4 ms·

FDA issues early alert for Baxter's Spectrum infusion pump

39 points by iancmceachern 2y ago

BurnGpuBurn 2y ago
[flagged]
- dylan604 2y ago
  There should be a special place in hell for devs that do this. Trying to rank it in dev hell for ad tech/tracking devs and user hostile JS devs, and I think they are just two ballrooms on the same floor
  - sidewndr46 2y ago
    I wish I had been on the committee when this change the browser API was proposed. I would obviously gotten kicked out for asking "just what the hell do you think people are going to do with this?". But at least I'd be somewhat infamous for asking the question when seemingly no one else was willing to.
    - the_sleaze_ 2y ago
      I used it once for an SPA doing highly dynamic user surveys, users really wanted the back button to push them one question back, and depending on the path through the question graph back wasn't always "back".
      - wholinator2 2y ago
        That's somewhat understandable but i really think we should be able to tell the users they're wrong. Can always add an in-site button labeled appropriately but honestly i think we should've never made things so easy. Some level of abrasion upon using a computer is essential to force learning. The kids today don't know anything past the app user interface. They have no concept of what's going on at all. I'm ranting now aren't I. How old do i have to be to get my 'Old Man Yells At Cloud' card?
- kelnos 2y ago
  > Please don't complain about tangential annoyances—e.g. article or website formats, name collisions, or back-button breakage. They're too common to be interesting. (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)
  - BurnGpuBurn 2y ago
    They might be too common to be interesting, but if we can't call them out they will never stop. And the fact that people still do this ridicilous stuff is newsworthy of it's own don't you think?
- varikin 2y ago
  Equating a frustrating anti-pattern of websites with medical equipment failure is extremely disingenuous. An infusion pump failure can harm a person, and according to the article, has seriously injured at least on person. Hijacking the back button isn't going to physically harm someone.
  - BurnGpuBurn 2y ago
    Well excuse me for being extremely disingenuous then. But the no harm argument is arguable incorrect, I myself might get a heart attack some day because of a dark pattern given how infuriating those things can be.
pfisherman 2y ago
Recalls get issued with reasonable frequency. The crazy part is that clinics have no way of identifying exposures (patients) or inventory impacted by recalls because US hospitals do not capture unique device identifiers (UDIs) in electronic health records or their supply chain systems.
- TechDebtDevin 2y ago
  That seems crazy
  - franktankbank 2y ago
    US health care is 1 needle of sanity in a haystack of crazy.
  - pfisherman 2y ago
    It is. FDA requires manufactures to display UDIs in packaging (or devices themselves) in human and machine readable format. But hospital IT systems are not set up to capture this information and they have no compelling (i.e. financial) incentive to invest in the IT system upgrades and operational changes needed to capture this information. You would think better inventory management would be enough of a selling point, but apparently not. I am convinced that it will take government interventions - like CMS requiring UDIs on reimbursement forms - to get it done.
- iancmceachern 2y ago
  They do for implants
  - pfisherman 2y ago
    No they don’t. I helped lead a failed effort to implement UDI capture at a major academic research hospital. To date only Duke and Mercy health systems have implemented UDI capture in a limited capacity. The big problem is that implementation requires significant up front capital investment and operational changes; for nebulous / speculative ROI in terms of dollars. So organizational incentives are just not there. Ultimately this is the type of problem that will require government intervention to solve. And that intervention will require the creation of incentives for organizations to implement UDI capture - similar to how it took an act of congress (Obamacare) to incentivize healthcare systems to adopt electronic health care records and protocols for communicating / sharing health care information.
TheRealPomax 2y ago
How is this HN-related though? How did it even get on the front page?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- kelnos 2y ago
  > Please don't complain that a submission is inappropriate. If a story is spam or off-topic, flag it. (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)
- HeyLaughingBoy 2y ago
  A lot of us here work on medical devices. Besides that, it's just interesting to see how technology directly affects people.
- moate 2y ago
  Presumably someone thought it was something that 1- met the standards for submission and 2- they wanted to discuss. Dang has a post about submission standards if you're curious. Did you have a specific reason why it shouldn't be here? I've seen articles about everything from beluga whales to jelly beans posted, not everything needs to be about an emerging framework or IPO.
slowmovintarget 2y ago
The problem with the devices (missing screws) leads to uncontrolled fluid amounts in IV pumps... which is dangerous.
cytocync 2y ago
[dead]

39 points by iancmceachern 2y ago

BurnGpuBurn 2y ago

[flagged]

dylan604 2y ago
There should be a special place in hell for devs that do this. Trying to rank it in dev hell for ad tech/tracking devs and user hostile JS devs, and I think they are just two ballrooms on the same floor
- sidewndr46 2y ago
  I wish I had been on the committee when this change the browser API was proposed. I would obviously gotten kicked out for asking "just what the hell do you think people are going to do with this?". But at least I'd be somewhat infamous for asking the question when seemingly no one else was willing to.
  - the_sleaze_ 2y ago
    I used it once for an SPA doing highly dynamic user surveys, users really wanted the back button to push them one question back, and depending on the path through the question graph back wasn't always "back".
    - wholinator2 2y ago
      That's somewhat understandable but i really think we should be able to tell the users they're wrong. Can always add an in-site button labeled appropriately but honestly i think we should've never made things so easy. Some level of abrasion upon using a computer is essential to force learning. The kids today don't know anything past the app user interface. They have no concept of what's going on at all. I'm ranting now aren't I. How old do i have to be to get my 'Old Man Yells At Cloud' card?
kelnos 2y ago
> Please don't complain about tangential annoyances—e.g. article or website formats, name collisions, or back-button breakage. They're too common to be interesting. (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)
- BurnGpuBurn 2y ago
  They might be too common to be interesting, but if we can't call them out they will never stop. And the fact that people still do this ridicilous stuff is newsworthy of it's own don't you think?
varikin 2y ago
Equating a frustrating anti-pattern of websites with medical equipment failure is extremely disingenuous. An infusion pump failure can harm a person, and according to the article, has seriously injured at least on person. Hijacking the back button isn't going to physically harm someone.
- BurnGpuBurn 2y ago
  Well excuse me for being extremely disingenuous then. But the no harm argument is arguable incorrect, I myself might get a heart attack some day because of a dark pattern given how infuriating those things can be.

pfisherman 2y ago

Recalls get issued with reasonable frequency. The crazy part is that clinics have no way of identifying exposures (patients) or inventory impacted by recalls because US hospitals do not capture unique device identifiers (UDIs) in electronic health records or their supply chain systems.

TechDebtDevin 2y ago
That seems crazy
- franktankbank 2y ago
  US health care is 1 needle of sanity in a haystack of crazy.
- pfisherman 2y ago
  It is. FDA requires manufactures to display UDIs in packaging (or devices themselves) in human and machine readable format. But hospital IT systems are not set up to capture this information and they have no compelling (i.e. financial) incentive to invest in the IT system upgrades and operational changes needed to capture this information. You would think better inventory management would be enough of a selling point, but apparently not. I am convinced that it will take government interventions - like CMS requiring UDIs on reimbursement forms - to get it done.
iancmceachern 2y ago
They do for implants
- pfisherman 2y ago
  No they don’t. I helped lead a failed effort to implement UDI capture at a major academic research hospital. To date only Duke and Mercy health systems have implemented UDI capture in a limited capacity. The big problem is that implementation requires significant up front capital investment and operational changes; for nebulous / speculative ROI in terms of dollars. So organizational incentives are just not there. Ultimately this is the type of problem that will require government intervention to solve. And that intervention will require the creation of incentives for organizations to implement UDI capture - similar to how it took an act of congress (Obamacare) to incentivize healthcare systems to adopt electronic health care records and protocols for communicating / sharing health care information.

TheRealPomax 2y ago

How is this HN-related though? How did it even get on the front page?

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
kelnos 2y ago
> Please don't complain that a submission is inappropriate. If a story is spam or off-topic, flag it. (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)
HeyLaughingBoy 2y ago
A lot of us here work on medical devices. Besides that, it's just interesting to see how technology directly affects people.
moate 2y ago
Presumably someone thought it was something that 1- met the standards for submission and 2- they wanted to discuss. Dang has a post about submission standards if you're curious. Did you have a specific reason why it shouldn't be here? I've seen articles about everything from beluga whales to jelly beans posted, not everything needs to be about an emerging framework or IPO.

slowmovintarget 2y ago

The problem with the devices (missing screws) leads to uncontrolled fluid amounts in IV pumps... which is dangerous.

cytocync 2y ago

[dead]