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Is it common practice to go flying without checking for a NOTAM that might impact your intended route? (I'm not trying to insult you or anything, I'm not a pilo

by nradov 2y ago

Is it common practice to go flying without checking for a NOTAM that might impact your intended route? (I'm not trying to insult you or anything, I'm not a pilot and don't know the standard procedures for dealing with those.)

jrockway 2y ago
Should you brief the NOTAMs? Yes. Is it common to miss one? Also yes. Go look at the ATC YouTube channels and you will find lots of people being intercepted by fighter jets even though they use Foreflight. Another problem is NOTAM spam; it seems like, in some areas, there are a bunch of NOTAMs that aren't very important but that you still have to read through to see if they're relevant. "We're testing GPS jamming" or "we will send a fighter jet if you fly into this rectangle" look a lot like the more common "taxiway T at Middle Of Nowhere Municipal Airport is out of service until 1/1/2038".
- jameslk 2y ago
  Could be a good opportunity for using an LLM to summarize and extract anything important?
  - buildsjets 2y ago
    Here’s a critical NOTAM that was missed. Translated, it means, if you fly here, the Russians will shoot your ass down. And so they did. But nothing encodes that information in the NOTAM so there is nothing for an LLM to summarize and extract. Expecting an AI to compensate for poor system design is magical thinking. A1492/14 NOTAM Q) UKDV/QRTCA/IV/BO /W /260/320/4822N03807E095 A) UKDV B) 1407141800 C) 1408142359EST E) TEMPO RESTRICTED AREA INSTALLED WITHIN FIR DNIPROPETROVSK BOUNDED BY COORDINATES : 495355N 0380155E 485213N 0372209E 480122N 0370253E 471352N 0365856E 465018N 0374325E 465900N 0382000E 470642N 0381324E THEN ALONG STATE BOUNDARY UNTIL POINT 495355N 0380155E. RESTRICTION NOT APPLIED FOR FLIGHTS OF STATE ACFT OF UKRAINE. F) FL260 G) FL320) Besides that, would the developer of the LLM accept liability for accidentally filtering out important NOTAMS, or hallucinating NOTAMS that did not exist?
    - dataflow 2y ago
      That looks less like poor system design (although I'm sure that's contributing) and more like understatement that's practically criminal. Who the hells hears "Russia may shoot down your plane if you go here" and thinks they should convey it via "tempo restricted area bounded by coordinates"? That's like posting a "do not enter" on a door with a bomb behind it. Is English so hard?
      - dpe82 2y ago
        For pilots, "restricted area" is already synonymous with "absolutely do not even think about going here" and is used for things like military testing and training areas that regularly use live ammo, extremely sensitive military or bases, etc. As a concrete example, Area 51 is in a "restricted area".
        dataflow 2y ago
        > For pilots, "restricted area" is already synonymous with "absolutely do not even think about going here" I don't buy it. How often do you hear of a passenger plane getting shot down for entering restricted airspace over peaceful territory like the US? What about over combat zones, like over Ukraine or Russia? Who in their right mind equates these as as equally severe? If you had to make an emergency landing would you seriously view these equally?
        dpe82 2y ago
        At least within the US, entering a restricted area without authorization can result in your own personal military air show, followed by lots of questioning, possibly prison, losing your license or both. You don't mess around with restricted areas unless you have a damn good reason.
        dataflow 2y ago
        >> I don't buy it. How often do you hear of a passenger plane getting shot down > At least within the US, entering a restricted area without authorization can result in your own personal military air show, followed by lots of questioning, possibly prison, losing your license or both. You don't mess around with restricted areas unless you have a damn good reason. You're not taking my point. I don't know about you, but I would sure as hell prefer prison over myself and hundreds of other people falling from 40,000 feet.
- dmd 2y ago
  "One lamp out of 18 on this radio tower is operating at 75% brightness" repeated every day for years
buildsjets 2y ago
NOTAMS are a bunch of garbage that no one pays any attention to. That’s not my opinion, that’s the opinion of former NTSB chairman Robert Sumwalt. I’m sure the GPS NOTAM was buried somewhere in the 27 page NOTAM list and it probably said something like this actual current GPS NOTAM: !GPS 03/022 GPS NAV PRN 08 U/S 2503061847-2506050001 https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2018-09-28/ntsb-chairman-calls-notams-garbage https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/20...
kevin42 2y ago
I was flying in and out of a private airport in uncontrolled airspace, so I didn't check. If was my first test flight so I was pretty much just circling around my airstrip. If I'm flying cross country, in to controlled airspace, or an airport I'm not familiar with, I will. But this particular notam didn't show up when I looked at nearby airports.

by nradov 2y ago

jrockway 2y ago

Should you brief the NOTAMs? Yes. Is it common to miss one? Also yes. Go look at the ATC YouTube channels and you will find lots of people being intercepted by fighter jets even though they use Foreflight. Another problem is NOTAM spam; it seems like, in some areas, there are a bunch of NOTAMs that aren't very important but that you still have to read through to see if they're relevant. "We're testing GPS jamming" or "we will send a fighter jet if you fly into this rectangle" look a lot like the more common "taxiway T at Middle Of Nowhere Municipal Airport is out of service until 1/1/2038".

jameslk 2y ago
Could be a good opportunity for using an LLM to summarize and extract anything important?
- buildsjets 2y ago
  Here’s a critical NOTAM that was missed. Translated, it means, if you fly here, the Russians will shoot your ass down. And so they did. But nothing encodes that information in the NOTAM so there is nothing for an LLM to summarize and extract. Expecting an AI to compensate for poor system design is magical thinking. A1492/14 NOTAM Q) UKDV/QRTCA/IV/BO /W /260/320/4822N03807E095 A) UKDV B) 1407141800 C) 1408142359EST E) TEMPO RESTRICTED AREA INSTALLED WITHIN FIR DNIPROPETROVSK BOUNDED BY COORDINATES : 495355N 0380155E 485213N 0372209E 480122N 0370253E 471352N 0365856E 465018N 0374325E 465900N 0382000E 470642N 0381324E THEN ALONG STATE BOUNDARY UNTIL POINT 495355N 0380155E. RESTRICTION NOT APPLIED FOR FLIGHTS OF STATE ACFT OF UKRAINE. F) FL260 G) FL320) Besides that, would the developer of the LLM accept liability for accidentally filtering out important NOTAMS, or hallucinating NOTAMS that did not exist?
  - dataflow 2y ago
    That looks less like poor system design (although I'm sure that's contributing) and more like understatement that's practically criminal. Who the hells hears "Russia may shoot down your plane if you go here" and thinks they should convey it via "tempo restricted area bounded by coordinates"? That's like posting a "do not enter" on a door with a bomb behind it. Is English so hard?
    - dpe82 2y ago
      For pilots, "restricted area" is already synonymous with "absolutely do not even think about going here" and is used for things like military testing and training areas that regularly use live ammo, extremely sensitive military or bases, etc. As a concrete example, Area 51 is in a "restricted area".
      - dataflow 2y ago
        > For pilots, "restricted area" is already synonymous with "absolutely do not even think about going here" I don't buy it. How often do you hear of a passenger plane getting shot down for entering restricted airspace over peaceful territory like the US? What about over combat zones, like over Ukraine or Russia? Who in their right mind equates these as as equally severe? If you had to make an emergency landing would you seriously view these equally?
        dpe82 2y ago
        At least within the US, entering a restricted area without authorization can result in your own personal military air show, followed by lots of questioning, possibly prison, losing your license or both. You don't mess around with restricted areas unless you have a damn good reason.
        dataflow 2y ago
        >> I don't buy it. How often do you hear of a passenger plane getting shot down > At least within the US, entering a restricted area without authorization can result in your own personal military air show, followed by lots of questioning, possibly prison, losing your license or both. You don't mess around with restricted areas unless you have a damn good reason. You're not taking my point. I don't know about you, but I would sure as hell prefer prison over myself and hundreds of other people falling from 40,000 feet.
dmd 2y ago
"One lamp out of 18 on this radio tower is operating at 75% brightness" repeated every day for years

buildsjets 2y ago

NOTAMS are a bunch of garbage that no one pays any attention to. That’s not my opinion, that’s the opinion of former NTSB chairman Robert Sumwalt. I’m sure the GPS NOTAM was buried somewhere in the 27 page NOTAM list and it probably said something like this actual current GPS NOTAM: !GPS 03/022 GPS NAV PRN 08 U/S 2503061847-2506050001 https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2018-09-28/ntsb-chairman-calls-notams-garbage https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/20...

kevin42 2y ago

I was flying in and out of a private airport in uncontrolled airspace, so I didn't check. If was my first test flight so I was pretty much just circling around my airstrip. If I'm flying cross country, in to controlled airspace, or an airport I'm not familiar with, I will. But this particular notam didn't show up when I looked at nearby airports.