3 ms·

> The world is run by the rich, for the rich. I sympathize but am extremely frustrated at this defeatist idea. Yes they run it, but only because people in gen

> The world is run by the rich, for the rich. I sympathize but am extremely frustrated at this defeatist idea. Yes they run it, but only because people in general fail to coordinate around some other way of doing things. It's coordination plain and "simple". The rich doesn't run the world. They tell people what to do and people run the world as they command because there seems to be no better alternative. Why have we stopped trying out better ways to coordinate? We somehow have come to believe that mass coordination outside of corporations can't be improved upon.

3np 2y ago
> Why have we stopped trying out better ways to coordinate? To a large extent because somehow "that serves no purpose", "any alternative is a scam" and "blockchain evil" propaganda have been very effective in an environment where greed has been distracting too many from the damn point. We need to relearn and establish new ways to run perpetual and huge coordination efforts outside of corporate systems and government without fear or greed as necessary driving forces. The first step is to start trying ans honestly explore options.
- worldsayshi 2y ago
  > greed has been distracting too many from the damn point I also suspect that another factor is ever increasing acceptance of the immutability of debt. When most people are stuck in debt they have to keep running in the treadmill. Imagine if there was a non-blockable way for everyone to vote on a universal debt cancellation event - "Should we all just from now on ignore any debt incurred before today? ¤ yes, ¤ no".
  - pixl97 2y ago
    >everyone to vote on a universal debt cancellation event Just look at the student loan forgiveness debacle. It seems our population would sooner vote in capital punishment for not paying debt.
    - ryandrake 2y ago
      It's also why the US never votes to fix health care. "I suffered a terrible system, therefore the next generations must, too." Crab bucket mentality.
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    A one-time debt reset would be a great experiment, but without also resetting who owns the businesses and who doesn't, the same people would eventually be back to the same levels of debt. You need to correct the derivative and the second derivative.
    - worldsayshi 2y ago
      > the same people would eventually be back to the same levels of debt Well there's always the option of periodic debt cancellation. Such ideas are not untested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_debt_relief https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_debt_relief
datadrivenangel 2y ago
The costs of better coordination -- defecting from the status quo -- varies from moderate to lethal. It's not free. There are a lot of people working on coordination though.
- worldsayshi 2y ago
  > There are a lot of people working on coordination though Where? Genuinely curious.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Where? Genuinely curious Thiel, for one.
    - worldsayshi 2y ago
      Thiel is the one trying to collapse the government and bring about techno feudal ancap where him and his cronies own everything in a butterfly revolution no?
psadauskas 2y ago
Because the people who can coordinate this are working 9-5 jobs, (or 2 or 3 minimum wage gigs), have families and/or kids, and don't have a whole lot of time or energy to organize when so much of it goes towards surviving. Or have a lot to lose by rocking the boat. Vs the rich people, who can set aside a million, or ten million, or whatever, and pay people to propagandize on their behalf. A million bucks a year can pay 10 people to work full time and go on cable news programs to be "interviewed", or write think pieces in newspapers, or spread misinformation on social media. And yeah, its defeatist. I don't know how we overcome this until people are fed up enough to prioritize it, and are willing to stick their necks out.
- worldsayshi 2y ago
  > don't have a whole lot of time or energy I get this but I'm not really talking about making sacrifices or having people who don't have time spending a lot of it. I'm just wondering why not even those that seem to have a lot of time and mental fortitude seem to discuss or be able to come up with alternative ideas that people pick up and can work with.

3np 2y ago

> Why have we stopped trying out better ways to coordinate? To a large extent because somehow "that serves no purpose", "any alternative is a scam" and "blockchain evil" propaganda have been very effective in an environment where greed has been distracting too many from the damn point. We need to relearn and establish new ways to run perpetual and huge coordination efforts outside of corporate systems and government without fear or greed as necessary driving forces. The first step is to start trying ans honestly explore options.

worldsayshi 2y ago
> greed has been distracting too many from the damn point I also suspect that another factor is ever increasing acceptance of the immutability of debt. When most people are stuck in debt they have to keep running in the treadmill. Imagine if there was a non-blockable way for everyone to vote on a universal debt cancellation event - "Should we all just from now on ignore any debt incurred before today? ¤ yes, ¤ no".
- pixl97 2y ago
  >everyone to vote on a universal debt cancellation event Just look at the student loan forgiveness debacle. It seems our population would sooner vote in capital punishment for not paying debt.
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    It's also why the US never votes to fix health care. "I suffered a terrible system, therefore the next generations must, too." Crab bucket mentality.
- ryandrake 2y ago
  A one-time debt reset would be a great experiment, but without also resetting who owns the businesses and who doesn't, the same people would eventually be back to the same levels of debt. You need to correct the derivative and the second derivative.
  - worldsayshi 2y ago
    > the same people would eventually be back to the same levels of debt Well there's always the option of periodic debt cancellation. Such ideas are not untested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_debt_relief https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_debt_relief

datadrivenangel 2y ago

The costs of better coordination -- defecting from the status quo -- varies from moderate to lethal. It's not free. There are a lot of people working on coordination though.

worldsayshi 2y ago
> There are a lot of people working on coordination though Where? Genuinely curious.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Where? Genuinely curious Thiel, for one.
  - worldsayshi 2y ago
    Thiel is the one trying to collapse the government and bring about techno feudal ancap where him and his cronies own everything in a butterfly revolution no?

psadauskas 2y ago

Because the people who can coordinate this are working 9-5 jobs, (or 2 or 3 minimum wage gigs), have families and/or kids, and don't have a whole lot of time or energy to organize when so much of it goes towards surviving. Or have a lot to lose by rocking the boat. Vs the rich people, who can set aside a million, or ten million, or whatever, and pay people to propagandize on their behalf. A million bucks a year can pay 10 people to work full time and go on cable news programs to be "interviewed", or write think pieces in newspapers, or spread misinformation on social media. And yeah, its defeatist. I don't know how we overcome this until people are fed up enough to prioritize it, and are willing to stick their necks out.

worldsayshi 2y ago
> don't have a whole lot of time or energy I get this but I'm not really talking about making sacrifices or having people who don't have time spending a lot of it. I'm just wondering why not even those that seem to have a lot of time and mental fortitude seem to discuss or be able to come up with alternative ideas that people pick up and can work with.