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First of all I think this article was put together quite well, it was succinct had a great flow and was very easy to follow. The data was laid out to support th

First of all I think this article was put together quite well, it was succinct had a great flow and was very easy to follow. The data was laid out to support the case; overall it was great to read. Understanding a problem requires a holistic view of the larger system. An egg producer may say prices are higher Because supply is lower due to culling. Part of that statement is true. The author then zooms out to better understand the larger system. The truth of a matter deviates significantly from one party’s assertions. it’s scary to me that people lack the skills, the desire or incentives to understand and objectively seek understanding of what’s happening around us especially in highly charged US political landscape. This isn’t like pure scientific pursuit of knowledge but a more practical day to day ability to question, understand and gather new information with the purpose of developing an objective understanding of the world.

bsder 2y ago
> Understanding a problem requires a holistic view of the larger system. It does, but the result is extremely uncomfortable. And the solving it will require actions that are even more uncomfortable. You have to come to grips with the fact that there are monopolies at every single level. There is no inventory anywhere except bottom. There is no over capacity at any level. Consequently, supply and demand simply do not work. There is no "excess supply" to use to make extra profit by eating the extra demand. There is no upstart supplier who can absorb the extra demand. The big suppliers can ratchet up prices with zero consequences. What are you gonna do about it? > it’s scary to me that people lack the skills, the desire or incentives to understand and objectively seek understanding of what’s happening around us especially in highly charged US political landscape. They don't lack the skills. They have chosen to treat politics like sportsball rather than something to actively think about.
- Marsymars 2y ago
  > What are you gonna do about it? Substitute tofu?
  - Centigonal 2y ago
    Even at $6.50/dozen, eggs are cheaper than tofu, which is $3 for 14 oz where I'm at.
    - absolutelastone 2y ago
      You could make it your self for the cost of soybeans basically. It's a cheap food sold as a gourmet item because it's rare. Like a lot of other fermented foods.
      - throwaway2037 2y ago
        > It's a cheap food sold as a gourmet item because it's rare. This statement is _entirely_ dependent upon where you live. If you have lots of East/SouthEast Asian immigrants in your community, it will be a regular commodity in any supermarket -- "ethnic" or not. Lots of readers here live in the Bay Area. A regular block of 300/400g fresh tofu is probably cheap as chips in their local supermarket. > Like a lot of _other_ fermented foods. Are you implying that tofu is a fermented food? It is not. (FYI: In Chinese food culture, there is something called fermented tofu [and even stinky tofu], but that is different than non-fermented tofu.)
        absolutelastone 2y ago
        I meant "cheap" because it is easy to make from scratch. https://www.google.com/search?q=how+do+I++make+tofu+from+scratch https://www.google.com/search?q=how+do+I++make+tofu+from+scr... As for "other fermented foods" your final sentence admits it works as used in my post.
    - Marsymars 2y ago
      FWIW, Costco or low-cost Asian grocers are less than half that price for tofu. And in terms of protein, a dozen eggs is pretty close to the same amount of protein as 14oz of firm tofu... so my cost for tofu protein is like a quarter of my cost for egg protein. (Organic in either case, fwiw.)
    - 2y ago
- gerdesj 2y ago
  "The big suppliers can ratchet up prices with zero consequences. What are you gonna do about it?" If I was that bothered about eggs, I'd simply grow my own. Americans on average have way more space to mess around in than say most Europeans - the place is fucking huge. Chickens are very easy to "grow your own". I'm not an American and clearly you have managed to get your collective knickers in a twist over a non issue, which almost certainly means that there is a bigger picture and a rather more important issue that really needs fixing. Please stop fiddling whilst Rome burns.
  - bdangubic 2y ago
    you cannot just wake up and decide to grow your own, it is regulated heavily :)
    - jay_kyburz 2y ago
      Here are my local laws, not too crazy. https://www.legislation.act.gov.au/View/di/2010-89/current/html/2010-89.html https://www.legislation.act.gov.au/View/di/2010-89/current/h...
      - bdangubic 2y ago
        sorry mate - I was referring to the USA without saying so :)
  - genewitch 2y ago
    I have my own and I don't even like eggs that much. I do however like their noises, and for pest control, so I keep getting new birds. $33 for 6 birds, last month. They're not fully feathered yet.
    - Dban1 2y ago
      noise control?
      - 2y ago
- sras-me 2y ago
  >"The big suppliers can ratchet up prices with zero consequences. What are you gonna do about it?" I think one (uncomfortable) solution is this. Consumers should budget their expenses. So when the egg prices increase, they should consume less to maintain their budget for eggs, for example, a month. This will mean that when the companies increases prices, more of their stock will remain unsold, increasing their expenses stocking them to go up. This could also cause disruptions on their supply chain. This should force them to reduce prices.
  - bdangubic 2y ago
    you said “budget” in the context of America. 93.98% of americans are not finacially literate enough to budget. this is by design…
    - SoftTalker 2y ago
      It doesn't have to be so formal, and for most people it's more like "wow eggs have gotten expensive, I'll skip buying them this week" that is what I do, same with beef and anything else that just seems like it costs too much. Or I'll shop around, there are people selling eggs from their home-kept chickens at the side of the road for less than supermarket prices (I realize that doesn't scale, at least not quickly).
      - bdangubic 2y ago
        you are the 6.02% :) I do the same for EVERYTHING. my wife and I make a decent living but we drew lines when the prices started going up. we can afford it, not just eggs but also other things that have been price gouged in the last couple of years. issue is of course there are not enough of us to make a difference
        s1artibartfast 2y ago
        There is no economic system that can accommodate a population that refuses to respond to prices. That said, I think your numbers are overly pessimistic. The critical part to remember is that people dont have to do the math and do the budgetary calculus. If they cant afford the eggs, they cant buy them.
- teeray 2y ago
  > They have chosen to treat politics like sportsball rather than something to actively think about. More like neo-religion.
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  What am I gonna do about it? I'm going to start buying from the small farm half a mile from me that has eggs in an honor box at the end of their driveway. There is no inventory anywhere except bottom? Fine. I'll go to the bottom. > They have chosen to treat politics like sportsball rather than something to actively think about. Not going to argue about that one...
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    Nailed it. To disinter-mediate the monopoly vertical, you must source locally, and work together to ensure that local supply remains operational. You "step out" of the capture.
- quacksilver 2y ago
  >What are you gonna do about it? There are some other options: Substitute blood - https://nordicfoodlab.wordpress.com/2014/01/07/2013-9-blood-and-egg/ https://nordicfoodlab.wordpress.com/2014/01/07/2013-9-blood-... - I am not sure why people don't do this but maybe they are squeamish. Food grade blood is cheap and readily available from slaughterhouses and butchers. Buy some chickens
  - titanomachy 2y ago
    > I am not sure why people don't do this I don't substituting blood for eggs is a widely-known option. I'd never heard of it before now, and I have a somewhat above-average amateur interest in cooking and food science.
chii 2y ago
> This isn’t like pure scientific pursuit of knowledge but a more practical day to day ability to question, understand and gather new information with the purpose of developing an objective understanding of the world. you've just described scientific persuit. Just because the object of said persuit pertains to everyday life, doesn't mean it isn't scientific. The goal of science is to understand truth, and discern it from falsehoods (which might appear true intuitively). Science isn't about researching niche, or cutting edge things. It's about the method, rigor and ability to change one's mind based on evidence regardless of priors.
- bookaway 2y ago
  Yes, and unfortunately the “desire” for scientific research of everyday life is hard to maintain because frankly in our current times it has dawned on many that scientific research is unable, by itself, to prevent or limit actions taken that fly in the face of the said research. So some domain experts have realized that upping their social media game is a better investment than broadening their scientific research efforts, because you’ve already lost if you are unable to derail a delusional narrative in real time. It’s the era of yellow journalism 2.0.
42772827 2y ago
> Understanding a problem requires a holistic view of the larger system. In my experience, people don’t care about systems, they care about outcomes. The world is driven by people who care about outcomes and held together by people who understand systems.

bsder 2y ago

> Understanding a problem requires a holistic view of the larger system. It does, but the result is extremely uncomfortable. And the solving it will require actions that are even more uncomfortable. You have to come to grips with the fact that there are monopolies at every single level. There is no inventory anywhere except bottom. There is no over capacity at any level. Consequently, supply and demand simply do not work. There is no "excess supply" to use to make extra profit by eating the extra demand. There is no upstart supplier who can absorb the extra demand. The big suppliers can ratchet up prices with zero consequences. What are you gonna do about it? > it’s scary to me that people lack the skills, the desire or incentives to understand and objectively seek understanding of what’s happening around us especially in highly charged US political landscape. They don't lack the skills. They have chosen to treat politics like sportsball rather than something to actively think about.

Marsymars 2y ago
> What are you gonna do about it? Substitute tofu?
- Centigonal 2y ago
  Even at $6.50/dozen, eggs are cheaper than tofu, which is $3 for 14 oz where I'm at.
  - absolutelastone 2y ago
    You could make it your self for the cost of soybeans basically. It's a cheap food sold as a gourmet item because it's rare. Like a lot of other fermented foods.
    - throwaway2037 2y ago
      > It's a cheap food sold as a gourmet item because it's rare. This statement is _entirely_ dependent upon where you live. If you have lots of East/SouthEast Asian immigrants in your community, it will be a regular commodity in any supermarket -- "ethnic" or not. Lots of readers here live in the Bay Area. A regular block of 300/400g fresh tofu is probably cheap as chips in their local supermarket. > Like a lot of _other_ fermented foods. Are you implying that tofu is a fermented food? It is not. (FYI: In Chinese food culture, there is something called fermented tofu [and even stinky tofu], but that is different than non-fermented tofu.)
      - absolutelastone 2y ago
        I meant "cheap" because it is easy to make from scratch. https://www.google.com/search?q=how+do+I++make+tofu+from+scratch https://www.google.com/search?q=how+do+I++make+tofu+from+scr... As for "other fermented foods" your final sentence admits it works as used in my post.
  - Marsymars 2y ago
    FWIW, Costco or low-cost Asian grocers are less than half that price for tofu. And in terms of protein, a dozen eggs is pretty close to the same amount of protein as 14oz of firm tofu... so my cost for tofu protein is like a quarter of my cost for egg protein. (Organic in either case, fwiw.)
  - 2y ago
gerdesj 2y ago
"The big suppliers can ratchet up prices with zero consequences. What are you gonna do about it?" If I was that bothered about eggs, I'd simply grow my own. Americans on average have way more space to mess around in than say most Europeans - the place is fucking huge. Chickens are very easy to "grow your own". I'm not an American and clearly you have managed to get your collective knickers in a twist over a non issue, which almost certainly means that there is a bigger picture and a rather more important issue that really needs fixing. Please stop fiddling whilst Rome burns.
- bdangubic 2y ago
  you cannot just wake up and decide to grow your own, it is regulated heavily :)
  - jay_kyburz 2y ago
    Here are my local laws, not too crazy. https://www.legislation.act.gov.au/View/di/2010-89/current/html/2010-89.html https://www.legislation.act.gov.au/View/di/2010-89/current/h...
    - bdangubic 2y ago
      sorry mate - I was referring to the USA without saying so :)
- genewitch 2y ago
  I have my own and I don't even like eggs that much. I do however like their noises, and for pest control, so I keep getting new birds. $33 for 6 birds, last month. They're not fully feathered yet.
  - Dban1 2y ago
    noise control?
    - 2y ago
sras-me 2y ago
>"The big suppliers can ratchet up prices with zero consequences. What are you gonna do about it?" I think one (uncomfortable) solution is this. Consumers should budget their expenses. So when the egg prices increase, they should consume less to maintain their budget for eggs, for example, a month. This will mean that when the companies increases prices, more of their stock will remain unsold, increasing their expenses stocking them to go up. This could also cause disruptions on their supply chain. This should force them to reduce prices.
- bdangubic 2y ago
  you said “budget” in the context of America. 93.98% of americans are not finacially literate enough to budget. this is by design…
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    It doesn't have to be so formal, and for most people it's more like "wow eggs have gotten expensive, I'll skip buying them this week" that is what I do, same with beef and anything else that just seems like it costs too much. Or I'll shop around, there are people selling eggs from their home-kept chickens at the side of the road for less than supermarket prices (I realize that doesn't scale, at least not quickly).
    - bdangubic 2y ago
      you are the 6.02% :) I do the same for EVERYTHING. my wife and I make a decent living but we drew lines when the prices started going up. we can afford it, not just eggs but also other things that have been price gouged in the last couple of years. issue is of course there are not enough of us to make a difference
      - s1artibartfast 2y ago
        There is no economic system that can accommodate a population that refuses to respond to prices. That said, I think your numbers are overly pessimistic. The critical part to remember is that people dont have to do the math and do the budgetary calculus. If they cant afford the eggs, they cant buy them.
teeray 2y ago
> They have chosen to treat politics like sportsball rather than something to actively think about. More like neo-religion.
AnimalMuppet 2y ago
What am I gonna do about it? I'm going to start buying from the small farm half a mile from me that has eggs in an honor box at the end of their driveway. There is no inventory anywhere except bottom? Fine. I'll go to the bottom. > They have chosen to treat politics like sportsball rather than something to actively think about. Not going to argue about that one...
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  Nailed it. To disinter-mediate the monopoly vertical, you must source locally, and work together to ensure that local supply remains operational. You "step out" of the capture.
quacksilver 2y ago
>What are you gonna do about it? There are some other options: Substitute blood - https://nordicfoodlab.wordpress.com/2014/01/07/2013-9-blood-and-egg/ https://nordicfoodlab.wordpress.com/2014/01/07/2013-9-blood-... - I am not sure why people don't do this but maybe they are squeamish. Food grade blood is cheap and readily available from slaughterhouses and butchers. Buy some chickens
- titanomachy 2y ago
  > I am not sure why people don't do this I don't substituting blood for eggs is a widely-known option. I'd never heard of it before now, and I have a somewhat above-average amateur interest in cooking and food science.

chii 2y ago

> This isn’t like pure scientific pursuit of knowledge but a more practical day to day ability to question, understand and gather new information with the purpose of developing an objective understanding of the world. you've just described scientific persuit. Just because the object of said persuit pertains to everyday life, doesn't mean it isn't scientific. The goal of science is to understand truth, and discern it from falsehoods (which might appear true intuitively). Science isn't about researching niche, or cutting edge things. It's about the method, rigor and ability to change one's mind based on evidence regardless of priors.

bookaway 2y ago
Yes, and unfortunately the “desire” for scientific research of everyday life is hard to maintain because frankly in our current times it has dawned on many that scientific research is unable, by itself, to prevent or limit actions taken that fly in the face of the said research. So some domain experts have realized that upping their social media game is a better investment than broadening their scientific research efforts, because you’ve already lost if you are unable to derail a delusional narrative in real time. It’s the era of yellow journalism 2.0.

42772827 2y ago

> Understanding a problem requires a holistic view of the larger system. In my experience, people don’t care about systems, they care about outcomes. The world is driven by people who care about outcomes and held together by people who understand systems.