4 ms·

Build trust for a hundred years. Then flush it down the drain in two months.

by tananaev 2y ago

vagrantJin 2y ago
[flagged]
- mystified5016 2y ago
  > The US is an actual sovereign state, with democratic leaders, acting on behalf of their constituencies. At no point in history has this ever been less true.
  - goodluckchuck 2y ago
    What are you implying? We had an election. People voted. What am I missing?
    - eitland 2y ago
      Did you vote for alienating all your allies? Increase tariffs even more on allies than your supposed enemies? Massively increasing cost of living in US? Sending European and South Korean defense stocks through the roof while tanking US defense stocks? Eliminating free travel through Canada to Alaska? Becoming the laughing stock of every stand up show around the globe? Yes, I know you voted for Trump. Do you think you got what voted for?
      - OKRainbowKid 2y ago
        [flagged]
      - wqaatwt 2y ago
        > Do you think you got what voted for? They want whatever Trump tells them to want. Just look at how Zelensky was polling amongst Republicans before and after the “incident”. Specific policies are irrelevant, they’ll just pretend that they always supported all of the random shit Trump does from the very beginning (even though nobody knew that hose options ever existed).
      - goodluckchuck 2y ago
        Who are these allies you speak of? Mexico has been facilitating an invasion and I don’t really care about the drugs - people should have the right to do what they want - but that too has been killing too many Americans. Or Canada who has been tariffing our goods and then when invited to actually join the team… rebuffs our welcome with disdain?! Also, I’m not really a big fan of the US’s military-industrial complex. They should be put in check. The thing is you’re very confident in things you do not know. It’s much better to just not know. If you don’t understand, then maybe the other guy isn’t wrong… maybe you just don’t understand and that’s okay.
    - WA 2y ago
      Thing is, you can democratically vote for anti-democratic people/parties. Just because the process is democractic, doesn't mean that the end result will be democractic. We have the same discussion here in Germany with the right-wing party AfD.
- lucasyvas 2y ago
  This belief is flat out wrong and is completely oblivious to the current geopolitical landscape. US is likely to get sanctioned by its prior allies in the near future and you need to wake up.
  - vagrantJin 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - tgv 2y ago
      I think losing the European market will do a lot of harm to the US, especially their precious tech giants, plus they'll lose creditors. The $$$ won't be what it used to be, and once that falls... But the whole point of Musk and Thiel is for the USA to lose its power. You can't coerce large institutions, but you can do that with small ones, so they want decentralization, small zones. There they can buy power, and do whatever they please. For this, the federal USA has to be upended.
ascorbic 2y ago
Not even two weeks
- ukoki 2y ago
  https://hotdogeatingsurrendermonkeys.com/ https://hotdogeatingsurrendermonkeys.com/
ferguess_k 2y ago
That been said. Historically US got strong by screwing over its allies. For example to the UK during the second World War.
- tananaev 2y ago
  What specifically are you referring to during the WW2? I'm sure it wasn't always black and white, but I think in general the US and western Europe were fairly good allies. Personally I think the reason the US got strong, especially economically, is because of stability, rule of law, global trade and economy of scale due to large enough population. Not because of specific incidents of screwing someone.
  - callc 2y ago
    I view it as US got strong by being late to WWII. Then every country in Europe, Russia was in shambles from the war. Japan got its expansionist hopes crushed by two atomic bombs, US’ new “don’t fuck we me I’ve got a delete everything button”. Every other country was either recovering from being a colony, or not as far along industrially as US
    - enraged_camel 2y ago
      >> I view it as US got strong by being late to WWII. This is the wrong view. The US got strong because it was able to convert its considerable industrial might to wartime footing within a very short timespan (which was frankly an incredible undertaking), and also because its geographic isolation allowed it to focus almost fully on offense.
  - keybored 2y ago
    > Personally I think the reason the US got strong, especially economically, is because of stability, rule of law, global trade and economy of scale due to large enough population. Not because of specific incidents of screwing someone. (WWII^W) The US has had free reign to screw with dozens of countries since the end of WWII. And they did. But it wasn’t your[1] country so then it doesn’t count. Which is high school clique logic. [1] Except if you were a politically active left-wing organizer post-WWII. Then the US and government-backed groups in Europe could have screwed with you through Operation Gladio, for example in Italy.[2] [2] This is just an example. And I’m not terribly educated on the matter. I can’t learn about this by watching the tellie. So it takes more effort than the stupor that a slogan like 100 years of building trust hints at.
tenpies 2y ago
That's certainly one take, but I suspect historians will actually link the beginning of this trend to the European/Western reactions to Russia in February of 2022. It could be framed as "cancel culture overruled the courts". The second Putin became the "literally Hitler" of the moment well anything could be done - even things they didn't do when actual Hitler was around. This meant extra-judicial seizures including "preventive" seizures. No law was broken or sanction placed yet, but they're going to seize your assets now and figure out how to make it "legal" later on. Even the Swiss - neutral during WW2 - abandoned over two centuries of neutrality and went along with the EU in this. The message these countries sent was clear: if you ever oppose us, rule of law will not protect you.
Integrape 2y ago
The States will never financially recover from this.
devnullbrain 2y ago
Two months? You elected the same guy 8 years ago. Fool me once, etc.

Build trust for a hundred years. Then flush it down the drain in two months.

vagrantJin 2y ago

[flagged]

mystified5016 2y ago
> The US is an actual sovereign state, with democratic leaders, acting on behalf of their constituencies. At no point in history has this ever been less true.
- goodluckchuck 2y ago
  What are you implying? We had an election. People voted. What am I missing?
  - eitland 2y ago
    Did you vote for alienating all your allies? Increase tariffs even more on allies than your supposed enemies? Massively increasing cost of living in US? Sending European and South Korean defense stocks through the roof while tanking US defense stocks? Eliminating free travel through Canada to Alaska? Becoming the laughing stock of every stand up show around the globe? Yes, I know you voted for Trump. Do you think you got what voted for?
    - OKRainbowKid 2y ago
      [flagged]
    - wqaatwt 2y ago
      > Do you think you got what voted for? They want whatever Trump tells them to want. Just look at how Zelensky was polling amongst Republicans before and after the “incident”. Specific policies are irrelevant, they’ll just pretend that they always supported all of the random shit Trump does from the very beginning (even though nobody knew that hose options ever existed).
    - goodluckchuck 2y ago
      Who are these allies you speak of? Mexico has been facilitating an invasion and I don’t really care about the drugs - people should have the right to do what they want - but that too has been killing too many Americans. Or Canada who has been tariffing our goods and then when invited to actually join the team… rebuffs our welcome with disdain?! Also, I’m not really a big fan of the US’s military-industrial complex. They should be put in check. The thing is you’re very confident in things you do not know. It’s much better to just not know. If you don’t understand, then maybe the other guy isn’t wrong… maybe you just don’t understand and that’s okay.
  - WA 2y ago
    Thing is, you can democratically vote for anti-democratic people/parties. Just because the process is democractic, doesn't mean that the end result will be democractic. We have the same discussion here in Germany with the right-wing party AfD.
lucasyvas 2y ago
This belief is flat out wrong and is completely oblivious to the current geopolitical landscape. US is likely to get sanctioned by its prior allies in the near future and you need to wake up.
- vagrantJin 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - tgv 2y ago
    I think losing the European market will do a lot of harm to the US, especially their precious tech giants, plus they'll lose creditors. The $$$ won't be what it used to be, and once that falls... But the whole point of Musk and Thiel is for the USA to lose its power. You can't coerce large institutions, but you can do that with small ones, so they want decentralization, small zones. There they can buy power, and do whatever they please. For this, the federal USA has to be upended.

ascorbic 2y ago

Not even two weeks

ukoki 2y ago
https://hotdogeatingsurrendermonkeys.com/ https://hotdogeatingsurrendermonkeys.com/

ferguess_k 2y ago

That been said. Historically US got strong by screwing over its allies. For example to the UK during the second World War.

tananaev 2y ago
What specifically are you referring to during the WW2? I'm sure it wasn't always black and white, but I think in general the US and western Europe were fairly good allies. Personally I think the reason the US got strong, especially economically, is because of stability, rule of law, global trade and economy of scale due to large enough population. Not because of specific incidents of screwing someone.
- callc 2y ago
  I view it as US got strong by being late to WWII. Then every country in Europe, Russia was in shambles from the war. Japan got its expansionist hopes crushed by two atomic bombs, US’ new “don’t fuck we me I’ve got a delete everything button”. Every other country was either recovering from being a colony, or not as far along industrially as US
  - enraged_camel 2y ago
    >> I view it as US got strong by being late to WWII. This is the wrong view. The US got strong because it was able to convert its considerable industrial might to wartime footing within a very short timespan (which was frankly an incredible undertaking), and also because its geographic isolation allowed it to focus almost fully on offense.
- keybored 2y ago
  > Personally I think the reason the US got strong, especially economically, is because of stability, rule of law, global trade and economy of scale due to large enough population. Not because of specific incidents of screwing someone. (WWII^W) The US has had free reign to screw with dozens of countries since the end of WWII. And they did. But it wasn’t your[1] country so then it doesn’t count. Which is high school clique logic. [1] Except if you were a politically active left-wing organizer post-WWII. Then the US and government-backed groups in Europe could have screwed with you through Operation Gladio, for example in Italy.[2] [2] This is just an example. And I’m not terribly educated on the matter. I can’t learn about this by watching the tellie. So it takes more effort than the stupor that a slogan like 100 years of building trust hints at.

tenpies 2y ago

That's certainly one take, but I suspect historians will actually link the beginning of this trend to the European/Western reactions to Russia in February of 2022. It could be framed as "cancel culture overruled the courts". The second Putin became the "literally Hitler" of the moment well anything could be done - even things they didn't do when actual Hitler was around. This meant extra-judicial seizures including "preventive" seizures. No law was broken or sanction placed yet, but they're going to seize your assets now and figure out how to make it "legal" later on. Even the Swiss - neutral during WW2 - abandoned over two centuries of neutrality and went along with the EU in this. The message these countries sent was clear: if you ever oppose us, rule of law will not protect you.

Integrape 2y ago

The States will never financially recover from this.

devnullbrain 2y ago

Two months? You elected the same guy 8 years ago. Fool me once, etc.