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The safety and needs of a prisoner are not the only concerns. The safety and needs of the victims and public are also a concern. Moreover, if there was a breach

by borski 2y ago

The safety and needs of a prisoner are not the only concerns. The safety and needs of the victims and public are also a concern. Moreover, if there was a breach of security (which is at least close to the definition of what happened), temporarily securing the prisoner in a separate location to assess what happened and how it happened doesn’t immediately strike me as unreasonable. I would prefer, of course, that it wasn’t solitary.

jancsika 2y ago
> The safety and needs of a prisoner are not the only concerns. The only ethical stance I've ever heard for torturing someone is the "ticking time bomb" scenario popularized during George W. Bush's administration. (I disagree with that ethical stance, but that's beside the point.) In your scenario the bomb isn't ticking. Nor is there even a bomb-- only a breach of security with an undefined relationship to safety and needs of people who aren't in any immediate danger. Read the Senate Report on Torture for an in-depth analysis of the problems with that ethical stance.
- borski 2y ago
  If, for example, someone convicted of sexual assault decides to give an interview without permission, and proceeds to reiterate the details of the crime, that would undoubtedly harm the victim of their crimes. That is what I meant by the safety and needs of a prisoner not being the only concerns. SBF didn't sexually assault anybody, but the rules exist for such reasons, and SBF breaking those rules surreptitiously doesn't make it okay. The first concern, I imagine, was "how the fuck did that happen?" which meant assessing the damage. Should he have been thrown in solitary for 24 hours? Probably not, but should he have been isolated from his room and other prisoners for 24 hours? Probably, while they assessed what had happened and how. If he had snuck contraband in (a smartphone), then that would have been, for example, a real safety issue, since smuggling in contraband doesn't end at cell phones, and the pathway doesn't change. Initially, it was not clear how it occurred. That's all I'm saying. I know the slippery slope argument, and I agree with it, and I have previously read the Senate Report on Torture, and do not disagree.
- IshKebab 2y ago
  I don't think one day in solitary quite counts as torture. Obviously longer term it is, but one day is hyperbolic.
  - bokoharambe 2y ago
    Prison alone is torture.

by borski 2y ago

jancsika 2y ago

> The safety and needs of a prisoner are not the only concerns. The only ethical stance I've ever heard for torturing someone is the "ticking time bomb" scenario popularized during George W. Bush's administration. (I disagree with that ethical stance, but that's beside the point.) In your scenario the bomb isn't ticking. Nor is there even a bomb-- only a breach of security with an undefined relationship to safety and needs of people who aren't in any immediate danger. Read the Senate Report on Torture for an in-depth analysis of the problems with that ethical stance.

borski 2y ago
If, for example, someone convicted of sexual assault decides to give an interview without permission, and proceeds to reiterate the details of the crime, that would undoubtedly harm the victim of their crimes. That is what I meant by the safety and needs of a prisoner not being the only concerns. SBF didn't sexually assault anybody, but the rules exist for such reasons, and SBF breaking those rules surreptitiously doesn't make it okay. The first concern, I imagine, was "how the fuck did that happen?" which meant assessing the damage. Should he have been thrown in solitary for 24 hours? Probably not, but should he have been isolated from his room and other prisoners for 24 hours? Probably, while they assessed what had happened and how. If he had snuck contraband in (a smartphone), then that would have been, for example, a real safety issue, since smuggling in contraband doesn't end at cell phones, and the pathway doesn't change. Initially, it was not clear how it occurred. That's all I'm saying. I know the slippery slope argument, and I agree with it, and I have previously read the Senate Report on Torture, and do not disagree.
IshKebab 2y ago
I don't think one day in solitary quite counts as torture. Obviously longer term it is, but one day is hyperbolic.
- bokoharambe 2y ago
  Prison alone is torture.