4 ms·

Lots of people still think this way about chickenpox, and I have no idea why. In the US, vaccination for it is prevalent for years now (in a rare win for preve

Lots of people still think this way about chickenpox, and I have no idea why. In the US, vaccination for it is prevalent for years now (in a rare win for preventative health there). Many other countries: "Chickenpox (and risk of shingles) will be good for you..."

croes 2y ago
Are you sure? It seems quite the other way around. Some other countries just lack the possibilities to vaccinate while the US could but people refuse in favor of „natural“ immunity. Hence two dead children because of measles.
- Smithalicious 2y ago
  Here in Europe, or at least in the Netherlands where I grew up, chickenpox isnnot vaccinated for, and of course the reason is not "lacking the possibilities". I don't have a stance on the matter, other than "I and everyone I know caught chickenpox as a kid and we turned out alright".
  - croes 2y ago
    In Germany it’s recommended by the Vaccination Commission
    - jessekv 2y ago
      https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6605725/figure/F0001/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6605725/figure/F000... Germany is one of the blue ones.
      - croes 2y ago
        I‘m astounded especially because of the long term risk of shingles
        stevenwoo 2y ago
        AFAIK, we in the USA are still recommended to get the shingles vaccination, which has two shots, after age 50, and it's only effective for 7-10 years.
  - em500 2y ago
    The Dutch health council advised against including chickenpox vaccination in the standard vaccination programme in 2020 for the European Netherlands (but pro vaccination for Dutch overseas territories in the Caribbean). The advise (in Dutch) can be found under "advies Vaccinatie tegen waterpokken" [1]. I don't have an opinion on whether the council properly weighted all the costs and benefits. I just want to include this reference make the point that the Dutch policy stance is not based on lack of means or on ignorance of our politicians or health authorities. The advice includes plenty of references to many international studies and experiences with chickenpox vaccination. [1] https://www.gezondheidsraad.nl/documenten/adviezen/2020/10/01/vaccinatie-tegen-waterpokken https://www.gezondheidsraad.nl/documenten/adviezen/2020/10/0...
JetSetWilly 2y ago
You have it the opposite way round. The UK (for example) never gave a chickenpox vaccine because it reasoned to do so increases the risk of shingles, and shingles is more serious than chickenpox. Also chickenpox is so mild that administering a national vaccination programme is of dubious benefit, the money can be more effectively spent elsewhere. The JCVI might have recently changed recommendation but whether it is worth the cost/benefit is another matter.
- lol768 2y ago
  The latest JCVI recommendations are here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/childhood-varicella-vaccination-programme-jcvi-advice-14-november-2023/jcvi-statement-on-a-childhood-varicella-chickenpox-vaccination-programme https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/childhood-varicel... The shingles vaccination programme (for older adults) has existed since 2013. The JCVI recommendation from 2023 took into account new evidence that had emerged since the original decision in 2009, using a new model to evaluate cost-effectiveness and better evaluate the impact on QALY from infection. The original 2009 reasoning's decision is available here: https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ukgwa/20130107105354/http://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/@dh/@ab/documents/digitalasset/dh_109874.pdf https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ukgwa/20130107105...
- lordnacho 2y ago
  That is surprising to me. Here's what I could glean: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/two-for-one-chickenpox-vaccine-lowers-shingles-risk-in-children/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/two-for-one-chick... For me it was a no-brainer. For a small amount of money, I avoid the kid being bedridden for potentially weeks, and the kid avoids scarring from the disease. Even though it isn't going to kill the kid, it's still awful to be ill. Shingles won't be a problem for a long time afterwards, and medicine will advance. There's already shingles vaccines. So it was an easy decision to spend about 100 pounds on vaccinating each kid.
  - secondcoming 2y ago
    Isn't scarring caused by scratching? I remember parents wanted kids to get chickenpox as early as possible so they could put mittens on them so they wouldn't scratch themselves.

croes 2y ago

Are you sure? It seems quite the other way around. Some other countries just lack the possibilities to vaccinate while the US could but people refuse in favor of „natural“ immunity. Hence two dead children because of measles.

Smithalicious 2y ago
Here in Europe, or at least in the Netherlands where I grew up, chickenpox isnnot vaccinated for, and of course the reason is not "lacking the possibilities". I don't have a stance on the matter, other than "I and everyone I know caught chickenpox as a kid and we turned out alright".
- croes 2y ago
  In Germany it’s recommended by the Vaccination Commission
  - jessekv 2y ago
    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6605725/figure/F0001/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6605725/figure/F000... Germany is one of the blue ones.
    - croes 2y ago
      I‘m astounded especially because of the long term risk of shingles
      - stevenwoo 2y ago
        AFAIK, we in the USA are still recommended to get the shingles vaccination, which has two shots, after age 50, and it's only effective for 7-10 years.
- em500 2y ago
  The Dutch health council advised against including chickenpox vaccination in the standard vaccination programme in 2020 for the European Netherlands (but pro vaccination for Dutch overseas territories in the Caribbean). The advise (in Dutch) can be found under "advies Vaccinatie tegen waterpokken" [1]. I don't have an opinion on whether the council properly weighted all the costs and benefits. I just want to include this reference make the point that the Dutch policy stance is not based on lack of means or on ignorance of our politicians or health authorities. The advice includes plenty of references to many international studies and experiences with chickenpox vaccination. [1] https://www.gezondheidsraad.nl/documenten/adviezen/2020/10/01/vaccinatie-tegen-waterpokken https://www.gezondheidsraad.nl/documenten/adviezen/2020/10/0...

JetSetWilly 2y ago

You have it the opposite way round. The UK (for example) never gave a chickenpox vaccine because it reasoned to do so increases the risk of shingles, and shingles is more serious than chickenpox. Also chickenpox is so mild that administering a national vaccination programme is of dubious benefit, the money can be more effectively spent elsewhere. The JCVI might have recently changed recommendation but whether it is worth the cost/benefit is another matter.

lol768 2y ago
The latest JCVI recommendations are here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/childhood-varicella-vaccination-programme-jcvi-advice-14-november-2023/jcvi-statement-on-a-childhood-varicella-chickenpox-vaccination-programme https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/childhood-varicel... The shingles vaccination programme (for older adults) has existed since 2013. The JCVI recommendation from 2023 took into account new evidence that had emerged since the original decision in 2009, using a new model to evaluate cost-effectiveness and better evaluate the impact on QALY from infection. The original 2009 reasoning's decision is available here: https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ukgwa/20130107105354/http://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/@dh/@ab/documents/digitalasset/dh_109874.pdf https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ukgwa/20130107105...
lordnacho 2y ago
That is surprising to me. Here's what I could glean: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/two-for-one-chickenpox-vaccine-lowers-shingles-risk-in-children/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/two-for-one-chick... For me it was a no-brainer. For a small amount of money, I avoid the kid being bedridden for potentially weeks, and the kid avoids scarring from the disease. Even though it isn't going to kill the kid, it's still awful to be ill. Shingles won't be a problem for a long time afterwards, and medicine will advance. There's already shingles vaccines. So it was an easy decision to spend about 100 pounds on vaccinating each kid.
- secondcoming 2y ago
  Isn't scarring caused by scratching? I remember parents wanted kids to get chickenpox as early as possible so they could put mittens on them so they wouldn't scratch themselves.