suspect that you will find the task more difficult than you thought. Whatever rules you propose will be adversarially interpreted by your political opponents, and by actual propagandists. Ideally, the rules should also be simple enough for any voter to understand. Eager to read your reply!
    - mmooss 2y ago
      So you're going to do nothing and mock everyone else - unfortunately, that's become the norm, and that was my point.
      - 0xDEAFBEAD 2y ago
        I didn't mean to mock you. I thought you were serious.
        mmooss 2y ago
        My point is that you aren't; you aren't contributing (in this interaction), just criticizing others who are.
        0xDEAFBEAD 2y ago
        Trying to articulate problems clearly seems like a perfectly valid way to contribute.

tim333 2y ago

I'm not shocked although it's messy. From the technical point of view elections have rules and if candidates break the rules it seems ok to block them. At another level, Russia is kind of waging war on Europe to try to engineer a fascist takeover. Some of us don't like that - remember Hitler was democratically elected and Putin is merrily killing thousands of innocents in his imperial quest. There is other iffy stuff: > ... evidence about a plot organised by former presidential candidate Călin Georgescu and a group of former French Foreign Legion fighters ... were planning to "infiltrate peaceful protests and trigger chaos through violent actions" >Police found large amounts of lethal weapons, ammunition, and cash https://www.romania-insider.com/romania-prosecutors-georgescu-plot-march-2025 https://www.romania-insider.com/romania-prosecutors-georgesc... >Russian Military Intelligence Behind Attempted Coup in Romania: The Shadowy Network Supporting Pro-Russian Candidate Călin Georgescu https://lansinginstitute.org/2025/03/10/russian-military-intelligence-behind-attempted-coup-in-romania-the-shadowy-network-supporting-pro-russian-candidate-calin-georgescu/ https://lansinginstitute.org/2025/03/10/russian-military-int... etc. 6 charged with treason. I'm not sure how proven it is but Russian military coups are bad and all that.