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Just brainstorming a bit, if IA is gone, how can we lawsuit-proof that the next digital Library of Alexandria? Do we have the technology for this? - IPFS over

Just brainstorming a bit, if IA is gone, how can we lawsuit-proof that the next digital Library of Alexandria? Do we have the technology for this? - IPFS over some type of dark net protocol? - Can something like Chia help? I don't know about its privacy characteristics.

freejazz 2y ago
Start might be not violating copyright law and staying within the boundaries of established fair use principles. IA is constantly trying to push the law on these issues, for better or worse, and putting the entirety of its operations at risk.
NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
>IPFS over some type of dark net protocol? Silk Road is a good example of what will happen. Some media mogul will eventually cajole the government into acting. The government will go to the NSA, find the true identities of those responsible, then cook up nonsense about how they gave away their identities due to some weird Stack Overflow question no one could ever notice. The US Attorney will prosecute, and claim that it's a felony because of economic benefit, even if no money was exchanged. The culprits will end up in supermax. They can't afford to do this to everyone, obviously, but they'll pick up to 100 or so of a mix of the worst offenders and the most casual users, to "set an example". The media will publicize it to the point of absurdity so the message sinks in.
- SpaceManNabs 2y ago
  > then cook up nonsense about how they gave away their identities due to some weird Stack Overflow question no one could ever notice In case people don't understand why the government can do this, it is called parallel construction and the SCOTUS deemed it constitutional. Btw this comment is not me approving this behavior. And that last sentence was not a hint of me approving that behavior in secret :). Those last two sentences are a hint of what I think about the scotus on this topic though :)
- throwawayyK0va 2y ago
  There are other countries in the world, in fact, that's where most of these digital libraries of Alexandria have been hosted. That's why I framed it as a technical question, because while any government may decide to combat it, it is unlikely that all of them will. Given the ongoing collapse of the US-led unipolar world order, the reach of US law enforcement will only shrink in the coming years.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
    >There are other countries in the world, I believe the owner of Kickass Torrents was either in Ukraine or Poland, can't remember anymore. Didn't save that one. Kim Dotcom was in New Zealand, and the crime he was accused of committing in the United States (when he had never stepped foot in the United States, and also a crime that isn't extraditable under New Zealand law) he barely managed to avoid being shipped off in chains. That won't save anyone. >Given the ongoing collapse of the US-led unipolar world order, I wouldn't recommend relying on the "collapse of American hegemony" to save anyone. But especially not anyone you care about (like maybe yourself).
TylerE 2y ago
By not hiring dumb people who flagrantly and obviously violate the law.
- dredmorbius 2y ago
  Appeasement has done nil against copyright absolutists.
  - TylerE 2y ago
    It getting sued out of existence is not appeasement. It’s literally following the law. That is how non profits that wish to continue to operate do things.
    - dredmorbius 2y ago
      What alternatives to legal actions / the judiciary do you suggest for copyright reform? The legislative approach is thwarted by the copyright lobby. The executive has neither will, interest, nor power.
      - TylerE 2y ago
        The mission of the Internet Archive should not be "copyright reform" but maintaining the continued availability of data it is legally allowed to host.
        def13 2y ago
        Then which organization is better positioned and able to push for copyright reform in your opinion?
        TylerE 2y ago
        That would entirely mean what you mean by "copyright reform". If you mean the typical crypto anarchist data hoarder everything should be free and open after 5 minutes sense, or anything close to it, frankly I don't support, so my answer is to route such ideas to /dev/null.
boldlybold 2y ago
Anna's Archive is on the path to this, for written works at least. The main idea is open source code + distributed data in torrents + anonymous contributors that are dedicated to the project. https://annas-archive.li/blog https://annas-archive.li/blog
- ed_mercer 2y ago
  Also MAM
  - boldlybold 2y ago
    That's a new acronym to me, what is it?
    - def13 2y ago
      Its a private-ish (interview required) bittorrent tracker for ebooks. Very different goals to IA/AA, who see the universality & ease of access as core to the mission. Its more like old-fashioned gated archives at universities & libraries that essentially tried to slow and limit access to their collections to avoid the issues that IA is coming against legally.

freejazz 2y ago

Start might be not violating copyright law and staying within the boundaries of established fair use principles. IA is constantly trying to push the law on these issues, for better or worse, and putting the entirety of its operations at risk.

NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago

>IPFS over some type of dark net protocol? Silk Road is a good example of what will happen. Some media mogul will eventually cajole the government into acting. The government will go to the NSA, find the true identities of those responsible, then cook up nonsense about how they gave away their identities due to some weird Stack Overflow question no one could ever notice. The US Attorney will prosecute, and claim that it's a felony because of economic benefit, even if no money was exchanged. The culprits will end up in supermax. They can't afford to do this to everyone, obviously, but they'll pick up to 100 or so of a mix of the worst offenders and the most casual users, to "set an example". The media will publicize it to the point of absurdity so the message sinks in.

SpaceManNabs 2y ago
> then cook up nonsense about how they gave away their identities due to some weird Stack Overflow question no one could ever notice In case people don't understand why the government can do this, it is called parallel construction and the SCOTUS deemed it constitutional. Btw this comment is not me approving this behavior. And that last sentence was not a hint of me approving that behavior in secret :). Those last two sentences are a hint of what I think about the scotus on this topic though :)
throwawayyK0va 2y ago
There are other countries in the world, in fact, that's where most of these digital libraries of Alexandria have been hosted. That's why I framed it as a technical question, because while any government may decide to combat it, it is unlikely that all of them will. Given the ongoing collapse of the US-led unipolar world order, the reach of US law enforcement will only shrink in the coming years.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
  >There are other countries in the world, I believe the owner of Kickass Torrents was either in Ukraine or Poland, can't remember anymore. Didn't save that one. Kim Dotcom was in New Zealand, and the crime he was accused of committing in the United States (when he had never stepped foot in the United States, and also a crime that isn't extraditable under New Zealand law) he barely managed to avoid being shipped off in chains. That won't save anyone. >Given the ongoing collapse of the US-led unipolar world order, I wouldn't recommend relying on the "collapse of American hegemony" to save anyone. But especially not anyone you care about (like maybe yourself).

TylerE 2y ago

By not hiring dumb people who flagrantly and obviously violate the law.

dredmorbius 2y ago
Appeasement has done nil against copyright absolutists.
- TylerE 2y ago
  It getting sued out of existence is not appeasement. It’s literally following the law. That is how non profits that wish to continue to operate do things.
  - dredmorbius 2y ago
    What alternatives to legal actions / the judiciary do you suggest for copyright reform? The legislative approach is thwarted by the copyright lobby. The executive has neither will, interest, nor power.
    - TylerE 2y ago
      The mission of the Internet Archive should not be "copyright reform" but maintaining the continued availability of data it is legally allowed to host.
      - def13 2y ago
        Then which organization is better positioned and able to push for copyright reform in your opinion?
        TylerE 2y ago
        That would entirely mean what you mean by "copyright reform". If you mean the typical crypto anarchist data hoarder everything should be free and open after 5 minutes sense, or anything close to it, frankly I don't support, so my answer is to route such ideas to /dev/null.

boldlybold 2y ago

Anna's Archive is on the path to this, for written works at least. The main idea is open source code + distributed data in torrents + anonymous contributors that are dedicated to the project. https://annas-archive.li/blog https://annas-archive.li/blog

ed_mercer 2y ago
Also MAM
- boldlybold 2y ago
  That's a new acronym to me, what is it?
  - def13 2y ago
    Its a private-ish (interview required) bittorrent tracker for ebooks. Very different goals to IA/AA, who see the universality & ease of access as core to the mission. Its more like old-fashioned gated archives at universities & libraries that essentially tried to slow and limit access to their collections to avoid the issues that IA is coming against legally.