7 ms·

To be fair to China, even they are "appalled" by what Trump is doing to cause chaos with Europe and to abandon Ukraine by holding talks about Ukraine without Uk

To be fair to China, even they are "appalled" by what Trump is doing to cause chaos with Europe and to abandon Ukraine by holding talks about Ukraine without Ukraine: https://news.liga.net/en/politics/news/china-appalled-by-trumps-policy-opposes-talks-without-ukraine https://news.liga.net/en/politics/news/china-appalled-by-tru...

9283409232 2y ago
China isn't actually appalled but they are trying to slip into America's spot in the world and they will likely do so successfully.
- ferguess_k 2y ago
  It almost looks like China doesn't want but US somehow is dragging it towards that point. China has been mostly concerned about economic links with other countries and it has few oversea bases comparing to any of the other 4 big dogs. It doesn't have the mindset to be a region police, let alone a world one.
  - 9283409232 2y ago
    China doesn't want to be the world police. It just wants the economic benefits of being the US without the security liabilities.
    - ferguess_k 2y ago
      Yup that's the idea. It's not going to run away from that police liability very soon. Probably in 5-10 years I think. Actually already happening right now in Myanmar.
    - bilbo0s 2y ago
      Meh. Let's all be honest here. At the end of the day, what China wants is for everyone to shut the F up and buy a big screen TV. Preferably on credit. Anything that moves the world towards that goal will receive China's tacit support. Trump's moves are seen to move the world away from that goal, so we're seeing some signs of discomfort coming from China. But believe me, it ain't because they're concerned about Ukraine or freedom or "ideals". Or even because they do or do not want to be world police. We can't think about their goals in Western terms because the fundamentals of the thinking are just completely different.
      - Peanuts99 2y ago
        For many Europeans that's a far easier thing to comprehend and support than what the US has done in the last few months.
      - ferguess_k 2y ago
        Yup I do believe most of the Chinese elites just want that. The thing is, most of the Chinese elites don't really have a deep belief in anything, so getting the current status going is the best, most convenient thing for them.
  - acdha 2y ago
    I view it as China valuing stability. They want to control their interests, but countries like Russia or the post-Trump U.S. make long-term planning hard because you can’t assume rational decisions by the other major players.
- 4ndrewl 2y ago
  They say they're appalled so as to be able to take up opportunities left by the fleeing Americans in Europe.
  - throwaway48476 2y ago
    China doesn't care about Ukraine but they care about continuing to sell to Europe a lot.
- ashoeafoot 2y ago
  You misunderstood them. They want to slip into the power vacuum the us implosion generated, but they want to establish a world order similar to the colonial British Empire . Its in all their speaches and documents , if you care to read and listen. They are quite open about it ,like putin.
  - skinnymuch 2y ago
    You are being dishonest and not saying the truth. I follow Xi.
  - h4ck_th3_pl4n3t 2y ago
    Isn't that the logical conclusion of a country that has a different leading style? China plans ahead in decades. US plans ahead less than 12 hours, and depending on the moodswings in the Oval Office are pretty much the definition of unreliable right now. There was a fascinating quote that some friends around Singapore told me once: "When China comes, they build roads and infrastructure. When US comes, they destroy, enforce and leave emptiness" And, given what happened in Iraq, Afghanistan, Africa and other shitshows I tend to agree. China learned that cultural influence is playing the long game, and they're very successful with it.
    - 9283409232 2y ago
      Africa has a similar saying about the UK. When the Chinese come we get a hospital, when the UK comes we get a lecture.
  - powerapple 2y ago
    reference please. As a Chinese I would love to learn about it.
- tim333 2y ago
  China borders Russia. If the Russians invaded some Chinese territory and then Russia and the US held talks to decide how much to take not involving China in the talks, I think they would be pissed off. It's kind of the principle of the thing.
xeckr 2y ago
Ah yes, the only country in the world whose array of official foreign policies includes a "no limits partnership" with russia. The statement of the named Chinese official is either a psyop, or he is, in the parlance of intelligence agencies, "going native". I'm leaning towards the former hypothesis.
- KaiserPro 2y ago
  > The statement of the named Chinese official is either a psyop Or more likley China wants to sell to people, and thats hard if they are in a trade war, and spending money on a crash re-militarisation drive. It also serves China well to be on the side of the EU as they can mop up some of the trade thats being destroyed by the USA.
- intended 2y ago
  In a recent report on info ops conducted on American targets, the Russian goal was to spread divisiveness. The Chinese goal was to create assets that result in a positive impression of China. As of February, China’s actions with working with Europe and standing against America cemented its position as world power focused on stability. Their decision to find a way to work with India, is yet another sign of their decision making. In sharp contrast, America is dismantling itself in flight.
  - xeckr 2y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_warfares https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_warfares
genewitch 2y ago
Ukraine was invited. Stop lying.
- genewitch 2y ago
  > Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said his country would not accept any outcome from the talks since Kyiv didn’t take part, and he postponed his own trip to the kingdom scheduled for Wednesday. every article, when directly quoting, uses weasel words like this. "Ukraine" decided they didn't want to participate because Europe wasn't involved, or Ukraine "didn't get a paper invitation". even though Zelenskyy was supposed to be in country at the time, he decided not to. I will source the actual facts later, but keep downvoting stuff you don't like. Downvote this comment too, here, i'll help: Russia was promised by the US that NATO would not expand. by someone named Baker. Stuff shifted, but under no circumstances was russia going to let Ukraine "join NATO". When Ukraine started saying they were in talks to join NATO and get their own nukes, russia perked up and started fucking with the border. Russia warned Ukraine about the murders occuring in "ethnically" russian "speaking" areas of ukraine, near the border. I bet you can name them. Russia waited eight years to actually respond to this injustice, and it was after Ukraine started talking about joining NATO. Again. So if you are pragmatic, and you don't want an all out war in europe, you withdraw the US support for NATO. Simple as. Now you don't get to threaten russia with US forces anymore. The US doesn't want to fight Russia, and certainly not for a leader that "loses" hundreds of billions of dollars. "whoops, we can't find half of it" is bad enough when it's an amazon order, it's a lot different when you're talking about sending nearly 400,000,000,000.00 USD to ... Ukraine. The thing that gets me though, is does anyone really believe this is all russia is capable of? moving a front line 10 meters, or a kilometer? Europe needs to stop prepping for a war, because Europe is the most war-hungry population on the planet, historically. They can't help themselves. The rest of the world is about to find out what it's like to not have the US backing up your stupid decisions. We, as taxpayers, are tired of paying for the EU experiment, for sabre rattling from the UK and France and Germany. It boils down to the need to "read between the lines" and not just accept any article put forth in the last 4 years. there is a lot more nuance than "orange man bad" and "Comedian War Hero", ok?
  - 2y ago

9283409232 2y ago

China isn't actually appalled but they are trying to slip into America's spot in the world and they will likely do so successfully.

ferguess_k 2y ago
It almost looks like China doesn't want but US somehow is dragging it towards that point. China has been mostly concerned about economic links with other countries and it has few oversea bases comparing to any of the other 4 big dogs. It doesn't have the mindset to be a region police, let alone a world one.
- 9283409232 2y ago
  China doesn't want to be the world police. It just wants the economic benefits of being the US without the security liabilities.
  - ferguess_k 2y ago
    Yup that's the idea. It's not going to run away from that police liability very soon. Probably in 5-10 years I think. Actually already happening right now in Myanmar.
  - bilbo0s 2y ago
    Meh. Let's all be honest here. At the end of the day, what China wants is for everyone to shut the F up and buy a big screen TV. Preferably on credit. Anything that moves the world towards that goal will receive China's tacit support. Trump's moves are seen to move the world away from that goal, so we're seeing some signs of discomfort coming from China. But believe me, it ain't because they're concerned about Ukraine or freedom or "ideals". Or even because they do or do not want to be world police. We can't think about their goals in Western terms because the fundamentals of the thinking are just completely different.
    - Peanuts99 2y ago
      For many Europeans that's a far easier thing to comprehend and support than what the US has done in the last few months.
    - ferguess_k 2y ago
      Yup I do believe most of the Chinese elites just want that. The thing is, most of the Chinese elites don't really have a deep belief in anything, so getting the current status going is the best, most convenient thing for them.
- acdha 2y ago
  I view it as China valuing stability. They want to control their interests, but countries like Russia or the post-Trump U.S. make long-term planning hard because you can’t assume rational decisions by the other major players.
4ndrewl 2y ago
They say they're appalled so as to be able to take up opportunities left by the fleeing Americans in Europe.
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  China doesn't care about Ukraine but they care about continuing to sell to Europe a lot.
ashoeafoot 2y ago
You misunderstood them. They want to slip into the power vacuum the us implosion generated, but they want to establish a world order similar to the colonial British Empire . Its in all their speaches and documents , if you care to read and listen. They are quite open about it ,like putin.
- skinnymuch 2y ago
  You are being dishonest and not saying the truth. I follow Xi.
- h4ck_th3_pl4n3t 2y ago
  Isn't that the logical conclusion of a country that has a different leading style? China plans ahead in decades. US plans ahead less than 12 hours, and depending on the moodswings in the Oval Office are pretty much the definition of unreliable right now. There was a fascinating quote that some friends around Singapore told me once: "When China comes, they build roads and infrastructure. When US comes, they destroy, enforce and leave emptiness" And, given what happened in Iraq, Afghanistan, Africa and other shitshows I tend to agree. China learned that cultural influence is playing the long game, and they're very successful with it.
  - 9283409232 2y ago
    Africa has a similar saying about the UK. When the Chinese come we get a hospital, when the UK comes we get a lecture.
- powerapple 2y ago
  reference please. As a Chinese I would love to learn about it.
tim333 2y ago
China borders Russia. If the Russians invaded some Chinese territory and then Russia and the US held talks to decide how much to take not involving China in the talks, I think they would be pissed off. It's kind of the principle of the thing.

xeckr 2y ago

Ah yes, the only country in the world whose array of official foreign policies includes a "no limits partnership" with russia. The statement of the named Chinese official is either a psyop, or he is, in the parlance of intelligence agencies, "going native". I'm leaning towards the former hypothesis.

KaiserPro 2y ago
> The statement of the named Chinese official is either a psyop Or more likley China wants to sell to people, and thats hard if they are in a trade war, and spending money on a crash re-militarisation drive. It also serves China well to be on the side of the EU as they can mop up some of the trade thats being destroyed by the USA.
intended 2y ago
In a recent report on info ops conducted on American targets, the Russian goal was to spread divisiveness. The Chinese goal was to create assets that result in a positive impression of China. As of February, China’s actions with working with Europe and standing against America cemented its position as world power focused on stability. Their decision to find a way to work with India, is yet another sign of their decision making. In sharp contrast, America is dismantling itself in flight.
- xeckr 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_warfares https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_warfares

genewitch 2y ago

Ukraine was invited. Stop lying.

genewitch 2y ago
> Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said his country would not accept any outcome from the talks since Kyiv didn’t take part, and he postponed his own trip to the kingdom scheduled for Wednesday. every article, when directly quoting, uses weasel words like this. "Ukraine" decided they didn't want to participate because Europe wasn't involved, or Ukraine "didn't get a paper invitation". even though Zelenskyy was supposed to be in country at the time, he decided not to. I will source the actual facts later, but keep downvoting stuff you don't like. Downvote this comment too, here, i'll help: Russia was promised by the US that NATO would not expand. by someone named Baker. Stuff shifted, but under no circumstances was russia going to let Ukraine "join NATO". When Ukraine started saying they were in talks to join NATO and get their own nukes, russia perked up and started fucking with the border. Russia warned Ukraine about the murders occuring in "ethnically" russian "speaking" areas of ukraine, near the border. I bet you can name them. Russia waited eight years to actually respond to this injustice, and it was after Ukraine started talking about joining NATO. Again. So if you are pragmatic, and you don't want an all out war in europe, you withdraw the US support for NATO. Simple as. Now you don't get to threaten russia with US forces anymore. The US doesn't want to fight Russia, and certainly not for a leader that "loses" hundreds of billions of dollars. "whoops, we can't find half of it" is bad enough when it's an amazon order, it's a lot different when you're talking about sending nearly 400,000,000,000.00 USD to ... Ukraine. The thing that gets me though, is does anyone really believe this is all russia is capable of? moving a front line 10 meters, or a kilometer? Europe needs to stop prepping for a war, because Europe is the most war-hungry population on the planet, historically. They can't help themselves. The rest of the world is about to find out what it's like to not have the US backing up your stupid decisions. We, as taxpayers, are tired of paying for the EU experiment, for sabre rattling from the UK and France and Germany. It boils down to the need to "read between the lines" and not just accept any article put forth in the last 4 years. there is a lot more nuance than "orange man bad" and "Comedian War Hero", ok?
- 2y ago