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These people should be fired. I want a tech company where people are there to make good products first and get paid second. And the pay should be good. The life

These people should be fired. I want a tech company where people are there to make good products first and get paid second. And the pay should be good. The lifestyle comfortable. No grindset bullshit. But I am confident that if you only employ passionate people working their dream jobs you will excel.

escapecharacter 2y ago
Unfortunately whether someone is checked out is a laggy measure. Even good honest motivated people can become checked out without even being aware of it. The alternative is to lay off people as soon as they hit 1.0 (with a severance bonus on the scale of an acquisition). This would obviously be worse, as you can’t take advantage of their institutional knowledge.
- saturn8601 2y ago
  This motivated part of Musk's moves at Twitter(and now DOGE). You can't reliably evaluate which people are checked out and when you are against the clock, you have to take a hatchet and accept that you will break things that are in motion.
  - chronid 2y ago
    You can somewhat reliably evaluate what works and what does not, what brings you forward and what is slack you can cut. It takes time (6-12 months at least) of very engaged work of a very engaged team - which you can bring with you. You can go the hatchet way - I am strongly unconvinced it is indicative of anything resembling good management, mind - but most people and companies cannot rely on banks or investment firms loaning them 40 billion dollars and accepting passively a mark down of their mone~ to 1/4 of the value they loaned down the line. CEOs are ousted by investment firms for a far smaller drop in value all the time.
    - disgruntledphd2 2y ago
      The banks have mostly sold the loans at par now, fyi. I agree with everything you said, though.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    And seeing how many people they let go and then had to hire back in the government and seeing that Twitter is worth 80% less than we he bought it, that might not be the best strategy.
  - shigawire 2y ago
    The externalities of breaking stuff haphazardly can very well outweigh any efficiency gains.
  - escapecharacter 2y ago
    Ignoring the quagmire of praising/critiquing Musk/Twitter for a second… If you’re an exec who’s taken it upon themselves to evaluate, could use the hatchet, or you take some amount of time to figure out how things work. Whether this is okay depends on who is suffering the externalities. If it’s a private corporation, legally it’s the execs + employment law. If it’s a public service that measures toxin levels in water, uhhhhh.
scarface_74 2y ago
Why would those people be “fired” when the entire promotion process and promo docs emphasize “scope” and “impact”? No one works for any BigTech company because they think they are making the world a better place. They do it because a shit ton of money appears in their bank account every pay period and stock appears in their brokerage account every vesting period. I personally don’t have the shit tolerance to work in BigTech (again) at 50. But I suggest to all of my younger relatives who graduate in CS to “grind leetCode and work for a FAANG” and tell them how to play the politics to get ahead. As the Dilbert author said, “Passion is Bullshit”. I have never been able to trade passion for goods and services.
- bsimpson 2y ago
  > No one works for any BigTech company because they think they are making the world a better place. I'm sure there are plenty of people who work at big companies for precisely this reason (or at least, with that as _a_ reason among many). Yes, much of the prestige has worn off as the old guard retired and current leadership emphasizes chasing AI buzzwords and cutting costs. But still, big companies are one of the few places where an individual really can point out something they worked on in day-to-day life. (Pull out any Android phone and I can show you the parts that my work touched.)
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - int_19h 2y ago
    Can confirm that this is definitely the case. Working at BigTech company to "make the world a better place" can actually feel like it makes some sort of sense because - especially if you're on a team that ships a highly visible product - you have a lot of customers, so even small improvements have an outsized effect. And it takes a while for a young dev to register that the goals that the larger organization pursues are going to win out in the end anyway.
    - scarface_74 2y ago
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> want a tech company where people are there to make good products first and get paid second. And the pay should be good. The lifestyle comfortable. No grindset bullshit Congratulations, you’ve invented the HR department in corporate America.
- reverius42 2y ago
  > make good products first and get paid second. And the pay should be good. The better the pay, the more you will attract the people who are there for the pay first and making good products ... second or third or never. How do you combat that?
  - stavros 2y ago
    You interview them first.
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      You act as if every experienced interviewer doesn’t know how to play the game and act like they are “passionate”.
saturn8601 2y ago
You are trying to combine two repelling magnets together. Case in point: Tesla/SpaceX meets your first criteria: "I want a tech company where people are there to make good products first and get paid second." Google meets your second criteria: "And the pay should be good. The lifestyle comfortable. No grindset bullshit." Other than small time boutique software firms like Fog Creek Software or Panic Inc(and thats a BIG maybe) you are not going to get this part of your message: "But I am confident that if you only employ passionate people working their dream jobs you will excel." There are tradeoffs in life and each employee has to choose what is important to them(and each company CEO has to set standards on what is truly valued at the company).
- scarface_74 2y ago
  > Case in point: Tesla/SpaceX meets your first criteria: "I want a tech company where people are there to make good products first and get paid second Tesla has never been a good product. https://insideevs.com/news/731559/tesla-least-reliable-used-car-brands/ https://insideevs.com/news/731559/tesla-least-reliable-used-... https://www.carscoops.com/2024/11/tesla-model-3-comes-bottom-in-german-tuv-reliability-test-again/ https://www.carscoops.com/2024/11/tesla-model-3-comes-bottom... https://www.topspeed.com/tesla-reliability-and-repair-costs-the-true-story/ https://www.topspeed.com/tesla-reliability-and-repair-costs-... Not to mention the infotainment system is much worse than CarPlay/Android Auto compatible cars
  - bdangubic 2y ago
    Teslas are consistently rated high in customer satisfaction, but after several years of low ratings from top authorities in the industry, their reliability is undoubtedly in question. This is too funny to post alongside saying “Tesla has never been a good product.” Like “everyone that bought it loves it be car expert Joe from South Dakota ranks them very low.” Common sense also runs very much against this nonsense narrative - you just simply do not sell that many cars, at those prices especially, year after year after year, if the product is subpar. Don’t fall for this “experts” bullshit. The CEO is the biggest tool this Earth has ever seen but cars are awesome

escapecharacter 2y ago

Unfortunately whether someone is checked out is a laggy measure. Even good honest motivated people can become checked out without even being aware of it. The alternative is to lay off people as soon as they hit 1.0 (with a severance bonus on the scale of an acquisition). This would obviously be worse, as you can’t take advantage of their institutional knowledge.

saturn8601 2y ago
This motivated part of Musk's moves at Twitter(and now DOGE). You can't reliably evaluate which people are checked out and when you are against the clock, you have to take a hatchet and accept that you will break things that are in motion.
- chronid 2y ago
  You can somewhat reliably evaluate what works and what does not, what brings you forward and what is slack you can cut. It takes time (6-12 months at least) of very engaged work of a very engaged team - which you can bring with you. You can go the hatchet way - I am strongly unconvinced it is indicative of anything resembling good management, mind - but most people and companies cannot rely on banks or investment firms loaning them 40 billion dollars and accepting passively a mark down of their mone~ to 1/4 of the value they loaned down the line. CEOs are ousted by investment firms for a far smaller drop in value all the time.
  - disgruntledphd2 2y ago
    The banks have mostly sold the loans at par now, fyi. I agree with everything you said, though.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  And seeing how many people they let go and then had to hire back in the government and seeing that Twitter is worth 80% less than we he bought it, that might not be the best strategy.
- shigawire 2y ago
  The externalities of breaking stuff haphazardly can very well outweigh any efficiency gains.
- escapecharacter 2y ago
  Ignoring the quagmire of praising/critiquing Musk/Twitter for a second… If you’re an exec who’s taken it upon themselves to evaluate, could use the hatchet, or you take some amount of time to figure out how things work. Whether this is okay depends on who is suffering the externalities. If it’s a private corporation, legally it’s the execs + employment law. If it’s a public service that measures toxin levels in water, uhhhhh.

scarface_74 2y ago

Why would those people be “fired” when the entire promotion process and promo docs emphasize “scope” and “impact”? No one works for any BigTech company because they think they are making the world a better place. They do it because a shit ton of money appears in their bank account every pay period and stock appears in their brokerage account every vesting period. I personally don’t have the shit tolerance to work in BigTech (again) at 50. But I suggest to all of my younger relatives who graduate in CS to “grind leetCode and work for a FAANG” and tell them how to play the politics to get ahead. As the Dilbert author said, “Passion is Bullshit”. I have never been able to trade passion for goods and services.

bsimpson 2y ago
> No one works for any BigTech company because they think they are making the world a better place. I'm sure there are plenty of people who work at big companies for precisely this reason (or at least, with that as _a_ reason among many). Yes, much of the prestige has worn off as the old guard retired and current leadership emphasizes chasing AI buzzwords and cutting costs. But still, big companies are one of the few places where an individual really can point out something they worked on in day-to-day life. (Pull out any Android phone and I can show you the parts that my work touched.)
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- int_19h 2y ago
  Can confirm that this is definitely the case. Working at BigTech company to "make the world a better place" can actually feel like it makes some sort of sense because - especially if you're on a team that ships a highly visible product - you have a lot of customers, so even small improvements have an outsized effect. And it takes a while for a young dev to register that the goals that the larger organization pursues are going to win out in the end anyway.
  - scarface_74 2y ago

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> want a tech company where people are there to make good products first and get paid second. And the pay should be good. The lifestyle comfortable. No grindset bullshit Congratulations, you’ve invented the HR department in corporate America.

reverius42 2y ago
> make good products first and get paid second. And the pay should be good. The better the pay, the more you will attract the people who are there for the pay first and making good products ... second or third or never. How do you combat that?
- stavros 2y ago
  You interview them first.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    You act as if every experienced interviewer doesn’t know how to play the game and act like they are “passionate”.

saturn8601 2y ago

You are trying to combine two repelling magnets together. Case in point: Tesla/SpaceX meets your first criteria: "I want a tech company where people are there to make good products first and get paid second." Google meets your second criteria: "And the pay should be good. The lifestyle comfortable. No grindset bullshit." Other than small time boutique software firms like Fog Creek Software or Panic Inc(and thats a BIG maybe) you are not going to get this part of your message: "But I am confident that if you only employ passionate people working their dream jobs you will excel." There are tradeoffs in life and each employee has to choose what is important to them(and each company CEO has to set standards on what is truly valued at the company).

scarface_74 2y ago
> Case in point: Tesla/SpaceX meets your first criteria: "I want a tech company where people are there to make good products first and get paid second Tesla has never been a good product. https://insideevs.com/news/731559/tesla-least-reliable-used-car-brands/ https://insideevs.com/news/731559/tesla-least-reliable-used-... https://www.carscoops.com/2024/11/tesla-model-3-comes-bottom-in-german-tuv-reliability-test-again/ https://www.carscoops.com/2024/11/tesla-model-3-comes-bottom... https://www.topspeed.com/tesla-reliability-and-repair-costs-the-true-story/ https://www.topspeed.com/tesla-reliability-and-repair-costs-... Not to mention the infotainment system is much worse than CarPlay/Android Auto compatible cars
- bdangubic 2y ago
  Teslas are consistently rated high in customer satisfaction, but after several years of low ratings from top authorities in the industry, their reliability is undoubtedly in question. This is too funny to post alongside saying “Tesla has never been a good product.” Like “everyone that bought it loves it be car expert Joe from South Dakota ranks them very low.” Common sense also runs very much against this nonsense narrative - you just simply do not sell that many cars, at those prices especially, year after year after year, if the product is subpar. Don’t fall for this “experts” bullshit. The CEO is the biggest tool this Earth has ever seen but cars are awesome