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> Why wouldn't they switch back to OpenGL on windows then ? Because for many cards, the opengl drivers are awful. If you are only implementing one of DirectX a

> Why wouldn't they switch back to OpenGL on windows then ? Because for many cards, the opengl drivers are awful. If you are only implementing one of DirectX and OpenGL on windows, there really is no contest. Of course, you could do both, but then you have another option to give users, and two very different codepaths to test.

dtf 14y ago
The abundance of awful OpenGL drivers is one of the reasons given for the ANGLE project (http://code.google.com/p/angleproject/ http://code.google.com/p/angleproject/). I've often wondered what those cards are though? NVIDIA drivers at least always seemed to have solid OpenGL support.
- Nicole060 14y ago
  AMD (ATI) GPU drivers are the worst when it comes to OpenGL. id software is one of the few big companies that makes OpenGL games and they always run much slower on ATI cards (Doom 3 during the first few years of its release) or run with nearly game breaking glitches (Rage, textures that pop up 3 seconds too late on the screen) John Carmack was seriously angry about ATI's drivers when the game "Rage" was released. http://kotaku.com/5847761/why-was-the-pc-launch-of-rage-such-a-cluster http://kotaku.com/5847761/why-was-the-pc-launch-of-rage-such... "The driver issues at launch have been a real cluster !@#$, [...] When launch day came around and the wrong driver got released, half of our PC customers got a product that basically didn't work. The fact that the working driver has incompatibilities with other titles doesn't help either. Issues with older / lower end /exotic setups are to be expected on a PC release, but we were not happy with the experience on what should be prime platforms." I unfortunately made the mistake to buy an AMD 5770 when I assembled my last desktop computer. This hateful GPU. If you even care one bit about either OpenGL or Linux, you are *ed with AMD. The open source drivers for linux are too slow for anything that matters and the closed source drivers made by ATi are too buggy to be used at all, they couldn't even run Gnome 3 without so many glitches, for so many months without improvements to the drivers, that I felt true despair. You want OpenGL or/and Linux, and you need performance ? Get a Nvidia. There's nothing but Nvidia that works well with either. If you don't need performance, then simply get something that has an integrated intel chip. I will never, ever think about buying anything from AMD again. Pure garbage. Their newer CPU line, the Bulldozer, is also garbage that runs slower than the older generation on many tasks.
  - nitrogen 14y ago
    I will never, ever think about buying anything from AMD again. Pure garbage. Their newer CPU line, the Bulldozer, is also garbage that runs slower than the older generation on many tasks. In fairness to AMD, AIUI that is by design, with the intention to increase clock speeds and core counts to compensate. However, that line of thinking was the downfall of the Pentium 4.
  - foamdino 14y ago
    As someone who bought AMD/ATi to 'support' the idea of a more open linux, I regret the decision daily. Very little works on linux and performance on windows (I dual boot for gaming), is not very good. I'll never buy ATi again after my experience with them.
    - Nicole060 14y ago
      Yeah even when your run windows AMD's still not worth the pain. OpenGL games like Rage are bugged on release for AMD owners and the catalyst drivers often introduce terrible bugs. I don't upgrade my drivers unless I the older ones have a known bug with a newer game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsD3y3vnsM8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsD3y3vnsM8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pSHOJKcFU8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pSHOJKcFU8 (the youtube comment is wrong, it didn't happen only with skyrim, I had the antialiasing bug with lots of games after I upgraded to that version of the catalyst at the time) This is what happens (and happened to me) when you trust AMD with their drivers. That one of their mid or high end card can work like shit with one of the best sellers on the PC platform says it all about how much AMD cares for their customers : they're giving us the finger. How could AMD stay in business with such subpar products is beyond me. I know they'll never regain my trust. That's just not possible. Too many problems on too many platforms.
      - yuhong 14y ago
        Because of the Windows world that generally don't care about OpenGL, of course.
  - iliis 14y ago
- pjmlp 14y ago
  > I've often wondered what those cards are though? Intel cards, famous for lying about which set of OpenGL extensions are really available in hardware. All the GPUs made in Taiwan and similar countries delivered with cheap desktop PCs (< 500 euro).

dtf 14y ago

The abundance of awful OpenGL drivers is one of the reasons given for the ANGLE project (http://code.google.com/p/angleproject/ http://code.google.com/p/angleproject/). I've often wondered what those cards are though? NVIDIA drivers at least always seemed to have solid OpenGL support.

Nicole060 14y ago
AMD (ATI) GPU drivers are the worst when it comes to OpenGL. id software is one of the few big companies that makes OpenGL games and they always run much slower on ATI cards (Doom 3 during the first few years of its release) or run with nearly game breaking glitches (Rage, textures that pop up 3 seconds too late on the screen) John Carmack was seriously angry about ATI's drivers when the game "Rage" was released. http://kotaku.com/5847761/why-was-the-pc-launch-of-rage-such-a-cluster http://kotaku.com/5847761/why-was-the-pc-launch-of-rage-such... "The driver issues at launch have been a real cluster !@#$, [...] When launch day came around and the wrong driver got released, half of our PC customers got a product that basically didn't work. The fact that the working driver has incompatibilities with other titles doesn't help either. Issues with older / lower end /exotic setups are to be expected on a PC release, but we were not happy with the experience on what should be prime platforms." I unfortunately made the mistake to buy an AMD 5770 when I assembled my last desktop computer. This hateful GPU. If you even care one bit about either OpenGL or Linux, you are *ed with AMD. The open source drivers for linux are too slow for anything that matters and the closed source drivers made by ATi are too buggy to be used at all, they couldn't even run Gnome 3 without so many glitches, for so many months without improvements to the drivers, that I felt true despair. You want OpenGL or/and Linux, and you need performance ? Get a Nvidia. There's nothing but Nvidia that works well with either. If you don't need performance, then simply get something that has an integrated intel chip. I will never, ever think about buying anything from AMD again. Pure garbage. Their newer CPU line, the Bulldozer, is also garbage that runs slower than the older generation on many tasks.
- nitrogen 14y ago
  I will never, ever think about buying anything from AMD again. Pure garbage. Their newer CPU line, the Bulldozer, is also garbage that runs slower than the older generation on many tasks. In fairness to AMD, AIUI that is by design, with the intention to increase clock speeds and core counts to compensate. However, that line of thinking was the downfall of the Pentium 4.
- foamdino 14y ago
  As someone who bought AMD/ATi to 'support' the idea of a more open linux, I regret the decision daily. Very little works on linux and performance on windows (I dual boot for gaming), is not very good. I'll never buy ATi again after my experience with them.
  - Nicole060 14y ago
    Yeah even when your run windows AMD's still not worth the pain. OpenGL games like Rage are bugged on release for AMD owners and the catalyst drivers often introduce terrible bugs. I don't upgrade my drivers unless I the older ones have a known bug with a newer game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsD3y3vnsM8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsD3y3vnsM8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pSHOJKcFU8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pSHOJKcFU8 (the youtube comment is wrong, it didn't happen only with skyrim, I had the antialiasing bug with lots of games after I upgraded to that version of the catalyst at the time) This is what happens (and happened to me) when you trust AMD with their drivers. That one of their mid or high end card can work like shit with one of the best sellers on the PC platform says it all about how much AMD cares for their customers : they're giving us the finger. How could AMD stay in business with such subpar products is beyond me. I know they'll never regain my trust. That's just not possible. Too many problems on too many platforms.
    - yuhong 14y ago
      Because of the Windows world that generally don't care about OpenGL, of course.
- iliis 14y ago
pjmlp 14y ago
> I've often wondered what those cards are though? Intel cards, famous for lying about which set of OpenGL extensions are really available in hardware. All the GPUs made in Taiwan and similar countries delivered with cheap desktop PCs (< 500 euro).