5 ms·

Public spaces are most definitely not "Adults Only" by default. You're not allowed to have a big billboard with porn on it, you have to show ID to get into a b

Public spaces are most definitely not "Adults Only" by default. You're not allowed to have a big billboard with porn on it, you have to show ID to get into a bar, you have to show ID to buy a pack of cigarettes, and in many states the cigarettes have to be in an opaque cabinet. You can't walk around naked. You can't be drunk in public. Now admittedly many of these things are unevenly enforced, but society absolutely does a lot in the physical world to make it appropriate for children.

ty6853 2y ago
The children didn't seem worse off in the days where a 2nd grader could bike 5 miles to the grocery store to buy mom a pack of smokes and dad a six pack.
- ndriscoll 2y ago
  https://www.lung.org/research/trends-in-lung-disease/tobacco-trends-brief/overall-smoking-trends https://www.lung.org/research/trends-in-lung-disease/tobacco... > Long term, smoking rates have fallen 73% among adults, from 42.6% in 1965 to 11.6% in 2022. > Long term, smoking rates have fallen 86% among youth, from 36.4% in 1997 to 3.8% in 2021. I'd say that's better off, not just in childhood but with long term effects.
  - ty6853 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - butlike 2y ago
      Refined sugar and gambling are two of the hardest ones to quit.
  - darioush 2y ago
    And how can you attribute this decline to specific laws? Seems it could be a result of many things such as public education & cancer outcomes becoming obvious.
    - abenga 2y ago
      When people were told they could smoke from candy-flavored USB-charged devices they jumped back on the train. Education didn't do anything, and no facts are obvious in this new world.
      - LoganDark 2y ago
        It's because people in general tend to learn and retain simplified versions of things. They hear that tobacco in cigarettes causes cancer but that candy-colored USB-charged devices can come without tobacco and completely miss the fact that nicotine is also a terrible substance to get hooked on. Even amphetamines are better because at least you can stop those whenever you want and all that happens is a few days of being sleepy and then you're fine. Try to stop nicotine cold turkey and, well...
      - Zak 2y ago
        Do we have clear evidence for vaping causing harms of similar severity and frequency as smoking?
      - graemep 2y ago
        its not directly education, but education influenced fashion. smoking became a blue collar habit in the west, and then no longer cool globally.
        darioush 2y ago
        Copying other people's behavior to influence them to like us more is both so irrationally insane yet so evolutionarily encoded in us.
mjevans 2y ago
Nuanced difference: Everyone _has_ to traverse all of public to get anywhere, hence 'decency laws' so parents can take kids around without blindfolds. You're taking the metaphor a bit too literally.
- lolinder 2y ago
  > You're taking the metaphor a bit too literally. Or maybe the metaphor is flawed? GP says that public spaces are adult-only by default, the parent rightly points out this is nonsense: public spaces are Safe for Work (and for kids) by default, and you have to prove you're an adult to access the adult-only spaces. Which is exactly what laws like this are trying to do by analogy to the physical world. It's not OP that's interpreting the metaphor too literally, the public-spaces metaphor is literally the main justification for these laws and GP doesn't understand how public spaces work.
  - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
    There is an important difference in the metaphor. Physical spaces don't have a user-agent. Therefore the space itself has to exclude minors because there is nothing else to do it. The internet does have user agents, and for children the user agents are controlled by adults (and if the child has the cooperation of an adult, you already can't enforce age verification). So now you don't need anyone to prove their age in a way that has privacy implications and chilling effects because you can have the child's user agent notify the site that the user isn't an adult, rather than needing each adult having to prove who is. Which doesn't require any form of identification because it's just a flag the adult sets on the child's device. Therefore anything that does require identification is unnecessary and malicious.
    - lolinder 2y ago
      Right, this is fair. I think the metaphor was terrible, and this is a really good explanation for why.
  - rijoja 2y ago
    Leaving children unattended with random strangers is bad parenting this should be obvious to anyone.
sieabahlpark 2y ago
[dead]
darioush 2y ago
Just like to offer a counter-perspective that most billboards are basically soft porn.
- genewitch 2y ago
  Not in Central Louisiana. I can't remember the last tittilating billboard I saw.
Aeolun 2y ago
> You're not allowed to have a big billboard with porn on it Most adults would be put off by that as well, I’m not sure if this is indicative of public spaces. That said, I agree that public spaces cannot possibly be adult only by default, as children have to traverse them.
- LorenPechtel 2y ago
  But we have a very unrealistic view of what's harmful to children. Non-sexual nudity is not a threat, period. Playboy--yeah, because of some of the tobacco ads clearly aimed at teenagers. The nudity--harmless. I grew up in a household where no effort was made to hide adult materials. Oh, the horrors--that don't actually exist. There is exactly zero overlap between my father's kinks (I was the one that had to go through his stuff when he died, I know what they are) and my own. As for the billboard--there's sometimes been a prostitute ad on a billboard here. "Full" nudity with strategically placed text. Of course it pretends they are dancers but few people are actually mislead. (Despite a fair amount of misunderstanding prostitution is *not* legal in Las Vegas. It's banned by state law in the two most populous counties, local choice otherwise. However, there's pretty much a truce between the outcall escorts and the police--they don't do other wrongs, the cops don't try to catch them.)
drdo 2y ago
I know it's not the point but fun fact we've had big billboards advertising a specific OnlyFans account in a few cities in Portugal, with matching picture (not full nudity).

ty6853 2y ago

The children didn't seem worse off in the days where a 2nd grader could bike 5 miles to the grocery store to buy mom a pack of smokes and dad a six pack.

ndriscoll 2y ago
https://www.lung.org/research/trends-in-lung-disease/tobacco-trends-brief/overall-smoking-trends https://www.lung.org/research/trends-in-lung-disease/tobacco... > Long term, smoking rates have fallen 73% among adults, from 42.6% in 1965 to 11.6% in 2022. > Long term, smoking rates have fallen 86% among youth, from 36.4% in 1997 to 3.8% in 2021. I'd say that's better off, not just in childhood but with long term effects.
- ty6853 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - butlike 2y ago
    Refined sugar and gambling are two of the hardest ones to quit.
- darioush 2y ago
  And how can you attribute this decline to specific laws? Seems it could be a result of many things such as public education & cancer outcomes becoming obvious.
  - abenga 2y ago
    When people were told they could smoke from candy-flavored USB-charged devices they jumped back on the train. Education didn't do anything, and no facts are obvious in this new world.
    - LoganDark 2y ago
      It's because people in general tend to learn and retain simplified versions of things. They hear that tobacco in cigarettes causes cancer but that candy-colored USB-charged devices can come without tobacco and completely miss the fact that nicotine is also a terrible substance to get hooked on. Even amphetamines are better because at least you can stop those whenever you want and all that happens is a few days of being sleepy and then you're fine. Try to stop nicotine cold turkey and, well...
    - Zak 2y ago
      Do we have clear evidence for vaping causing harms of similar severity and frequency as smoking?
    - graemep 2y ago
      its not directly education, but education influenced fashion. smoking became a blue collar habit in the west, and then no longer cool globally.
      - darioush 2y ago
        Copying other people's behavior to influence them to like us more is both so irrationally insane yet so evolutionarily encoded in us.

mjevans 2y ago

Nuanced difference: Everyone _has_ to traverse all of public to get anywhere, hence 'decency laws' so parents can take kids around without blindfolds. You're taking the metaphor a bit too literally.

lolinder 2y ago
> You're taking the metaphor a bit too literally. Or maybe the metaphor is flawed? GP says that public spaces are adult-only by default, the parent rightly points out this is nonsense: public spaces are Safe for Work (and for kids) by default, and you have to prove you're an adult to access the adult-only spaces. Which is exactly what laws like this are trying to do by analogy to the physical world. It's not OP that's interpreting the metaphor too literally, the public-spaces metaphor is literally the main justification for these laws and GP doesn't understand how public spaces work.
- AnthonyMouse 2y ago
  There is an important difference in the metaphor. Physical spaces don't have a user-agent. Therefore the space itself has to exclude minors because there is nothing else to do it. The internet does have user agents, and for children the user agents are controlled by adults (and if the child has the cooperation of an adult, you already can't enforce age verification). So now you don't need anyone to prove their age in a way that has privacy implications and chilling effects because you can have the child's user agent notify the site that the user isn't an adult, rather than needing each adult having to prove who is. Which doesn't require any form of identification because it's just a flag the adult sets on the child's device. Therefore anything that does require identification is unnecessary and malicious.
  - lolinder 2y ago
    Right, this is fair. I think the metaphor was terrible, and this is a really good explanation for why.
- rijoja 2y ago
  Leaving children unattended with random strangers is bad parenting this should be obvious to anyone.

sieabahlpark 2y ago

[dead]

darioush 2y ago

Just like to offer a counter-perspective that most billboards are basically soft porn.

genewitch 2y ago
Not in Central Louisiana. I can't remember the last tittilating billboard I saw.

Aeolun 2y ago

> You're not allowed to have a big billboard with porn on it Most adults would be put off by that as well, I’m not sure if this is indicative of public spaces. That said, I agree that public spaces cannot possibly be adult only by default, as children have to traverse them.

LorenPechtel 2y ago
But we have a very unrealistic view of what's harmful to children. Non-sexual nudity is not a threat, period. Playboy--yeah, because of some of the tobacco ads clearly aimed at teenagers. The nudity--harmless. I grew up in a household where no effort was made to hide adult materials. Oh, the horrors--that don't actually exist. There is exactly zero overlap between my father's kinks (I was the one that had to go through his stuff when he died, I know what they are) and my own. As for the billboard--there's sometimes been a prostitute ad on a billboard here. "Full" nudity with strategically placed text. Of course it pretends they are dancers but few people are actually mislead. (Despite a fair amount of misunderstanding prostitution is *not* legal in Las Vegas. It's banned by state law in the two most populous counties, local choice otherwise. However, there's pretty much a truce between the outcall escorts and the police--they don't do other wrongs, the cops don't try to catch them.)

drdo 2y ago

I know it's not the point but fun fact we've had big billboards advertising a specific OnlyFans account in a few cities in Portugal, with matching picture (not full nudity).