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I have a model 3 (from 2023), that is rated 270 miles. I can get at max 120 miles, more like 90 miles from it. My drive to work involves going steeply uphill, n

• roflchoppa 2y ago
  How fast do you normally drive?
• Rebelgecko 2y ago
  what's the mileage like when you take into account the downhill return trip? Unless your commute is uphill both ways through the snow :)
  • Spivak 2y ago
    There might not actually be a downhill return trip if the commute involves going over a bunch of hills as is common in a pretty well known city that both has a lot of teslas and fits the parent's description.
    • decimalenough 2y ago
      If so, they'll get much of the energy expended going uphill back on the downhills, thanks to regenerative braking.
      • lathiat 2y ago
        In the Tesla Semi announcement, they showed pretty impressive data on exactly that. Here's a shot of the graph and some data: https://kilowatt.page/tesla-semi-regen-roundtrip-efficiency-is-95-percent/ https://kilowatt.page/tesla-semi-regen-roundtrip-efficiency-... Of course, this is from Tesla, and they famously puff up everything.. but I would expect even if not as good as claimed here, for the downhill part to certainly help a lot still. What may not help is if they fully charge at work and have no battery capacity to soak up the regen on the way home. Regen ability gets limited the closer you get to 100%.
        • hedora 2y ago
          Neither are Teslas, but our cars range from getting 10%-33% back when going back down a mountain (curves, no traffic, avoiding using the brake pads or switching between charge/discharge on the throttle). The results they report are incomparable for two reasons: - straight line steep mountain roads don’t exist. On curvy roads (like mine) they’d need to repeatedly round trip energy to and from the battery, and that’s going to eat about 5% each time. - the article claims going up and down the mountain uses as much energy as driving one mile. During the ascend/descend they drive 500 miles. The wind resistance for one mile flat and one mile on the mountain should be comparable, so their 95% efficiency number must be subtracting that (and rolling resistance) out.
      • lfsh 2y ago
        You assume the battery conditions stay the same. But what if the battery heats up a lot during a climb and is still hot while going down? It is know batteries charge slow when they are hot.
  • deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  • sashank_1509 2y ago
    So I lose around 20% when going uphill to office. and I lose 10% when going downhill back home, clearly downhill is much better, but it’s not like I get back charge
• rockinghigh 2y ago
  Getting only 30% of the advertised range would be very unlikely unless you always drive uphill and in the cold. I've had a Model 3 and a Model Y, and would get at least 80-85% of the advertised range in average California weather.
  • bdangubic 2y ago
    I have 2014 Tesla S and 80-85% is just about right
  • seanmcdirmid 2y ago
    If they were traveling uphill to work you’d think they would gain some of that back coming back downhill. But I’m guessing it might be very hilly terrain where the roads are not level at all. The crazier thing is that their commute is 60+ miles one way (based on saying they are lucky they can charge at work).
    • wongarsu 2y ago
      I assume they leave work on a full battery after charging there for free, limiting the advantage of regen braking
    • searealist 2y ago
      [flagged]
    • foobar1962 2y ago
      > If they were traveling uphill to work you’d think they would gain some of that back coming back downhill It's uphill both ways.
  • darknavi 2y ago
    Looking at Tessie, my Model Y's lifetime average is 83% (289 Wh/mi at ~40,000 miles) and my Model 3's average is also 83% (280 Wh/mi at ~53,000 miles). Most of my driving is in the Washington/PNW, so a bit more hilly and colder than California.
  • numpad0 2y ago
• jbm 2y ago
  I have a model 3 from 2019 that is not quite as extreme, but gets similar issues. It should have 350 km of range. I see some people posting insane wh/km numbers, but I think I'm doing a pretty decent job (130-140 wh/km or ~225.31 wh/mile average outside of the winter); I barely get 270-280km, max. The issue isn't the driving range, but rather the unexplained loss of range. I'm talking about losses of 7.5% if I leave it parked in front of my house for an hour or two. I have photos too; if you reach out to Tesla, they curtly tell me the battery is fine. A vague "you need to keep your car plugged in" is frankly insane, what if I went on a 100km trip, left my car outside for an hour or two, and came back without enough range to go home? I've heard people say to disable the app on my phone, but that frankly seems like a Tesla problem, not a "me" problem. I still enjoy driving the car. I just wouldn't trust it for long range driving. I probably will buy Hyundai or BYD (if Canada lets them in) next time.
  • tredre3 2y ago
    Idle draw is a pretty common complaint for Teslas.
    • jbm 2y ago
      Yes, I think that's a definite issue for the generation of Model 3 that I have. I had to disable sentry because it was taking a significant chunk too (and I didn't even bother putting a disk inside).
      • devanl 2y ago
        While the idle draw is relatively high on Teslas compared to other EVs (even without sentry mode enabled), 7.5% is quite high. I track my stats with Teslamate and it estimates typical SoC loss of 1% over a day. What I have seen is that the BMS may update its SoC estimate after driving, and I've seen it adjust the estimated SoC up or down by as much as 5% in some cases. I get that from a planning perspective, it still stinks to have range than you thought you did an hour ago, but it's not all that different from the variation you might get with an analog dial on the gas tank, just that it's much easier to notice and track when it's digital and showed as a precise number.
• colordrops 2y ago
  Do gas cars get advertised mileage on steep hills? I don't believe so.
  • onemoresoop 2y ago
    You’re right but the difference isn’t as big as from the advertised 270 to 90-120. Also electric cars suffer from battery degradation which hampers the range quite a bit.
    • Panzer04 2y ago
      Are you sure about that? If you go only uphill in a gas car you will use a lot more fuel per km, just like an EV.
    • bdcravens 2y ago
      I don't think batteries degrade that much that fast. I would imagine it's akin to gas cars, where you lose about 10% or so in efficiency after you put on a lot of miles, like 100k. (My EV6 seems to be as efficient as when I bought it in 2022, but my driving style is all over the place, so it's hard to measure from one charge to the next if I'm feeling a bit spirited in my driving that day)
  • jeroenhd 2y ago
    Electric cars being much, much heavier than petrol cars do have a disadvantage going uphill. I'd still reckon that range estimates should ignore these extreme edge cases, though.
    • infecto 2y ago
      > Electric cars being much, much heavier than petrol cars This is one of those comments that continues to come up but has never added up. Certainly if you are comparing a Tesla compared to a compact or a Euro version of a compact. Absolutely there is a weight difference. The problem is if you did a like for like comparison..a Model Y is the same Weight as an X3. A Model 3 is a couple hundred pounds heavier than a Toyota Camry.
• neogodless 2y ago
  Are you going from 100% battery down to like 10%? My Polestar 2 range is not great in the cold and on hills, but the real gotcha is charging it to 80% and then plugging in around 30%. Using about 42 kW / 100 U.S. mile that means 50% of a roughly 75 kW battery only gives me 89 miles between charges. (But some of that is self imposed.) Still 180 mile range would be well under the advertised 260. Now if I use 100% and I get closer to 35 kW / 100 miles in the summer, the range is about 215 miles. Curious how much better it'll be in the summer though.
• corey_moncure 2y ago
  Take a picture of your energy screen and post it.
• jvanderbot 2y ago
  Slightly more nuanced: the "range"/battery level listed constantly is always bunk. When I enter a destination the final battery level is very accurate. This counts in cold weather or hot, with terrain effects or not. Sometimes even weather. It's quite good and I imagine there's some data driven process from past performance of the vehicle. So, if you plan to test drive a Tesla, evaluate its range this way. If you're curious for me the listed range is often around 300, and the effective drive range tends to be around 250 200, seldom less except in cold weather.
  • hedora 2y ago
    Counterpoint: Our BMW i3 gets EPA range on my round trip commute in the summer. It starts at the top of a mountain with a “100%” (actually 90% according to reverse engineering) battery (a tesla couldn’t regen in that situation, the bmw can). It can be as low as 80% of EPA range with the heat pump cranked up in low 30F’s weather. I’ve carefully measured two other EVs (not Tesla) on that route. One gets 110% of EPA, but can’t regen at 100% (so, it is similar to the BMW model without the hard 90% charge cap). The other gets EPA in the winter and does not have a heat pump. FWIW, Tesla drivers that live up here complain about bogus range estimates. I agree with the “type in destination and let the computer estimate” approach. That works well on all three cars, despite the mountains.
    • SpaceNoodled 2y ago
      Which EVs?
    • masklinn 2y ago
      > It starts at the top of a mountain with a “100%” (actually 90% according to reverse engineering) battery (a tesla couldn’t regen in that situation, the bmw can). Ah so BMW advertises (and charges to I assume?) 10% less capacity than actual, which both reduces wear and allows regen even on full battery? That's actually pretty cool. They're effectively sacrificing marketing for user experience.
      • viraptor 2y ago
• misiti3780 2y ago
  i have a model s 2022 and get 250 miles going 80 miles/hour.
• starspangled 2y ago
  > I have a model 3 (from 2023), that is rated 270 miles. I can get at max 120 miles, more like 90 miles from it. My drive to work involves going steeply uphill, not very cold. The only reason I don’t care is I have free office charging. If I didn’t I would be pissed by the range I observe. Were you mislead about or unaware of the range claims when you bought the car? I don't own an EV or have any real interest in them, but I know the range is highly dependent on driving conditions and automobile condition (often to a much greater degree than ICE vehicles) and I'd assumed that was made pretty clear in advertising materials and sales pitch. I could easily see unscrupulous companies and salesmen or just unaware 2nd hand buyers being caught out by the range claims though.
  • AtlasBarfed 2y ago
    The 270 actually 120 is a bit dramatic, but it does highlight a lot of the fundamental problems with range in EVs, especially the "200 miles is enough" crowd. 1) for battery preservation, you generally do not fully charge every night. So, lose 10% from that 2) battery degradation, things are better, but 10% max loss is common I would say 3) people drive faster than testing. Knock off about 10% for that 4) cold? hot? AC? heat? another 10% off 5) there isn't a charger around every corner, so you have to plan ahead and to be safe get a charger when you're at like ... 10% left Holy crap, 50% loss of range! And if you are in a scenario where you are recharging on the road, you are doing the "80% charge" which really is a loss of 10-20% more effective range. Ok, the poster isn't being that dramatic. This is why for non-city non-commuter scenarios, especially in midwest/rural areas, a PHEV with a 50 mile all-electric range would simnply be a far better car, for far less battery supply. Daily city driving rarely exceeds 50%, the engine can do range extension on the rare long distance trips, and it can also help with heat/cooling that heat pumps can't help with. PHEV drivetrains will still have regen, peppy acceleration, and good torque if done correctly. I'm hoping the Dodge Ramcharger does really well. 100 miles almost in all-electric, and an engine to recharge it for really long ranges and towing capacity. A truly peer range EV will probably need another 50% density, so
    • YZF 2y ago
      I've done road trips on my SR+ model 3 and it hasn't been a big problem. What is a problem is if you're going somewhere that has no chargers (or no superchargers). If you have a big trip then you can charge to 100% if you need to. Yes, if you go faster you'll use more energy per km. If you're pushing it then you're going to want to slow down a little. In my "daily" driving I use about 20%-30% of capacity max and I have a pretty long commute. I tend to keep my battery around 50% most of the time and not go too low or too high. There are certainly trips to remote places that I can't do with my EV and I have made some adjustments to trip plans to accommodate but all in all it's been a non-issue. Btw, if we're running down a list of issues then phantom drain is another one. I do worry about energy loss when camping e.g. I've had a situation where I got to the campground with ~20% and the next day in the cold was something like ~10% and barely made it to the charger.
• acchow 2y ago
  If the gradient is steep enough then you would not be recouping most of the energy going back downhill because your brakes will be burning off the energy. Uphill and downhills is a combination where the estimated range might be thrown off entirely, depending on situation. Regardless, even with a small gradient, the kinetic energy can never need 100% converted back into stored energy into the battery. There will always be a loss.
  • YZF 2y ago
    It'd have to be really steep. Regenerative braking on a model 3 is pretty aggressive. You don't even use the brakes in normal driving. If you're starting off too cold that can be an issue though. I've driven in big mountains (Canada, BC) and while you're definitely using a lot more power on your way up you make up for it on the other side. I have worried about not making it to the top though (but it worked out fine for my trips).
    • jajko 2y ago
      Had a recent talk with a colleague who owns one of earlier model S on exactly this. He often goes skiing up to Verbier in the Swiss alps, so similar situation and cold. He definitely burns through the battery much quicker in mountains, and going down it recoups just a small fraction of energy spent going up. Also cold messes up the numbers pretty significantly, I think he mentioned 10-15% of battery consumed standing still each full day in freezing temperatures (he told me battery keeps itself warm). Pushing up 1,5 tonnes (or 2+ in tesla's case) of our ICE car can burn up any fuel very fast in relatively short distance. I've estimated that our current petrol and previous (otherwise very efficient) diesel burn around 1/4 to 1/3 of the fuel tank on each 1000m of altitude gained.
      • magicalhippo 2y ago
        It's quite easy to see this in an EV, as measuring power is quite trivial. Cruising along on a level highway at around 60 MPH, my EV uses like 2-3% the available power. Going up a incline and you're suddenly way above 40%. This should come as no surprise to those who have ridden a bicycle outside of Holland.
• peterisza 2y ago
  Sorry, but this is hard to believe unless your specific Model 3 has a problem. I have a Model Y, several friends have Teslas, one uses his Model 3 for Uber. Everyone can get the expected range when doing 90 km/h in the summer, and at least half of the range on the highway in the winter, but usually more than that. Maybe your consumption is that much when going steeply uphill, but then you will have to come back down and your consumption will be negative as it will recharge your battery.
  • Justta 2y ago
    One reason for Tesla's success it shows accurate range.
• throwaway2037 2y ago
  > Also Tesla servicing is famously bad I don't own a Tesla, let alone a car. What is "servicing" for a car? You go to the dealer when something is wrong/broken? Or do you call Tesla? Also, can you give a specific example of how Tesla servicing is "famously bad"? (I'm not doubting, but it will help me to better understand your comment.)
  • sebasvisser 2y ago
    Yes
  • LeoPanthera 2y ago
    I sold my Tesla after 4 years, because I refused to own it out of warranty. No longer being associated with Musk is a bonus. During the 4 years, it needed servicing (for actual faults, not for maintenance) 13 times. 4 of those times were "Car is dead" and it had to be towed. To book service, you have to use the app. There's no phone number. You pick a date which is usually at least a week in advance, type in what's wrong, maybe attach a photo. First, you'll get a reply in app's "chat" feature that your problem is actually normal, or it's somehow your fault, and it's not something they can fix. After you've convinced them it's a real problem, your appointment comes around, and you take it into your service center, and wait about 30 minutes for someone to get around to seeing you. They repeat the previous message that it's your fault, or normal, etc. etc. When they finally take it, there's zero feedback as to what's going on. In theory, you should get a loaner car while they repair, but they are usually "out". 3-14 days later, if you are lucky, your car is ready for pickup. No-one will be there to help you collect it, you just have to find it in the parking lot. There's about a 50/50 chance of your problem being fixed, and 100% chance that they've added a couple of new ones. Your car will be filthy, inside and out, and need to be cleaned. They also offer "mobile service" which is basically the same except they are rude to you in your driveway instead of at the service center. Worst experience of any car. By far. Will never buy another one.
    • ozim 2y ago
      To be fair i don’t think there is a business where I can make an appointment in the same week. I have ICE and getting basic oil change must be week in advance even when I call, I never get “we can book you tomorrow”. Heck gettin haircut in my area they have calendars blocked so you have to plan with a week in advance. Super annoying as I have a simple cut and most of time it can be done in 15mins. Ok washing down cut hair is useful so maybe 18mins. But I get frustrated I cannot just walk in, hotels, restaurants, hairdressers. At lest ordering food online is usually an hour so no need to wait a week
• 1oooqooq 2y ago
  good thing you live for work and will never take a vacation.