4 ms·

This article appear to be a bit childish. The whole issue is that the President of the Ukraine choose to argue in an event that was just ceremonial to an agree

This article appear to be a bit childish. The whole issue is that the President of the Ukraine choose to argue in an event that was just ceremonial to an agreement that he agreed to. It was NOT supposed to be a discussion or negotiations. The POTUS and vice president were pissed because the Ukraine president tired to put them in a difficult situation when the media was involved, particularly when he has came in the guise of already having agreed to sign the agreement. That is literally what the vice president said he said the Ukraine president was being "deeply disrespectful", and know what, I agree. Not an American by the way.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
johntitorjr 2y ago
In my viewing of it, Zelensky was very respectful in the face of extreme, and unwarranted, condescension. The biggest disagreement was started by Zelensky politely correcting Trump on a fact. Trump and Vance escalated from there. >POTUS and vice president were pissed I don't care if they were pissed, they need to act like fucking statesmen! I'm allowed to be a little uncivil here because I'm not the fucking POTUS. Let's hold our nation's best and brightest to a high standard. They're supposed to be figures that we aspire to emulate.
- ty6853 2y ago
  I hope defending his ego was worth it. It feels a bit like defending your ego against a bully with a 3 year old in tow. Even if you are right, there's no need to expose your dependents to the rage of a psychopath you need something from. This spat is going to cost Ukraine -- it already has.
- Jimmc414 2y ago
  Respectfully, did you watch the entire 50-minute exchange? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pxbGjvcdyY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pxbGjvcdyY
  - johntitorjr 2y ago
    Respectfully, yes.
- sras-me 2y ago
  >The biggest disagreement was started by Zelensky politely correcting Trump on a fact. Which fact was this? That diplomacy will not work? Then why did he choose to come to sign the deal? Don't you think it to be dishonest and disrespectable to have an agreement, and when the other party believes it and provides them an audience, do a U turn and start arguing about stuff in public? I am not saying that they shouldn't argue. But that should have been before making the agreement and coming to the Oval office. >I don't care if they were pissed, they need to act like fucking statesmen! Ha! I think a statesman is supposed to have some amount of maturity and wisdom. And if a person have those things in an average quantity, they will know NOT to utter things that wouldn't advance their cause. And they will know what those things are. What this president have shown here is the utter lack of both, because those words spoken out of emotion, not only did not advance their cause, but have put them in a much worse position.
  - watwut 2y ago
    That Russia does not keep agreements and did not kept agreements in the past. Likencomon, this is not opinion difference, but fact. Likewise you spread lies about how war started and how, President have to respond. Correcting and responding in public is normal in politics, business ... except in Russia, North Korea and China communist party. And these were NOT relitigations, he came to sign. Just a facts about world
    - sras-me 2y ago
      >That Russia does not keep agreements and did not kept agreements in the past. Yea, so why did this president bother to come to the oval office for if he is so convinced that negotiations will not work? >Correcting and responding in public is normal in politics, business Sure, but there is a time and place to do that. Even a budding politician will know that. This president didn't know for some reason.
      - torified 2y ago
        It's interesting that you recognize that the oval office is where you go to make an agreement with Russia.
Smeevy 2y ago
Speaking of being childish, that whole exchange reminded of being bullied in grade school. Zelenskiy handled it much better than I would have. JD Vance and Trump torpedoed that meeting and even invited Russian media to it. There's a lot of context that you're leaving out of this. As an American, I'm loathe to give this administration the benefit of the doubt.
- blooalien 2y ago
  > Speaking of being childish, that whole exchange reminded of being bullied in grade school. Zelenskiy handled it much better than I would have. Oh ya, for sure. Where and when I grew up (in the North-Western USA a good forty years back) the natural reaction to a bully gettin' all up in your face was to haul off and knock 'em the hell out, regardless of how important or untouchable they thought they were... Pretty sure I'd be lounging in a federal prison or Guantanamo right now if I'd have been Zelenskyy in that room that day. He's got far more self-control than I would have had.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
torified 2y ago
He hadn't agreed to anything. This was obviously a Trump ambush for "good TV". Yes sir, I'm very sorry sir I didn't wear a nice suit when my people are being murdered. Oops, I mean de-nazified sir. Just tell me where I will sign to give up our natural resources for zero security guarantees. The absolute weakest third-rate crybully with no conscience or morals. An empty vessel. A disgrace.
kelipso 2y ago
Yep, Zelensky started an argument with Vance about diplomacy, referring to him informally as JD even (this was disrespectful), and that's when it started breaking down. Makes me wonder how he became a successful politician, he completely misread the room.
- lm28469 2y ago
  > it started breaking down "it"? you mean when baby JD and Trump had a tantrum on live tv ? "MOOOOOOOOM Zelensky called me JD =(((((( and he doesn't even have a suit =(((" Are these two supposed to be the leaders of the #1 power in the world ?
  - kelipso 2y ago
    You can frame it however you want but Zelensky was the one who was looking for support. If you don't follow protocol, the you get what happened, which. is complete loss of support until you come around
    - g-b-r 2y ago
      He was looking for support, and what he got was an offer to pillage his country. He would have been his country's disgrace if he just signed that "deal" as it stood, and Trump would have boasted about it for years, of how stupid Zelensky had been, and how he stole 500 billions in return for nothing. You can see from the beginning of the press conference that something wasn't right, Zelensky was probably expecting a discussion rather than the direct signing that Trump began talking about. Zelensky, if he didn't want things to break down, for sure exaggerated in how he behaved, he wasn't able to contain his distress. But just signing that agreement, without trying anything, would have been foolish, and things are likely to end better for Ukraine now. I'm bewildered that no attempt was made to get a minerals agreement with Europe, by the way; if Ukraine really has to give up some of its resources, it would be a lot wiser to give them to Europe, you can't place any whatsoever trust in the US right now. A deal with Europe could let them get much more involved with the war, by bolstering the public support for it; and yes, Europe has a lot less military resources than the US, but at least you can rely on its word.
watwut 2y ago
All the Zelensky did was very respectfully respond to a lie while not even calling it a lie - acting likenitnwas a disagreement. That Trum and Vance got so hysterical is on them.
- sras-me 2y ago
  Which lie?
rixed 2y ago
Also not an American, and naturally more appealed by an Obama than a Trump. I don't want to contribute any fuel to an online "political discussion", but yet I think it might be useful for some to hear that it's never been more visible to me how much the "left" also has its own issues with alternate reality. How people reacted to this interview was another symptom of that.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

johntitorjr 2y ago

In my viewing of it, Zelensky was very respectful in the face of extreme, and unwarranted, condescension. The biggest disagreement was started by Zelensky politely correcting Trump on a fact. Trump and Vance escalated from there. >POTUS and vice president were pissed I don't care if they were pissed, they need to act like fucking statesmen! I'm allowed to be a little uncivil here because I'm not the fucking POTUS. Let's hold our nation's best and brightest to a high standard. They're supposed to be figures that we aspire to emulate.

ty6853 2y ago
I hope defending his ego was worth it. It feels a bit like defending your ego against a bully with a 3 year old in tow. Even if you are right, there's no need to expose your dependents to the rage of a psychopath you need something from. This spat is going to cost Ukraine -- it already has.
Jimmc414 2y ago
Respectfully, did you watch the entire 50-minute exchange? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pxbGjvcdyY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pxbGjvcdyY
- johntitorjr 2y ago
  Respectfully, yes.
sras-me 2y ago
>The biggest disagreement was started by Zelensky politely correcting Trump on a fact. Which fact was this? That diplomacy will not work? Then why did he choose to come to sign the deal? Don't you think it to be dishonest and disrespectable to have an agreement, and when the other party believes it and provides them an audience, do a U turn and start arguing about stuff in public? I am not saying that they shouldn't argue. But that should have been before making the agreement and coming to the Oval office. >I don't care if they were pissed, they need to act like fucking statesmen! Ha! I think a statesman is supposed to have some amount of maturity and wisdom. And if a person have those things in an average quantity, they will know NOT to utter things that wouldn't advance their cause. And they will know what those things are. What this president have shown here is the utter lack of both, because those words spoken out of emotion, not only did not advance their cause, but have put them in a much worse position.
- watwut 2y ago
  That Russia does not keep agreements and did not kept agreements in the past. Likencomon, this is not opinion difference, but fact. Likewise you spread lies about how war started and how, President have to respond. Correcting and responding in public is normal in politics, business ... except in Russia, North Korea and China communist party. And these were NOT relitigations, he came to sign. Just a facts about world
  - sras-me 2y ago
    >That Russia does not keep agreements and did not kept agreements in the past. Yea, so why did this president bother to come to the oval office for if he is so convinced that negotiations will not work? >Correcting and responding in public is normal in politics, business Sure, but there is a time and place to do that. Even a budding politician will know that. This president didn't know for some reason.
    - torified 2y ago
      It's interesting that you recognize that the oval office is where you go to make an agreement with Russia.

Smeevy 2y ago

Speaking of being childish, that whole exchange reminded of being bullied in grade school. Zelenskiy handled it much better than I would have. JD Vance and Trump torpedoed that meeting and even invited Russian media to it. There's a lot of context that you're leaving out of this. As an American, I'm loathe to give this administration the benefit of the doubt.

blooalien 2y ago
> Speaking of being childish, that whole exchange reminded of being bullied in grade school. Zelenskiy handled it much better than I would have. Oh ya, for sure. Where and when I grew up (in the North-Western USA a good forty years back) the natural reaction to a bully gettin' all up in your face was to haul off and knock 'em the hell out, regardless of how important or untouchable they thought they were... Pretty sure I'd be lounging in a federal prison or Guantanamo right now if I'd have been Zelenskyy in that room that day. He's got far more self-control than I would have had.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

torified 2y ago

He hadn't agreed to anything. This was obviously a Trump ambush for "good TV". Yes sir, I'm very sorry sir I didn't wear a nice suit when my people are being murdered. Oops, I mean de-nazified sir. Just tell me where I will sign to give up our natural resources for zero security guarantees. The absolute weakest third-rate crybully with no conscience or morals. An empty vessel. A disgrace.

kelipso 2y ago

Yep, Zelensky started an argument with Vance about diplomacy, referring to him informally as JD even (this was disrespectful), and that's when it started breaking down. Makes me wonder how he became a successful politician, he completely misread the room.

lm28469 2y ago
> it started breaking down "it"? you mean when baby JD and Trump had a tantrum on live tv ? "MOOOOOOOOM Zelensky called me JD =(((((( and he doesn't even have a suit =(((" Are these two supposed to be the leaders of the #1 power in the world ?
- kelipso 2y ago
  You can frame it however you want but Zelensky was the one who was looking for support. If you don't follow protocol, the you get what happened, which. is complete loss of support until you come around
  - g-b-r 2y ago
    He was looking for support, and what he got was an offer to pillage his country. He would have been his country's disgrace if he just signed that "deal" as it stood, and Trump would have boasted about it for years, of how stupid Zelensky had been, and how he stole 500 billions in return for nothing. You can see from the beginning of the press conference that something wasn't right, Zelensky was probably expecting a discussion rather than the direct signing that Trump began talking about. Zelensky, if he didn't want things to break down, for sure exaggerated in how he behaved, he wasn't able to contain his distress. But just signing that agreement, without trying anything, would have been foolish, and things are likely to end better for Ukraine now. I'm bewildered that no attempt was made to get a minerals agreement with Europe, by the way; if Ukraine really has to give up some of its resources, it would be a lot wiser to give them to Europe, you can't place any whatsoever trust in the US right now. A deal with Europe could let them get much more involved with the war, by bolstering the public support for it; and yes, Europe has a lot less military resources than the US, but at least you can rely on its word.

watwut 2y ago

All the Zelensky did was very respectfully respond to a lie while not even calling it a lie - acting likenitnwas a disagreement. That Trum and Vance got so hysterical is on them.

sras-me 2y ago
Which lie?

rixed 2y ago

Also not an American, and naturally more appealed by an Obama than a Trump. I don't want to contribute any fuel to an online "political discussion", but yet I think it might be useful for some to hear that it's never been more visible to me how much the "left" also has its own issues with alternate reality. How people reacted to this interview was another symptom of that.