12 ms·

British tourist detained by US authorities for 10 days over visa issue

205 points by n1b0m 2y ago

TimorousBestie 2y ago
[flagged]
- userbinator 2y ago
  doing some random house chores "Domestic servant" is a profession.
  - cguess 2y ago
    And often a highly exploitative one, especially for immigrants.
- themaninthedark 2y ago
  Because Tourists aren't issued the requisite tax filing information. Because a large corporation could put a factory on the boarder, bus in "Tourists" to do work. Because we put up barriers to protect labor. Pick one or all and order how you like.
- toast0 2y ago
  Instagram clowning, I dunno, but random house chores sounds hard for immigration to distinguish from a live-in maid/domestic service. Exchanging chores for room and board is an exchange of work for value, so yeah, that's a job; unless there's an exception. The article is a little bit unclear, but it sounds like she wanted to cross into Canada and do the same thing, but Canada instructed her to return to the US and reapply in the proper category, and then the US presumably asked more questions and determined that her stay in the US was likely on the wrong visa too. But I don't understand why the US wouldn't send her home to the UK? How many days of detention does it take to equal a flight home? Also seems weird that Canada wouldn't let her in, or offer to send her home, given Canada and UK have the same King.
- darth_avocado 2y ago
  You don’t want people to come in for 6 months, work below minimum wage and then take all that cash abroad without paying taxes. That would be a bigger drain on the economy than the supposed waste of govt resources.
  - TimorousBestie 2y ago
    Mmm, she’s getting the whole border patrol indefinite incarceration oubliette treatment, it’s not going to take long to rack up more cost than your hypothetical taxes on 6mo @ <=7.25/hr. But sure, if the ‘tourists’ are working for a company en masse, I can see how that could be a problem. The feds will probably do better going after the company, in my estimation. For some reason they don’t seem to do that very often. Self-employment or bartering (as happened here), well, that doesn’t make sense to me to prosecute.
    - darth_avocado 2y ago
      You’re looking at one case and arguing “one person couldn’t hurt much”. But that argument could be made for a million cases individually. But together, that will amount to a lot. And it’s not just taxes, those are wages another citizen could be making. We have work visas, which already face a lot of opposition. Why should we then be okay with tourists working and taking up American jobs?
  - anigbrowl 2y ago
    >6 months >work below minimum wage >all that cash ~$6000?
morkalork 2y ago
Second time today I read about this kind of story: https://www.10news.com/news/team-10/it-is-like-jail-german-man-visiting-american-fiance-detained-by-ice-for-over-2-weeks https://www.10news.com/news/team-10/it-is-like-jail-german-m...
vvpan 2y ago
I am starting to understand why "Abolish the ICE" has been a slogan, sounds like a cesspool of heavy-handed extra-judicial lawlessness. Another key slogan phrase: Do not open for the ICE.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
moralestapia 2y ago
The story is missing an important detail, I'm not assuming malice btw, why was she refused entry into Canada as well? Edit: Lol, there's literally nothing wrong with this observation. HN has truly gone down the gutter. I know not everybody here is part of the hivemind but the few that are completely spoil the experience for everybody else.
- rdtsc 2y ago
  That's what I was confused about. I was thinking my add blocking maybe cut out a paragraph from the text at first. > Canadian authorities told her to go back to the US and fill in new paperwork before returning to cross into Canada. If it's not mistake, and the article is complete, it sounds like the reporter skipped some important details about what Canada did. Hopefully an honest mistake.
  - dmix 2y ago
    Canada has been cracking down on their border for the last year as well since the student worker controversy. It says: > She was planning to stay with a host family where she would carry out domestic chores in exchange for accommodation and was told she should have applied for a working visa, instead of a tourist visa She probably told the Canadian border that was her plan in Canada as well and told her she needs a work visa. Basically like a live in house keeper.
- fortran77 2y ago
  And none of the USA-bashers here seem to care about that. It got me thinking there's more to this story, too.
- dredmorbius 2y ago
  She was not detained by Canada's border service.
  - toast0 2y ago
    Canada's border service sent her back to the US. At that point, the US can't exactly tell her to go back to Canada, and have her walk back and forth until the problem solves itself. Immigration detention pending a return to the country of origin seems reasonable at that point. 10 days of detention to figure out transportation to the country of origin doesn't seem reasonable though.
quackscience 2y ago
Probably shouldn't tell border patrol you're doing unpaid labor in a country you're visiting. When speaking to authorities it's best to say the absolute minimum required for the encounter.
- chasil 2y ago
  I've never had anything to do with foreign exchange students, but are they absolutely prohibited from work of any kind? If there is ambiguity, then we can't have them here.
  - aaomidi 2y ago
    Basically.
  - toast0 2y ago
    In the US, it's very clear. If they don't have work authorization from USCIS, they shouldn't be doing work. There's some guidelines out there on the internet [1], but the students should be extremely careful; any form of compensation or expectation of future compensation for their work could put them in serious trouble. The University of Michigan has a more fleshed out guideline page for their international students [2]. [1] https://marksgray.com/immigration-blog/can-foreign-nationals-volunteer-while-waiting-for-work-authorization/ https://marksgray.com/immigration-blog/can-foreign-nationals... [2] https://internationalcenter.umich.edu/students/employment-volunteer https://internationalcenter.umich.edu/students/employment-vo...
    - actionfromafar 2y ago
      Musk is lucky enforcement wasn't as strict back then.
      - codedokode 2y ago
        Cannot citizenship be revoked for past violations?
Svip 2y ago
Frankly, I wouldn't dare to overstay my tourist visa in the US either 10 or 20 years ago. The articles notes "four month", a standard US tourist visa for an ESTA country (e.g. the UK) would grant 90 days upon arrival; any travel within Canada counts too. Canada, however, grants 180 days, helping explain why Canada may not have seen an issue. Whenever travelling elsewhere for more than 1 month, check _everything_; including your travel insurance, most only last 60 days.
- toast0 2y ago
  > helping explain why Canada may not have seen an issue The article seems to indicate that Canada did have an issue: > Canadian authorities told her to go back to the US and fill in new paperwork before returning to cross into Canada. It seems that she was detained after re-entering the US upon being refused entry into Canada.
  - Svip 2y ago
    Ah. I missed that; maybe Canada only recognises the US visa stay if one entered the US first. I did this research back in 2017, and I may misremember some details.
    - sergers 2y ago
      i think she was "working" but potentially unpaid/compensated in lodging staying a t https://www.workaway.info/ https://www.workaway.info/ (which was reported by the BBC where she was staying)
      - toast0 2y ago
        This site now has a popup for the US > Important information about visiting: United States > If you are NOT a US CITIZEN and are planning to visit to work, volunteer or study, YOU WILL NEED THE CORRECT VISA. To find out more information you need to contact the embassy in your home country BEFORE traveling. But a quick look around near me looks like work for immigration purposes, so someone on a tourist visa to the US should not be participating.
decimalenough 2y ago
If she is on a "four-month backpacking trip around North America" and tried to return to the US, she has exceeded the 90-day limit allowed by the Visa Waiver Program (which counts days both in the US and "adjacent territories") and is now an illegal overstayer. The unpaid labor stuff and getting refused entry to Canada is icing on the cake. For the record, I'm no fan of ICE/CBP, but it looks like they're just enforcing the law here.
- viraptor 2y ago
  Enforcing the law is one thing. If they refused entry or forced her to fly back immediately, nobody would care much. Detaining is all of: cruel, expensive, unnecessary.
  - toast0 2y ago
    Forcing her to fly back immediately (and detaining until the flight if not immediate) seems reasonable, but both countries at a land crossing can't refuse entry. The article states she was refused entry to Canada, and then detained when she returned to the US; I don't know if there are international norms here, but I think in this situation if both countries would refuse entry, one of them has to accept entry and consider immigration detention; and it doesn't seem unfair for that to be the country where the person in question was before the first crossing?
    - viraptor 2y ago
      Sure, they could consider detention. But then there are daily flights back to the UK. Anything beyond an overnight stay (if necessary for the wait) is unfair.
      - averageRoyalty 2y ago
        I'm not convinced it's the Americans responsibility to get her back to a suitable international airport as quickly as possible and put her in the next flight out. 10 days does seem excessive, but I don't see why she should be a priority either. I would imagine up to 5 working days fits within the realm of 'reasonable'.
wrp 2y ago
I have long suspected the reason for aggressive treatment of minor offenders is that they are an easy target and a quick way to meet your prosecution quota. I have many times heard about foreign students who come to the USA under completely proper arrangements but run afoul of immigration because of some innocent remark. My advice to visitors is to never mention to officials any circumstance in which you might come into contact with business or financial operations.
- nxobject 2y ago
  Speaking of quotas: I wouldn’t surprised if part of the reason for her lengthy detention was “we have to meet jail occupancy targets” (or “we have to boost our jail occupancy metrics”.)
- Hamuko 2y ago
  My solution is just to avoid the US like the plague. This is after the countless of stories of people being detained at the border, having their electronics gone through and having to report all of your social media accounts for some fucking reason.
- dmix 2y ago
  I doubt there needs to be some higher agenda. At the border you're at the whims of power tripping border guards and TSA. A whole lot can happen if you get the wrong person who's in a bad mood or simply confused. And once flagged you get pushed into a byzantine process and the next person you speak to won't care how you got into it or if the first guy was unfair, the process is the process.
IncreasePosts 2y ago
It sounds like she was rightfully detained, but it seems crazy to hold her for 10+ days. Why not just let her get back on a flight to the UK and tell her not to come back for 10 years or whatever.
- criddell 2y ago
  Yeah, some details are definitely missing.
- parliament32 2y ago
  My understanding is that they typically do, you book your own ticket for and they put you on a plane, even later the same day if you want. They'll only keep you in detention if you're trying to fight the deportation and have to wait for a hearing, or if you have no way to pay for a ticket -- then they find a low-cost ticket some time out and hold you until then.
somedude895 2y ago
[flagged]
- dredmorbius 2y ago
  Given that HN's audience often travels internationally, many to the US, the state of US border policy and practice is of decided interest.
- schmichael 2y ago
  Lots of HN are not US Citizens who frequently visit the US for work, school, and/or vacation.
mise_en_place 2y ago
[flagged]
sergers 2y ago
i was following this on another site before it showed up here: 1)UK citizens dont need a visa perse coming into canada as a tourist 1b) electronic travel authorization form is not required for UK citizens coming to canada over land border. 2)she was staying at Workaway, which depending on how you interpret/misinterpret is "working" (which it possibly is, a little shady on what they are.) so canada may have thought she was going to work... which a tourist visa doesnt cover so my guess is canadian authorities felt she was coming here to work, which she didnt have the proper paperwork so got denied. USA authorities upon re-entry attempt, probably felt she is scamming the ESTA 90 days being on a "4 month" trip, staying at workaway locations... and playing devils advocate, there is no proof that this is NOT what she was trying to do... going to a short trip in canada before going back thinking it resets ESTA (they have to be gone from usa for a reasonable time) so much unknowns. i think they were right to detain her/deny her entry... but the length of detainment is at issue. very first thing i think of when viewing their site is this is some lodging for volunteer/unpaid labour. https://www.workaway.info/ https://www.workaway.info/
- cco 2y ago
  > very first thing i think of when viewing their site is this is some lodging for volunteer/unpaid labour. https://www.workaway.info/ https://www.workaway.info/ I'm certainly not an immigration lawyer but my understanding is that _no_ work, none, even in exchange for room and board, is allowed on a tourist visa in the US. Workaway looks like it isn't compatible with a tourist visa in the US and their website doesn't really call that out. Seems like something that nine times out of ten if you're just quiet about it it'll never come up and you'd be fine. But unfortunately Canada refused entry and then questions were asked. Rough.
  - Terretta 2y ago
    “Generally you will be expected to help around 5 hours per day in exchange for food and accommodation. Some hosts may give a paid allowance to ensure they are offering at least the minimum wage in their country.”
    - 2y ago
layman51 2y ago
Earlier this month, the Guardian also had an article of a German tourist who crossed over the land border (San Ysidro Port of Entry, I assume) who was detained for a long while too. The details seemed kind of similar to this situation where it involves suspicion of tourists working in the USA without the proper authorizations.
- buyucu 2y ago
  there is a second german tourist now in the same situation, detained while trying to visit his fiancee: https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1j7xjhf/it_is_like_jail_german_man_visiting_american/ https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1j7xjhf/it_is_li...
- manosyja 2y ago
  Couple days ago there was a report of another German tourist being arrested and held without legal counsel.
- ajmurmann 2y ago
  It seems like there was good reason for these concerns that the person was going to work. However, the person was right there at the border. Why did we not just turn them back around. I don't think they had overstayed their time in Mexico? Further they had a return flight weeks ago. AFAIk we have been paying to keep this person detained for over a month now. Why not at least put them on their original flight back. This entire approach with detention and deportations seems a very expensive solution. Edit: In general it seems that if the goal is to reduce illegal immigration, it would be much cheaper to deter most illegal migrants who generally come for economic reasons by fining employers of workers without permits. Instead of cost it brings in money and the illegal workers will deport themselves if all work dries up.
  - layman51 2y ago
    It seems like a common detail for both situations is both travelers were at a land crossing. It sounds like a nightmare scenario but I bet they also could have been bounced back and forth between the guards of either country. At that point, one side will have to take on detention responsibilities because neither side will trust the person to make good on their return plans.
buyucu 2y ago
I will be avoiding all US travel in the near future. No need to get close to this kind of lunacy.
jmyeet 2y ago
Here's an example of how broken the discourse is over immigration and how the media has grossly failed with their responsibility in reporting something remotely factual. The majority of undocumented migrants aren't border crosses. They're visa overstayers [1]. And of course the "migrant crime" hysteria is completely made up. Despite there being at least 10 million undocumented migrants, the number of murders commited by both documented and undocumented migrants in 2024 was 29 [2]. Not 29,000. TWENTY NINE. That's a per-capita crime rate significantly lower than the American population. [1]: https://www.npr.org/2019/01/16/686056668/for-seventh-consecutive-year-visa-overstays-exceeded-illegal-border-crossings https://www.npr.org/2019/01/16/686056668/for-seventh-consecu... [2]: https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics/criminal-noncitizen-statistics https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistic...
- cavisne 2y ago
  [2] Is an incorrect interpretation. There is no nationwide data on murders by illegal immigrants, only some states like Texas collect this. CPB does not deport many murderers because they are serving prison sentences in the US. In 2022 there were 67 Texas murders by illegal immigrants, more than the supposed CPB FY22 number just in one state. https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/2024-06/Policy-Analysis-977-new-release-date.pdf https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/2024-06/Policy-Ana... The per capita trend is still directionally the same as your claim in Texas. The problem with illegal immigrant murders is there is a legal and proportional way to prevent all of them - don't let them in the first place. This isn't so easy for other murderers.
n1b0m 2y ago
A similar story about Ice detaining a German tourist in California indefinitely. Jessica Brösche has spent more than a month in detention center after being denied entry at San Diego from Mexico. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/03/ice-german-tourist-detained-immigration https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/03/ice-german-t...
- DidYaWipe 2y ago
  The hypocrisy of everything under this administration boggles the mind. "You're here illegally! No, we won't let you leave!"
  - ohgr 2y ago
    I think it’s malicious incompetence. They probably rolled this out so fast and fired everyone who could manage it at the same time that it’s running at the stage of “how do we not starve these people” levels of chaos. What a shit show though.
    - throw16180339 2y ago
      ICE probably has quotas for detainment, so they're imprisoning people who would previously have been sent home.
      - potato3732842 2y ago
        Every day is a slow day these days so those guys who were hired to detain people are really scraping the bottom of the barrel. It's like being pulled over for nothing because there's nobody else to pull over at 1am on a Tuesday.
  - bloomingeek 2y ago
    I have English relatives, my son-in-laws family, lovely people. They want to come visit again, but are concerned about the craziness of the current administration. When they visit, they spend plenty of money and have a great time. Does the GOP think tourists from other countries aren't paying attention?!?
paulsutter 2y ago
Little known fact: traveling to Canada, Mexico, or the Caribbean doesnt extend your 90 day visit to the US, in fact you keep the original 90 day stamp so the days spent in those places essentially count against the 90 days. This is a convenience for travelers to North America, you only need to enter the US once. But seems like she wasn't aware of this.
Razengan 2y ago
Hot Take: People should be allowed to travel and live wherever they want, if they can work/pay for it and follow local laws.
- userbinator 2y ago
  The local laws include requiring a valid visa.
  - Razengan 2y ago
    Well I mean the freedom to travel and choose where you live should be a basic human right, and local laws aren't supposed to override basic rights.
    - userbinator 2y ago
      The world isn't a single country, and for good reason.
justforonepost 2y ago
Crazy as it seems I feel it's not safe to say this on my main account any more - I've done more than 100 trips to the US for work in the last decade but I've now concluded I've done my last for a few years at least. There's been a real uptick in these stories and now people legally in the US are being actively targeted and effectively disappeared for speech it doesn't feel like normalcy or due process apply. Similarly I wouldn't have visited China during the cultural revolution.
- timeon 2y ago
  This can potentially accelerate more in US than in China because of for-profit prisons.
motbus3 2y ago
I'm just waiting for this immigration crackdown to be done with and then we'll need to see who will be blamed for bad economy numbers.
- stevenwoo 2y ago
  They are ahead of you already, they are going to fudge/hide the numbers. https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/trump-admin-disbands-two-committees-advising-on-economic-stats-990d0b85 https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/trump-admin-disbands-two... This is like Soviet/CCCP style make the numbers match the plan sort of thing.
  - motbus3 2y ago
    I am quite afraid to comment things on internet nowadays
    - stevenwoo 2y ago
      The proposed prosecution of environmental non profit groups looks like they are edging their way towards that end. https://newrepublic.com/post/192660/trump-fbi-charge-climate-organizations https://newrepublic.com/post/192660/trump-fbi-charge-climate...
codedokode 2y ago
A reasonable response to this for UK govt would be to check American tourists and see if they are properly complying with the law. Law is so complicated, no way you can't find at least one violation. Also, the article states that other people in the prison had been there for much longer time ("months"), but nobody writes articles about them.
- n1b0m 2y ago
  https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/03/ice-german-tourist-detained-immigration https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/03/ice-german-t...
tim333 2y ago
The US has always been a scary place to cross the border. I'm a Brit and have been to 50+ countries and the US is the only one that seems like it's trying to find a reason to arrest you. The others generally don't give problems or possibly just refuse entry and you have to go back. The other thing that puzzles me about the US is they give basically law abiding travellers all sorts of grief while at the same time letting people just wander in from Mexico and live for years. Odd system.
- AlotOfReading 2y ago
  The US doesn't just let people wander in. The US-Mexico border is incredibly militarized, with multiple lines of checkpoints on either side and a massive amount of technology and manpower to support patrolling the desert between ports. It's closer to a conflict border than it is to a typical international border.
  - gruez 2y ago
    >The US doesn't just let people wander in. The US-Mexico border is incredibly militarized, with multiple lines of checkpoints on either side. [...] It's closer to the DMZ than it is to a typical international border. Unless "multiple lines of checkpoints" actually means "multiple booths so visitors can be processed in parallel", this is most certainly false. Here's the San Ysidro boreder crossing in Tijuana: https://www.google.com/maps/@32.5423767,-117.0289817,331m/data=!3m1!1e3 https://www.google.com/maps/@32.5423767,-117.0289817,331m/da... You can see a wide fanout to a bunch of booths, a secondary screening area north of that, and some administrative buildings. That's not "multiple lines of checkpoints". It's just one checkpoint. There might be more drug sniffer dogs than the average border crossing elsewhere, but for the typical traveler it's otherwise not that much different.
    - AlotOfReading 2y ago
      San Ysidro is a port, only a small part of a much larger system run by the US CBP that extends up to 100 miles into the US. Here's the map of checkpoints for San Diego sector where San Ysidro is [0]. You can see an outdated map of the commonly used checkpoints for the whole US [1]. There's also a bunch of invisible infrastructure hidden between these checkpoints, from ALPR to facial recognition systems, not to mention regular patrols by USBP. Each sector's run a bit differently in practice, depending on various constraints and the different kinds of crossing they see. Tucson sector uses more mobile checkpoints because of congressional limitations for example, while Yuma sector focuses more on deep-desert patrolling in cooperation with tribal authorities because that's a well-developed coyote route. A reasonably similar system of checkpoints exists on the Mexican side as well, oriented against people heading north. [0] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/GAO-05-435_Figure_10.gif https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/GAO-05-4... [1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/USBP_Interior_Checkpoints_FY2020.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/USBP_Int...

205 points by n1b0m 2y ago

TimorousBestie 2y ago

[flagged]

userbinator 2y ago
doing some random house chores "Domestic servant" is a profession.
- cguess 2y ago
  And often a highly exploitative one, especially for immigrants.
themaninthedark 2y ago
Because Tourists aren't issued the requisite tax filing information. Because a large corporation could put a factory on the boarder, bus in "Tourists" to do work. Because we put up barriers to protect labor. Pick one or all and order how you like.
toast0 2y ago
Instagram clowning, I dunno, but random house chores sounds hard for immigration to distinguish from a live-in maid/domestic service. Exchanging chores for room and board is an exchange of work for value, so yeah, that's a job; unless there's an exception. The article is a little bit unclear, but it sounds like she wanted to cross into Canada and do the same thing, but Canada instructed her to return to the US and reapply in the proper category, and then the US presumably asked more questions and determined that her stay in the US was likely on the wrong visa too. But I don't understand why the US wouldn't send her home to the UK? How many days of detention does it take to equal a flight home? Also seems weird that Canada wouldn't let her in, or offer to send her home, given Canada and UK have the same King.
darth_avocado 2y ago
You don’t want people to come in for 6 months, work below minimum wage and then take all that cash abroad without paying taxes. That would be a bigger drain on the economy than the supposed waste of govt resources.
- TimorousBestie 2y ago
  Mmm, she’s getting the whole border patrol indefinite incarceration oubliette treatment, it’s not going to take long to rack up more cost than your hypothetical taxes on 6mo @ <=7.25/hr. But sure, if the ‘tourists’ are working for a company en masse, I can see how that could be a problem. The feds will probably do better going after the company, in my estimation. For some reason they don’t seem to do that very often. Self-employment or bartering (as happened here), well, that doesn’t make sense to me to prosecute.
  - darth_avocado 2y ago
    You’re looking at one case and arguing “one person couldn’t hurt much”. But that argument could be made for a million cases individually. But together, that will amount to a lot. And it’s not just taxes, those are wages another citizen could be making. We have work visas, which already face a lot of opposition. Why should we then be okay with tourists working and taking up American jobs?
- anigbrowl 2y ago
  >6 months >work below minimum wage >all that cash ~$6000?

morkalork 2y ago

Second time today I read about this kind of story: https://www.10news.com/news/team-10/it-is-like-jail-german-man-visiting-american-fiance-detained-by-ice-for-over-2-weeks https://www.10news.com/news/team-10/it-is-like-jail-german-m...

vvpan 2y ago

I am starting to understand why "Abolish the ICE" has been a slogan, sounds like a cesspool of heavy-handed extra-judicial lawlessness. Another key slogan phrase: Do not open for the ICE.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

moralestapia 2y ago

The story is missing an important detail, I'm not assuming malice btw, why was she refused entry into Canada as well? Edit: Lol, there's literally nothing wrong with this observation. HN has truly gone down the gutter. I know not everybody here is part of the hivemind but the few that are completely spoil the experience for everybody else.

rdtsc 2y ago
That's what I was confused about. I was thinking my add blocking maybe cut out a paragraph from the text at first. > Canadian authorities told her to go back to the US and fill in new paperwork before returning to cross into Canada. If it's not mistake, and the article is complete, it sounds like the reporter skipped some important details about what Canada did. Hopefully an honest mistake.
- dmix 2y ago
  Canada has been cracking down on their border for the last year as well since the student worker controversy. It says: > She was planning to stay with a host family where she would carry out domestic chores in exchange for accommodation and was told she should have applied for a working visa, instead of a tourist visa She probably told the Canadian border that was her plan in Canada as well and told her she needs a work visa. Basically like a live in house keeper.
fortran77 2y ago
And none of the USA-bashers here seem to care about that. It got me thinking there's more to this story, too.
dredmorbius 2y ago
She was not detained by Canada's border service.
- toast0 2y ago
  Canada's border service sent her back to the US. At that point, the US can't exactly tell her to go back to Canada, and have her walk back and forth until the problem solves itself. Immigration detention pending a return to the country of origin seems reasonable at that point. 10 days of detention to figure out transportation to the country of origin doesn't seem reasonable though.

quackscience 2y ago

Probably shouldn't tell border patrol you're doing unpaid labor in a country you're visiting. When speaking to authorities it's best to say the absolute minimum required for the encounter.

chasil 2y ago
I've never had anything to do with foreign exchange students, but are they absolutely prohibited from work of any kind? If there is ambiguity, then we can't have them here.
- aaomidi 2y ago
  Basically.
- toast0 2y ago
  In the US, it's very clear. If they don't have work authorization from USCIS, they shouldn't be doing work. There's some guidelines out there on the internet [1], but the students should be extremely careful; any form of compensation or expectation of future compensation for their work could put them in serious trouble. The University of Michigan has a more fleshed out guideline page for their international students [2]. [1] https://marksgray.com/immigration-blog/can-foreign-nationals-volunteer-while-waiting-for-work-authorization/ https://marksgray.com/immigration-blog/can-foreign-nationals... [2] https://internationalcenter.umich.edu/students/employment-volunteer https://internationalcenter.umich.edu/students/employment-vo...
  - actionfromafar 2y ago
    Musk is lucky enforcement wasn't as strict back then.
    - codedokode 2y ago
      Cannot citizenship be revoked for past violations?

Svip 2y ago

Frankly, I wouldn't dare to overstay my tourist visa in the US either 10 or 20 years ago. The articles notes "four month", a standard US tourist visa for an ESTA country (e.g. the UK) would grant 90 days upon arrival; any travel within Canada counts too. Canada, however, grants 180 days, helping explain why Canada may not have seen an issue. Whenever travelling elsewhere for more than 1 month, check _everything_; including your travel insurance, most only last 60 days.

toast0 2y ago
> helping explain why Canada may not have seen an issue The article seems to indicate that Canada did have an issue: > Canadian authorities told her to go back to the US and fill in new paperwork before returning to cross into Canada. It seems that she was detained after re-entering the US upon being refused entry into Canada.
- Svip 2y ago
  Ah. I missed that; maybe Canada only recognises the US visa stay if one entered the US first. I did this research back in 2017, and I may misremember some details.
  - sergers 2y ago
    i think she was "working" but potentially unpaid/compensated in lodging staying a t https://www.workaway.info/ https://www.workaway.info/ (which was reported by the BBC where she was staying)
    - toast0 2y ago
      This site now has a popup for the US > Important information about visiting: United States > If you are NOT a US CITIZEN and are planning to visit to work, volunteer or study, YOU WILL NEED THE CORRECT VISA. To find out more information you need to contact the embassy in your home country BEFORE traveling. But a quick look around near me looks like work for immigration purposes, so someone on a tourist visa to the US should not be participating.

decimalenough 2y ago

If she is on a "four-month backpacking trip around North America" and tried to return to the US, she has exceeded the 90-day limit allowed by the Visa Waiver Program (which counts days both in the US and "adjacent territories") and is now an illegal overstayer. The unpaid labor stuff and getting refused entry to Canada is icing on the cake. For the record, I'm no fan of ICE/CBP, but it looks like they're just enforcing the law here.

viraptor 2y ago
Enforcing the law is one thing. If they refused entry or forced her to fly back immediately, nobody would care much. Detaining is all of: cruel, expensive, unnecessary.
- toast0 2y ago
  Forcing her to fly back immediately (and detaining until the flight if not immediate) seems reasonable, but both countries at a land crossing can't refuse entry. The article states she was refused entry to Canada, and then detained when she returned to the US; I don't know if there are international norms here, but I think in this situation if both countries would refuse entry, one of them has to accept entry and consider immigration detention; and it doesn't seem unfair for that to be the country where the person in question was before the first crossing?
  - viraptor 2y ago
    Sure, they could consider detention. But then there are daily flights back to the UK. Anything beyond an overnight stay (if necessary for the wait) is unfair.
    - averageRoyalty 2y ago
      I'm not convinced it's the Americans responsibility to get her back to a suitable international airport as quickly as possible and put her in the next flight out. 10 days does seem excessive, but I don't see why she should be a priority either. I would imagine up to 5 working days fits within the realm of 'reasonable'.

wrp 2y ago

I have long suspected the reason for aggressive treatment of minor offenders is that they are an easy target and a quick way to meet your prosecution quota. I have many times heard about foreign students who come to the USA under completely proper arrangements but run afoul of immigration because of some innocent remark. My advice to visitors is to never mention to officials any circumstance in which you might come into contact with business or financial operations.

nxobject 2y ago
Speaking of quotas: I wouldn’t surprised if part of the reason for her lengthy detention was “we have to meet jail occupancy targets” (or “we have to boost our jail occupancy metrics”.)
Hamuko 2y ago
My solution is just to avoid the US like the plague. This is after the countless of stories of people being detained at the border, having their electronics gone through and having to report all of your social media accounts for some fucking reason.
dmix 2y ago
I doubt there needs to be some higher agenda. At the border you're at the whims of power tripping border guards and TSA. A whole lot can happen if you get the wrong person who's in a bad mood or simply confused. And once flagged you get pushed into a byzantine process and the next person you speak to won't care how you got into it or if the first guy was unfair, the process is the process.

IncreasePosts 2y ago

It sounds like she was rightfully detained, but it seems crazy to hold her for 10+ days. Why not just let her get back on a flight to the UK and tell her not to come back for 10 years or whatever.

criddell 2y ago
Yeah, some details are definitely missing.
parliament32 2y ago
My understanding is that they typically do, you book your own ticket for and they put you on a plane, even later the same day if you want. They'll only keep you in detention if you're trying to fight the deportation and have to wait for a hearing, or if you have no way to pay for a ticket -- then they find a low-cost ticket some time out and hold you until then.

somedude895 2y ago

[flagged]

dredmorbius 2y ago
Given that HN's audience often travels internationally, many to the US, the state of US border policy and practice is of decided interest.
schmichael 2y ago
Lots of HN are not US Citizens who frequently visit the US for work, school, and/or vacation.

mise_en_place 2y ago

[flagged]

sergers 2y ago

i was following this on another site before it showed up here: 1)UK citizens dont need a visa perse coming into canada as a tourist 1b) electronic travel authorization form is not required for UK citizens coming to canada over land border. 2)she was staying at Workaway, which depending on how you interpret/misinterpret is "working" (which it possibly is, a little shady on what they are.) so canada may have thought she was going to work... which a tourist visa doesnt cover so my guess is canadian authorities felt she was coming here to work, which she didnt have the proper paperwork so got denied. USA authorities upon re-entry attempt, probably felt she is scamming the ESTA 90 days being on a "4 month" trip, staying at workaway locations... and playing devils advocate, there is no proof that this is NOT what she was trying to do... going to a short trip in canada before going back thinking it resets ESTA (they have to be gone from usa for a reasonable time) so much unknowns. i think they were right to detain her/deny her entry... but the length of detainment is at issue. very first thing i think of when viewing their site is this is some lodging for volunteer/unpaid labour. https://www.workaway.info/ https://www.workaway.info/

cco 2y ago
> very first thing i think of when viewing their site is this is some lodging for volunteer/unpaid labour. https://www.workaway.info/ https://www.workaway.info/ I'm certainly not an immigration lawyer but my understanding is that _no_ work, none, even in exchange for room and board, is allowed on a tourist visa in the US. Workaway looks like it isn't compatible with a tourist visa in the US and their website doesn't really call that out. Seems like something that nine times out of ten if you're just quiet about it it'll never come up and you'd be fine. But unfortunately Canada refused entry and then questions were asked. Rough.
- Terretta 2y ago
  “Generally you will be expected to help around 5 hours per day in exchange for food and accommodation. Some hosts may give a paid allowance to ensure they are offering at least the minimum wage in their country.”
  - 2y ago

layman51 2y ago

Earlier this month, the Guardian also had an article of a German tourist who crossed over the land border (San Ysidro Port of Entry, I assume) who was detained for a long while too. The details seemed kind of similar to this situation where it involves suspicion of tourists working in the USA without the proper authorizations.

buyucu 2y ago
there is a second german tourist now in the same situation, detained while trying to visit his fiancee: https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1j7xjhf/it_is_like_jail_german_man_visiting_american/ https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1j7xjhf/it_is_li...
manosyja 2y ago
Couple days ago there was a report of another German tourist being arrested and held without legal counsel.
ajmurmann 2y ago
It seems like there was good reason for these concerns that the person was going to work. However, the person was right there at the border. Why did we not just turn them back around. I don't think they had overstayed their time in Mexico? Further they had a return flight weeks ago. AFAIk we have been paying to keep this person detained for over a month now. Why not at least put them on their original flight back. This entire approach with detention and deportations seems a very expensive solution. Edit: In general it seems that if the goal is to reduce illegal immigration, it would be much cheaper to deter most illegal migrants who generally come for economic reasons by fining employers of workers without permits. Instead of cost it brings in money and the illegal workers will deport themselves if all work dries up.
- layman51 2y ago
  It seems like a common detail for both situations is both travelers were at a land crossing. It sounds like a nightmare scenario but I bet they also could have been bounced back and forth between the guards of either country. At that point, one side will have to take on detention responsibilities because neither side will trust the person to make good on their return plans.

buyucu 2y ago

I will be avoiding all US travel in the near future. No need to get close to this kind of lunacy.

jmyeet 2y ago

Here's an example of how broken the discourse is over immigration and how the media has grossly failed with their responsibility in reporting something remotely factual. The majority of undocumented migrants aren't border crosses. They're visa overstayers [1]. And of course the "migrant crime" hysteria is completely made up. Despite there being at least 10 million undocumented migrants, the number of murders commited by both documented and undocumented migrants in 2024 was 29 [2]. Not 29,000. TWENTY NINE. That's a per-capita crime rate significantly lower than the American population. [1]: https://www.npr.org/2019/01/16/686056668/for-seventh-consecutive-year-visa-overstays-exceeded-illegal-border-crossings https://www.npr.org/2019/01/16/686056668/for-seventh-consecu... [2]: https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics/criminal-noncitizen-statistics https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistic...

cavisne 2y ago
[2] Is an incorrect interpretation. There is no nationwide data on murders by illegal immigrants, only some states like Texas collect this. CPB does not deport many murderers because they are serving prison sentences in the US. In 2022 there were 67 Texas murders by illegal immigrants, more than the supposed CPB FY22 number just in one state. https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/2024-06/Policy-Analysis-977-new-release-date.pdf https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/2024-06/Policy-Ana... The per capita trend is still directionally the same as your claim in Texas. The problem with illegal immigrant murders is there is a legal and proportional way to prevent all of them - don't let them in the first place. This isn't so easy for other murderers.

n1b0m 2y ago

A similar story about Ice detaining a German tourist in California indefinitely. Jessica Brösche has spent more than a month in detention center after being denied entry at San Diego from Mexico. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/03/ice-german-tourist-detained-immigration https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/03/ice-german-t...

DidYaWipe 2y ago
The hypocrisy of everything under this administration boggles the mind. "You're here illegally! No, we won't let you leave!"
- ohgr 2y ago
  I think it’s malicious incompetence. They probably rolled this out so fast and fired everyone who could manage it at the same time that it’s running at the stage of “how do we not starve these people” levels of chaos. What a shit show though.
  - throw16180339 2y ago
    ICE probably has quotas for detainment, so they're imprisoning people who would previously have been sent home.
    - potato3732842 2y ago
      Every day is a slow day these days so those guys who were hired to detain people are really scraping the bottom of the barrel. It's like being pulled over for nothing because there's nobody else to pull over at 1am on a Tuesday.
- bloomingeek 2y ago
  I have English relatives, my son-in-laws family, lovely people. They want to come visit again, but are concerned about the craziness of the current administration. When they visit, they spend plenty of money and have a great time. Does the GOP think tourists from other countries aren't paying attention?!?

paulsutter 2y ago

Little known fact: traveling to Canada, Mexico, or the Caribbean doesnt extend your 90 day visit to the US, in fact you keep the original 90 day stamp so the days spent in those places essentially count against the 90 days. This is a convenience for travelers to North America, you only need to enter the US once. But seems like she wasn't aware of this.

Razengan 2y ago

Hot Take: People should be allowed to travel and live wherever they want, if they can work/pay for it and follow local laws.

userbinator 2y ago
The local laws include requiring a valid visa.
- Razengan 2y ago
  Well I mean the freedom to travel and choose where you live should be a basic human right, and local laws aren't supposed to override basic rights.
  - userbinator 2y ago
    The world isn't a single country, and for good reason.

justforonepost 2y ago

Crazy as it seems I feel it's not safe to say this on my main account any more - I've done more than 100 trips to the US for work in the last decade but I've now concluded I've done my last for a few years at least. There's been a real uptick in these stories and now people legally in the US are being actively targeted and effectively disappeared for speech it doesn't feel like normalcy or due process apply. Similarly I wouldn't have visited China during the cultural revolution.

timeon 2y ago
This can potentially accelerate more in US than in China because of for-profit prisons.

motbus3 2y ago

I'm just waiting for this immigration crackdown to be done with and then we'll need to see who will be blamed for bad economy numbers.

stevenwoo 2y ago
They are ahead of you already, they are going to fudge/hide the numbers. https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/trump-admin-disbands-two-committees-advising-on-economic-stats-990d0b85 https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/trump-admin-disbands-two... This is like Soviet/CCCP style make the numbers match the plan sort of thing.
- motbus3 2y ago
  I am quite afraid to comment things on internet nowadays
  - stevenwoo 2y ago
    The proposed prosecution of environmental non profit groups looks like they are edging their way towards that end. https://newrepublic.com/post/192660/trump-fbi-charge-climate-organizations https://newrepublic.com/post/192660/trump-fbi-charge-climate...

codedokode 2y ago

A reasonable response to this for UK govt would be to check American tourists and see if they are properly complying with the law. Law is so complicated, no way you can't find at least one violation. Also, the article states that other people in the prison had been there for much longer time ("months"), but nobody writes articles about them.

n1b0m 2y ago
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/03/ice-german-tourist-detained-immigration https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/03/ice-german-t...

tim333 2y ago

The US has always been a scary place to cross the border. I'm a Brit and have been to 50+ countries and the US is the only one that seems like it's trying to find a reason to arrest you. The others generally don't give problems or possibly just refuse entry and you have to go back. The other thing that puzzles me about the US is they give basically law abiding travellers all sorts of grief while at the same time letting people just wander in from Mexico and live for years. Odd system.

AlotOfReading 2y ago
The US doesn't just let people wander in. The US-Mexico border is incredibly militarized, with multiple lines of checkpoints on either side and a massive amount of technology and manpower to support patrolling the desert between ports. It's closer to a conflict border than it is to a typical international border.
- gruez 2y ago
  >The US doesn't just let people wander in. The US-Mexico border is incredibly militarized, with multiple lines of checkpoints on either side. [...] It's closer to the DMZ than it is to a typical international border. Unless "multiple lines of checkpoints" actually means "multiple booths so visitors can be processed in parallel", this is most certainly false. Here's the San Ysidro boreder crossing in Tijuana: https://www.google.com/maps/@32.5423767,-117.0289817,331m/data=!3m1!1e3 https://www.google.com/maps/@32.5423767,-117.0289817,331m/da... You can see a wide fanout to a bunch of booths, a secondary screening area north of that, and some administrative buildings. That's not "multiple lines of checkpoints". It's just one checkpoint. There might be more drug sniffer dogs than the average border crossing elsewhere, but for the typical traveler it's otherwise not that much different.
  - AlotOfReading 2y ago
    San Ysidro is a port, only a small part of a much larger system run by the US CBP that extends up to 100 miles into the US. Here's the map of checkpoints for San Diego sector where San Ysidro is [0]. You can see an outdated map of the commonly used checkpoints for the whole US [1]. There's also a bunch of invisible infrastructure hidden between these checkpoints, from ALPR to facial recognition systems, not to mention regular patrols by USBP. Each sector's run a bit differently in practice, depending on various constraints and the different kinds of crossing they see. Tucson sector uses more mobile checkpoints because of congressional limitations for example, while Yuma sector focuses more on deep-desert patrolling in cooperation with tribal authorities because that's a well-developed coyote route. A reasonably similar system of checkpoints exists on the Mexican side as well, oriented against people heading north. [0] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/GAO-05-435_Figure_10.gif https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/GAO-05-4... [1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/USBP_Interior_Checkpoints_FY2020.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/USBP_Int...