4 ms·

Some incredibly shallow takes in this thread, most of which seem to be coming from people who didn't even read the article. The quote in context: > "They're go

by lurk2 2y ago

Some incredibly shallow takes in this thread, most of which seem to be coming from people who didn't even read the article. The quote in context: > "They're going to regret it," Seubert predicted. "Not financially or anything, but just from a historical perspective, the Internet Archive is valuable for all of us." This was not the central point of the article. He clearly is not saying that "the legal entity Capitol Records will manifest emotions and come to experience regret," but "the people who in aggregate comprise Capitol Records will regret the role they played in restricting access to these works," in the same way that a game developer on Hacker News might regret having added game-breaking DRM to a title he worked on twenty years ago, even though this allowed him to earn a lot of money.

pessimizer 2y ago
> "the people who in aggregate comprise Geffen Records will regret the role they played in restricting access to these works," Is this deep? What people in this thread are saying is that they won't regret nor remember it, and whatever comfort you're taking from thinking "in the end, after everything is ruined, they'll realize I was right" is cheap and lazy. Nobody needs anybody to point out that the loss of music is bad. Nobody needs anyone to conjure fantasies of future schadenfreude over the regret of record execs. People need tactics and strategies to figure out how to stop this destruction.
- rolandog 2y ago
  I think it's good to publicly express our disapproval. Because — as we have sadly seen recently — there will always be a small group of apologists defending villains or systematic oppressors: (It's worth also considering that the group size does not always correlate to its power or influence). But you are totally correct that thought-terminating expressions of Schadenfreude towards those who exert harm are not enough.
- lurk2 2y ago
  > What people in this thread are saying is that they won't regret nor remember it, and whatever comfort you're taking from thinking "in the end, after everything is ruined, they'll realize I was right" is cheap and lazy. There are multiple users in this thread stating that the label is a corporate entity designed to maximize profit and that it thus cannot "feel" anything. This was obviously not what was being stated. As to those claiming that these individuals won't regret what they have done: That may be true. But why does it happen with developers? Because it happens a lot. Neither I nor Seubert made this claim out of some pseudo-religious self-reassurance that "One day, they'll all get theirs!" but as a simple observation that these actions are ill-advised. I don't know how you could read it any other way without being intentionally obtuse. > Nobody needs anybody to point out that the loss of music is bad. What you're essentially saying here is: "Your observation was so obvious to me that it shouldn't have even been written down, because everyone already knew it." This is obnoxious and not in the spirit of the forum.
  - BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
    >There are multiple users in this thread stating that the label is a corporate entity designed to maximize profit and that it thus cannot "feel" anything. The issue is the surrounding system and the corporate environment are what raise people to be this way and filter out those who are too sentimental. I don’t think a good majority of the people working there will ever feel bad because they’ve been raised not to feel bad and given an ideology that makes all that work in their head.
  - ToucanLoucan 2y ago
    > As to those claiming that these individuals won't regret what they have done: That may be true. But why does it happen with developers? Because it happens a lot. Because Developers make games, and record execs make money. I'm sure there are a handful out there who actually give a shit about the art they make their money off of, but having worked with many of these people for many years, I assure you the vast majority are exactly as soulless as is depicted in virtually every movie or TV show that involves one, because the creatives behind those depictions have to deal with those soul-sucking vampires all the time, and they hate them. And the feeling there is very mutual, which is why every executive is creaming themselves at the prospect of being able to get rid of creatives and replace them with "AI." > Neither I nor Seubert made this claim out of some pseudo-religious self-reassurance that "One day, they'll all get theirs!" but as a simple observation that these actions are ill-advised. I don't know how you could read it any other way without being intentionally obtuse. Because, as is outlined by the commenter, the notion of "they'll regret this" is presupposing multiple bad assumptions, namely that record executives give the faintest shit about music beyond it's ability to make number go up. Oh no, Capital Records has a bad reputation. It will still stream. Album sales will be unaffected because consumer revolt has always been worthless as a tactic. What are they regretting?
- thayne 2y ago
  > Nobody needs anybody to point out that the loss of music is bad The people filing this suit obviously do.
fragmede 2y ago
Are they? do you really think y'know what, reselling the cracked pirate copy of my game from 20 years ago that instead of my pristine version because I lost the source but I'm still making money, and that 20 years ago, fundamentally, it was really nice to be able to afford a roof over my head and provide for my wife and kids; You really think there's more than a passing feeling of regret?
- freejazz 2y ago
  I agree with you, it's an absurd suggestion offered with zero reasoning.
- lurk2 2y ago
  DRM might have been a bad example, but it is one I've seen before. Another story I see here often is that a developer had an independent studio. The studio develops a game or an application. As the game or application ages, the developer sells it. The acquiring company goes defunct or discontinues the sale of the program some time later, and the developer wishes he would have just posted the source code for the program. I get what you're saying in that the revealed preference is towards the "bad" behavior, but I think there is something to be said for the capacity to feel regret being a necessary precursor to discourage bad behavior from occurring in the future. The thread seems to be divided between those who believe the people working at these labels might have that capacity and those who believe that these people are essentially amoral monsters who are only concerned by the perverse vaguery of "maximizing returns."
- xnzakg 2y ago
  Something like this? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37394665 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37394665
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
nerdponx 2y ago
It's wishful thinking. These people know what they're doing and won't regret it as they live out their days in comfort and luxury.

by lurk2 2y ago

pessimizer 2y ago

> "the people who in aggregate comprise Geffen Records will regret the role they played in restricting access to these works," Is this deep? What people in this thread are saying is that they won't regret nor remember it, and whatever comfort you're taking from thinking "in the end, after everything is ruined, they'll realize I was right" is cheap and lazy. Nobody needs anybody to point out that the loss of music is bad. Nobody needs anyone to conjure fantasies of future schadenfreude over the regret of record execs. People need tactics and strategies to figure out how to stop this destruction.

rolandog 2y ago
I think it's good to publicly express our disapproval. Because — as we have sadly seen recently — there will always be a small group of apologists defending villains or systematic oppressors: (It's worth also considering that the group size does not always correlate to its power or influence). But you are totally correct that thought-terminating expressions of Schadenfreude towards those who exert harm are not enough.
lurk2 2y ago
> What people in this thread are saying is that they won't regret nor remember it, and whatever comfort you're taking from thinking "in the end, after everything is ruined, they'll realize I was right" is cheap and lazy. There are multiple users in this thread stating that the label is a corporate entity designed to maximize profit and that it thus cannot "feel" anything. This was obviously not what was being stated. As to those claiming that these individuals won't regret what they have done: That may be true. But why does it happen with developers? Because it happens a lot. Neither I nor Seubert made this claim out of some pseudo-religious self-reassurance that "One day, they'll all get theirs!" but as a simple observation that these actions are ill-advised. I don't know how you could read it any other way without being intentionally obtuse. > Nobody needs anybody to point out that the loss of music is bad. What you're essentially saying here is: "Your observation was so obvious to me that it shouldn't have even been written down, because everyone already knew it." This is obnoxious and not in the spirit of the forum.
- BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
  >There are multiple users in this thread stating that the label is a corporate entity designed to maximize profit and that it thus cannot "feel" anything. The issue is the surrounding system and the corporate environment are what raise people to be this way and filter out those who are too sentimental. I don’t think a good majority of the people working there will ever feel bad because they’ve been raised not to feel bad and given an ideology that makes all that work in their head.
- ToucanLoucan 2y ago
  > As to those claiming that these individuals won't regret what they have done: That may be true. But why does it happen with developers? Because it happens a lot. Because Developers make games, and record execs make money. I'm sure there are a handful out there who actually give a shit about the art they make their money off of, but having worked with many of these people for many years, I assure you the vast majority are exactly as soulless as is depicted in virtually every movie or TV show that involves one, because the creatives behind those depictions have to deal with those soul-sucking vampires all the time, and they hate them. And the feeling there is very mutual, which is why every executive is creaming themselves at the prospect of being able to get rid of creatives and replace them with "AI." > Neither I nor Seubert made this claim out of some pseudo-religious self-reassurance that "One day, they'll all get theirs!" but as a simple observation that these actions are ill-advised. I don't know how you could read it any other way without being intentionally obtuse. Because, as is outlined by the commenter, the notion of "they'll regret this" is presupposing multiple bad assumptions, namely that record executives give the faintest shit about music beyond it's ability to make number go up. Oh no, Capital Records has a bad reputation. It will still stream. Album sales will be unaffected because consumer revolt has always been worthless as a tactic. What are they regretting?
thayne 2y ago
> Nobody needs anybody to point out that the loss of music is bad The people filing this suit obviously do.

fragmede 2y ago

Are they? do you really think y'know what, reselling the cracked pirate copy of my game from 20 years ago that instead of my pristine version because I lost the source but I'm still making money, and that 20 years ago, fundamentally, it was really nice to be able to afford a roof over my head and provide for my wife and kids; You really think there's more than a passing feeling of regret?

freejazz 2y ago
I agree with you, it's an absurd suggestion offered with zero reasoning.
lurk2 2y ago
DRM might have been a bad example, but it is one I've seen before. Another story I see here often is that a developer had an independent studio. The studio develops a game or an application. As the game or application ages, the developer sells it. The acquiring company goes defunct or discontinues the sale of the program some time later, and the developer wishes he would have just posted the source code for the program. I get what you're saying in that the revealed preference is towards the "bad" behavior, but I think there is something to be said for the capacity to feel regret being a necessary precursor to discourage bad behavior from occurring in the future. The thread seems to be divided between those who believe the people working at these labels might have that capacity and those who believe that these people are essentially amoral monsters who are only concerned by the perverse vaguery of "maximizing returns."
xnzakg 2y ago
Something like this? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37394665 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37394665

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

nerdponx 2y ago

It's wishful thinking. These people know what they're doing and won't regret it as they live out their days in comfort and luxury.