4 ms·

This analysis is lacking. People didn't vote for Trump because they analyzed his proposed economic policies and decided they would improve their situation. Almo

This analysis is lacking. People didn't vote for Trump because they analyzed his proposed economic policies and decided they would improve their situation. Almost nobody votes like that. There's general financial anxiety in the US, and he promised to fix it. What methods he proposed using are almost irrelevant, it's the rhetoric around them that sways voters. The narrative is now one of temporary hardship to excise the supposed rot of the system that is the root cause of the aforementioned anxiety. Pointing out that inflation is bad has no persuasive power over someone bought in on that narrative. The only way to sway general support away from this self-destructive administration is to offer another path towards alleviating the problems that voters face in their lives. The time when you could run on promises of competent administration alone has passed.

vkou 2y ago
Harris also promised to fix it, and had an actual plan for addressing housing, education, medical costs, and prices in general, but we are all now pretending like none of that was a part of her campaign. Anyways, it's telling that everyone who was anxious over $3.50/dozen eggs in November is deathly silent over what's been happening in the past few weeks. All of a sudden, all of those people are now in the 'we have to be patient and get through the pain, there's definitely a payoff at the end' boat. (Milk's $11/gallon at my grocery, by the way. Unless I buy 5 gallons at a time.)
- itsdrewmiller 2y ago
  What kind of milk and what grocery store? That claim beggars belief.
- gs17 2y ago
  > Milk's $11/gallon at my grocery You should shop somewhere else, unless you're in Hawaii or something. That's not a normal price for most of the country.
  - vkou 2y ago
    $5.50 for half a gallon of lactaid at my local QFC. ($5 for it at the Safeway that I'd spend another 25 minutes getting to and back from) https://imgur.com/9rpmfr2 https://imgur.com/9rpmfr2 All the sub-$5.50 options were sold out when I went last week. The gallon jugs only hit a good price point at 'buy five'. I suppose I could move to some flyover shithole where milk is cheaper and I'd get paid one third as much, and my wife would be denied medical care by a government small enough to fit in her reproductive system, but I'm not sure that would be as big a win as one would think.
- csa 2y ago
  > Harris also promised to fix it, and had an actual plan for addressing housing, education, medical costs, and prices in general, but we are all now pretending like none of that was a part of her campaign. Part of that is because there were tons of ads focusing on taxpayer funded sex changes for prisoners (funded by pro-Trump orgs): https://youtu.be/kQEMn1yRYVU https://youtu.be/kQEMn1yRYVU I have friends and family in Georgia, supposedly a swing state. They said that they could not escape seeing this add multiple times a day on tv or internet. Regardless of what one believes about the underlying premise of the ad, it is incredibly narrow in terms of scope, and that narrative stuck. I have a feeling this is one reason why many folks weren’t aware of her plans.
  - vkou 2y ago
    I mean, sure, if their source of information about her policies is attack ads ran by her opponent, that says more about the media they watch than it does about her. She doesn't control the press, if it won't cover the policies, what is she to do?
    - csa 2y ago
      > that says more about the media they watch than it does about her According to my family member who notices such things (and is not MAGA or conservative), Trump controlled most streaming ads/narratives, while Harris had more of the broadcast ads/narratives, especially for sports (minimally political). I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss this as a media silo issue.
      - johnnyanmac 2y ago
        That sounds exactly like a media solo issue. Except the fact that it's billionaire new media choose who gets to see what ad. I would be surpsied if part of big tech's choices on ads wasn't based on the leaders' own preferences. Especially in swing states
        disgruntledphd2 2y ago
        That would require a massive, massive conspiracy that would be difficult to hide.
sanktanglia 2y ago
You are ignoring how trump focused far more on hurting people they don't like(immigrants , trans people and minorities) than on any actual economic policy. He and the Republicans fomented a hate wave and he rode it right back into the White House. So damn shameful for this country
- adamc 2y ago
  Yep. MAGA is a hate movement.
  - jrs235 2y ago
    Making Aging Generations Angry
- idle_zealot 2y ago
  You're not wrong, but there's more to it than just hate. The tactic is to associate the real problems, economic insecurity, social isolation, etc with groups that are vulnerable to persecution and that people are primed to hate already. Deporting migrants is the proposed solution to economic woes and and a perception of high crime and low trust/alienation. Likewise the queerbashing and trans hate gets associated with the perceived problem of social discohesion and a general lack of control. These associations have been built up over a long time, and those wrapped up in the right wing media sphere view cruelty as both cathartic and effective means to fix what ails society.
usefulcat 2y ago
It's not enough to have a plan, as a sibling commenter pointed out. Looks more like straight-up irrational team-based tribalism to me. That and ordinary ignorance. How else do you explain a Republican candidate campaigning on raising taxes and winning?
- idle_zealot 2y ago
  It's not about the concrete details of a plan, it's the feeling, the messaging and the rhetoric. Kamala did not read that the electorate wanted a promise of dramatic action, and ran on competent administration and minor, incremental improvements while largely staying the course. That does not motivate people upset with the status quo to come out and vote.
  - intended 2y ago
    This is the wrong question - in that if you spend your time focusing on why Harris lost, you will miss the question of what allowed Trump to run in the first place. The second question tells you far more about the actual arena within which the electoral narratives are sold. Here the Dems are the Heels, and the meta story is about having the information warfare power to sell these stories. Focusing on Harris is the mistake of assuming if you are perfect, you can get people in an unfair relationship to treat you better. Betting on winning in an unfair fight, is bad strategy and tactics. At some point, its far more effective to spend your energy on ensuring the arena terrain is even and not severely slanted against one team.
AnimalMuppet 2y ago
> The narrative is now one of temporary hardship to excise the supposed rot of the system that is the root cause of the aforementioned anxiety. OK. > The only way to sway general support away from this self-destructive administration is to offer another path towards alleviating the problems that voters face in their lives. The time when you could run on promises of competent administration alone has passed. Disagree. Another three years of this and "temporary hardship" will be exposed as wishful thinking. People will want actual competence.
- intended 2y ago
  Faith is stronger than reason. Faith just requires a sign every so often to remind the faithful that the weakness wasn’t in their leader, it was in their zealousness and inability to believe in the greater invisible plan. You are up against zealots and cult behavior, not being up front about this results in plans for a different reality.
johnnyanmac 2y ago
Of course That is how they vote. But their analysis isn't on the impact of tarriffs nor the economic strength of trade. It's on egg prices and job market vibes and other everyday sorts of stuff. He promised he'd fix those. And it seems the center seokg voters are facing a lot of regret on that right now.

vkou 2y ago

Harris also promised to fix it, and had an actual plan for addressing housing, education, medical costs, and prices in general, but we are all now pretending like none of that was a part of her campaign. Anyways, it's telling that everyone who was anxious over $3.50/dozen eggs in November is deathly silent over what's been happening in the past few weeks. All of a sudden, all of those people are now in the 'we have to be patient and get through the pain, there's definitely a payoff at the end' boat. (Milk's $11/gallon at my grocery, by the way. Unless I buy 5 gallons at a time.)

itsdrewmiller 2y ago
What kind of milk and what grocery store? That claim beggars belief.
gs17 2y ago
> Milk's $11/gallon at my grocery You should shop somewhere else, unless you're in Hawaii or something. That's not a normal price for most of the country.
- vkou 2y ago
  $5.50 for half a gallon of lactaid at my local QFC. ($5 for it at the Safeway that I'd spend another 25 minutes getting to and back from) https://imgur.com/9rpmfr2 https://imgur.com/9rpmfr2 All the sub-$5.50 options were sold out when I went last week. The gallon jugs only hit a good price point at 'buy five'. I suppose I could move to some flyover shithole where milk is cheaper and I'd get paid one third as much, and my wife would be denied medical care by a government small enough to fit in her reproductive system, but I'm not sure that would be as big a win as one would think.
csa 2y ago
> Harris also promised to fix it, and had an actual plan for addressing housing, education, medical costs, and prices in general, but we are all now pretending like none of that was a part of her campaign. Part of that is because there were tons of ads focusing on taxpayer funded sex changes for prisoners (funded by pro-Trump orgs): https://youtu.be/kQEMn1yRYVU https://youtu.be/kQEMn1yRYVU I have friends and family in Georgia, supposedly a swing state. They said that they could not escape seeing this add multiple times a day on tv or internet. Regardless of what one believes about the underlying premise of the ad, it is incredibly narrow in terms of scope, and that narrative stuck. I have a feeling this is one reason why many folks weren’t aware of her plans.
- vkou 2y ago
  I mean, sure, if their source of information about her policies is attack ads ran by her opponent, that says more about the media they watch than it does about her. She doesn't control the press, if it won't cover the policies, what is she to do?
  - csa 2y ago
    > that says more about the media they watch than it does about her According to my family member who notices such things (and is not MAGA or conservative), Trump controlled most streaming ads/narratives, while Harris had more of the broadcast ads/narratives, especially for sports (minimally political). I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss this as a media silo issue.
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      That sounds exactly like a media solo issue. Except the fact that it's billionaire new media choose who gets to see what ad. I would be surpsied if part of big tech's choices on ads wasn't based on the leaders' own preferences. Especially in swing states
      - disgruntledphd2 2y ago
        That would require a massive, massive conspiracy that would be difficult to hide.

sanktanglia 2y ago

You are ignoring how trump focused far more on hurting people they don't like(immigrants , trans people and minorities) than on any actual economic policy. He and the Republicans fomented a hate wave and he rode it right back into the White House. So damn shameful for this country

adamc 2y ago
Yep. MAGA is a hate movement.
- jrs235 2y ago
  Making Aging Generations Angry
idle_zealot 2y ago
You're not wrong, but there's more to it than just hate. The tactic is to associate the real problems, economic insecurity, social isolation, etc with groups that are vulnerable to persecution and that people are primed to hate already. Deporting migrants is the proposed solution to economic woes and and a perception of high crime and low trust/alienation. Likewise the queerbashing and trans hate gets associated with the perceived problem of social discohesion and a general lack of control. These associations have been built up over a long time, and those wrapped up in the right wing media sphere view cruelty as both cathartic and effective means to fix what ails society.

usefulcat 2y ago

It's not enough to have a plan, as a sibling commenter pointed out. Looks more like straight-up irrational team-based tribalism to me. That and ordinary ignorance. How else do you explain a Republican candidate campaigning on raising taxes and winning?

idle_zealot 2y ago
It's not about the concrete details of a plan, it's the feeling, the messaging and the rhetoric. Kamala did not read that the electorate wanted a promise of dramatic action, and ran on competent administration and minor, incremental improvements while largely staying the course. That does not motivate people upset with the status quo to come out and vote.
- intended 2y ago
  This is the wrong question - in that if you spend your time focusing on why Harris lost, you will miss the question of what allowed Trump to run in the first place. The second question tells you far more about the actual arena within which the electoral narratives are sold. Here the Dems are the Heels, and the meta story is about having the information warfare power to sell these stories. Focusing on Harris is the mistake of assuming if you are perfect, you can get people in an unfair relationship to treat you better. Betting on winning in an unfair fight, is bad strategy and tactics. At some point, its far more effective to spend your energy on ensuring the arena terrain is even and not severely slanted against one team.

AnimalMuppet 2y ago

> The narrative is now one of temporary hardship to excise the supposed rot of the system that is the root cause of the aforementioned anxiety. OK. > The only way to sway general support away from this self-destructive administration is to offer another path towards alleviating the problems that voters face in their lives. The time when you could run on promises of competent administration alone has passed. Disagree. Another three years of this and "temporary hardship" will be exposed as wishful thinking. People will want actual competence.

intended 2y ago
Faith is stronger than reason. Faith just requires a sign every so often to remind the faithful that the weakness wasn’t in their leader, it was in their zealousness and inability to believe in the greater invisible plan. You are up against zealots and cult behavior, not being up front about this results in plans for a different reality.

johnnyanmac 2y ago

Of course That is how they vote. But their analysis isn't on the impact of tarriffs nor the economic strength of trade. It's on egg prices and job market vibes and other everyday sorts of stuff. He promised he'd fix those. And it seems the center seokg voters are facing a lot of regret on that right now.