4 ms·

is that not enough? It's also inexpensive and works very well on all platforms.

haswell 2y ago
Not OP, but UX also matters a lot. I’d strongly prefer an open source and selfhostable option, but each time I’ve evaluated Bitwarden in the past, it was a big enough downgrade from 1Password that I didn’t think switching was a good option. If the experience ever becomes as seamless, I’ll be switching.
- eknkc 2y ago
  This. 1p is polished and easy to use. Bitwarden is as functional as 1P but janky.
  - matwood 2y ago
    1P family sharing and 1P cli also work well. I check BW every so often but it always feels less polished UI wise. For all the complaints people had about 1P moving to electron, it’s UX is still the best out there.
    - TeMPOraL 2y ago
      > family sharing Why would someone make a feature like this? I'm confused why some companies (including Amazon and Steam) insist on family features. The mental model behind this is more prescriptive than descriptive - it doesn't match to how users and their families function; rather, it insists on some activities to a) exist in family, and b) be not allowed outside of family. Or simply: how many people have actual family listed in their Steam / Amazon "family sharing"?
      - quesera 2y ago
        I think "family" is just the humane, user-friendly, non-corporate word for "group" in this context.
        TeMPOraL 2y ago
        Yeah, but "group" is also a humane, user-friendly, non-corporate word for "group" and happens to not carry any confusing connotations.
        quesera 2y ago
        On the scale of humaneness, "family" will always score higher than "group". But yeah, it's a content and positioning call for the product and marketing teams to make.
      - aryonoco 2y ago
        I don’t have amazon or steam so don’t know how any of that works. But for a password manager, family sharing is extremely useful. Bitwarden doesn’t have families per se, it’s got “organisations”. You can setup unlimited number of organisations and users can get invited and join them. Which is very handy for example my wife and I can login and order our groceries from the supermarket using the same account. Or that we can both login and use our electricity company’s web portal which only allows one account per household. All without needing to send each other passwords and updated passwords back and forth.
        TeMPOraL 2y ago
        I have nothing against sharing per se. My issue is with the family nomenclature. In your case it might align perfectly, but for myself and most people I know, it's not the case. That is, the set of people to share a Netflix subscription with, share Steam library with, share Kindle library with, share passwords to various web services, including utility companies, are only partially overlapping, and do not align perfectly with the idea of "family" or "household".
        aryonoco 2y ago
        Ah ok gotcha. Your issue is with the ‘family’ nomenclature not the functionality, and I fully agree with you. For what it’s worth Bitwarden doesn’t use that term, they call it Organisation. Personally I feel like ‘Group’ is actually the better term.
        trw55 2y ago
        This seems pedantic. I am trying to wrap my head around why "family sharing" is an issue here. You want to share with someone, use family sharing I don't see what the issue is.
      - dahart 2y ago
        What do you mean about prescribing and insisting? I’m not sure I understand your questions about family sharing and the mental model. I use family sharing with actual family for my Steam account and all video streaming services. Am I weird? The reason is because streaming services allow sharing under a single paid account, and my wife & kids don’t want to pay for separate accounts, and don’t want to have to authenticate separately on shared devices (TVs, game consoles, iPads, etc). Steam family sharing works across different Steam accounts, and sharing a single account doesn’t work, so Steam isn’t particularly relevant to the discussion of family sharing of passwords. Steaming accounts, on the other hand, all assume they’re being used by a whole family, and the main reason is because of shared devices; the family TV itself logged in. So, they all offer profiles under a single account. Netflix clarifies that family sharing means the people in a single household, maybe others are similar. We use password family sharing as well. My wife and I share bank and credit card accounts. My wife needs my accounts sometimes to do certain things — you might be surprised how many banks do not offer joint accounts and still treat wives as second class citizens. We share the Netflix & Amazon accounts with the kids so they can use them. I pay for a 1Password family account and share it with my aging father who’s been losing passwords. These things are all pretty useful for me. I guess you’re making me wonder why someone wouldn’t make a family sharing feature, when it solves real problems and users are asking for it?
- bostik 2y ago
  > Not OP, but UX also matters a lot. That is particularly true for anything dealing with security. I evaluated both BitWarden and 1Password when we wanted to migrate away from LastPass. My recommendation was to eventually go with BW. Its open-source nature was a factor, but for a corporate use the UX factors were even more prominent. Over a course of a month, I ran into several subtle footguns with 1P. Search included only some of the fields. Password reset/rotation flow was easy to mess up (thanks to the confusing + inconsistent "copy field" functionality) and get into a situation where the generated password that was stored in the vault was different from the one that was set: in my tests there was 50/50 chance of accidentally regenerating the password before the vault storage step after submitting the new one for a remote service. There were a whole load of "features" that didn't make any sense. The UI for 1P was a real mess. The feeling I got from it was that their product had been captured by Product Managers[tm] desperate to justify their own existence by shipping ever more Features[tm] without considering the impact on the core functionality. BW's UI is by no means perfect, and their entry editing flow is far from ideal. But at least most of the actual usability snags in their browser extension have a common workaround: pop the BW overlay out from the browser, into a separate window. Their open-source nature and availability of independent implementations mean that there will be alternatives, should BW go down the same features-features-and-more-antifeatures hellhole in their race to eventually appease their VC backers. Less is more.
  - haswell 2y ago
    When did you do this 1Password evaluation? Sounds like our experience with it could not be more different. > The UI for 1P was a real mess. In what way? You described how you feel about the UI, but I’m curious about actual specifics. It’s entirely possible that I’m just too accustomed to it because I’ve been using it for many years, but what you’re describing is how I felt about Bitwarden. I can completely see choosing BW in a corporate setting for a host of other reasons. But for me personally, the priority is a tool that gets out of my way and just works. The tool that has done that is 1P. > Less is more. That really depends. If less means that the password manager doesn’t get used, then less is less.
n8m8 2y ago
Their comment made me laugh, agreed, open source is really is that big of a perk. IMO especially for something security-related (though 0day is always possible)
- notesinthefield 2y ago
  I think the assumption something is open source being a perk is naïve - in the end I still have to trust so many elements that actually bring me the platform that BW’s openness doesnt matter.
notesinthefield 2y ago
Why would I have asked if it were enough?

Not OP, but UX also matters a lot. I’d strongly prefer an open source and selfhostable option, but each time I’ve evaluated Bitwarden in the past, it was a big enough downgrade from 1Password that I didn’t think switching was a good option. If the experience ever becomes as seamless, I’ll be switching.

eknkc 2y ago
This. 1p is polished and easy to use. Bitwarden is as functional as 1P but janky.
- matwood 2y ago
  1P family sharing and 1P cli also work well. I check BW every so often but it always feels less polished UI wise. For all the complaints people had about 1P moving to electron, it’s UX is still the best out there.
  - TeMPOraL 2y ago
    > family sharing Why would someone make a feature like this? I'm confused why some companies (including Amazon and Steam) insist on family features. The mental model behind this is more prescriptive than descriptive - it doesn't match to how users and their families function; rather, it insists on some activities to a) exist in family, and b) be not allowed outside of family. Or simply: how many people have actual family listed in their Steam / Amazon "family sharing"?
    - quesera 2y ago
      I think "family" is just the humane, user-friendly, non-corporate word for "group" in this context.
      - TeMPOraL 2y ago
        Yeah, but "group" is also a humane, user-friendly, non-corporate word for "group" and happens to not carry any confusing connotations.
        quesera 2y ago
        On the scale of humaneness, "family" will always score higher than "group". But yeah, it's a content and positioning call for the product and marketing teams to make.
    - aryonoco 2y ago
      I don’t have amazon or steam so don’t know how any of that works. But for a password manager, family sharing is extremely useful. Bitwarden doesn’t have families per se, it’s got “organisations”. You can setup unlimited number of organisations and users can get invited and join them. Which is very handy for example my wife and I can login and order our groceries from the supermarket using the same account. Or that we can both login and use our electricity company’s web portal which only allows one account per household. All without needing to send each other passwords and updated passwords back and forth.
      - TeMPOraL 2y ago
        I have nothing against sharing per se. My issue is with the family nomenclature. In your case it might align perfectly, but for myself and most people I know, it's not the case. That is, the set of people to share a Netflix subscription with, share Steam library with, share Kindle library with, share passwords to various web services, including utility companies, are only partially overlapping, and do not align perfectly with the idea of "family" or "household".
        aryonoco 2y ago
        Ah ok gotcha. Your issue is with the ‘family’ nomenclature not the functionality, and I fully agree with you. For what it’s worth Bitwarden doesn’t use that term, they call it Organisation. Personally I feel like ‘Group’ is actually the better term.
        trw55 2y ago
        This seems pedantic. I am trying to wrap my head around why "family sharing" is an issue here. You want to share with someone, use family sharing I don't see what the issue is.
    - dahart 2y ago
      What do you mean about prescribing and insisting? I’m not sure I understand your questions about family sharing and the mental model. I use family sharing with actual family for my Steam account and all video streaming services. Am I weird? The reason is because streaming services allow sharing under a single paid account, and my wife & kids don’t want to pay for separate accounts, and don’t want to have to authenticate separately on shared devices (TVs, game consoles, iPads, etc). Steam family sharing works across different Steam accounts, and sharing a single account doesn’t work, so Steam isn’t particularly relevant to the discussion of family sharing of passwords. Steaming accounts, on the other hand, all assume they’re being used by a whole family, and the main reason is because of shared devices; the family TV itself logged in. So, they all offer profiles under a single account. Netflix clarifies that family sharing means the people in a single household, maybe others are similar. We use password family sharing as well. My wife and I share bank and credit card accounts. My wife needs my accounts sometimes to do certain things — you might be surprised how many banks do not offer joint accounts and still treat wives as second class citizens. We share the Netflix & Amazon accounts with the kids so they can use them. I pay for a 1Password family account and share it with my aging father who’s been losing passwords. These things are all pretty useful for me. I guess you’re making me wonder why someone wouldn’t make a family sharing feature, when it solves real problems and users are asking for it?
bostik 2y ago
> Not OP, but UX also matters a lot. That is particularly true for anything dealing with security. I evaluated both BitWarden and 1Password when we wanted to migrate away from LastPass. My recommendation was to eventually go with BW. Its open-source nature was a factor, but for a corporate use the UX factors were even more prominent. Over a course of a month, I ran into several subtle footguns with 1P. Search included only some of the fields. Password reset/rotation flow was easy to mess up (thanks to the confusing + inconsistent "copy field" functionality) and get into a situation where the generated password that was stored in the vault was different from the one that was set: in my tests there was 50/50 chance of accidentally regenerating the password before the vault storage step after submitting the new one for a remote service. There were a whole load of "features" that didn't make any sense. The UI for 1P was a real mess. The feeling I got from it was that their product had been captured by Product Managers[tm] desperate to justify their own existence by shipping ever more Features[tm] without considering the impact on the core functionality. BW's UI is by no means perfect, and their entry editing flow is far from ideal. But at least most of the actual usability snags in their browser extension have a common workaround: pop the BW overlay out from the browser, into a separate window. Their open-source nature and availability of independent implementations mean that there will be alternatives, should BW go down the same features-features-and-more-antifeatures hellhole in their race to eventually appease their VC backers. Less is more.
- haswell 2y ago
  When did you do this 1Password evaluation? Sounds like our experience with it could not be more different. > The UI for 1P was a real mess. In what way? You described how you feel about the UI, but I’m curious about actual specifics. It’s entirely possible that I’m just too accustomed to it because I’ve been using it for many years, but what you’re describing is how I felt about Bitwarden. I can completely see choosing BW in a corporate setting for a host of other reasons. But for me personally, the priority is a tool that gets out of my way and just works. The tool that has done that is 1P. > Less is more. That really depends. If less means that the password manager doesn’t get used, then less is less.

n8m8 2y ago

Their comment made me laugh, agreed, open source is really is that big of a perk. IMO especially for something security-related (though 0day is always possible)

notesinthefield 2y ago
I think the assumption something is open source being a perk is naïve - in the end I still have to trust so many elements that actually bring me the platform that BW’s openness doesnt matter.

notesinthefield 2y ago

Why would I have asked if it were enough?