6 ms·
It's too expensive for an affordable EV in half the world I am sure. The wealthier half of the world will never let Chinese auto makers in. China wants to do th
by mattmaroon 2y ago
It's too expensive for an affordable EV in half the world I am sure. The wealthier half of the world will never let Chinese auto makers in. China wants to do the same thing they've done with other manufacturing, use government subsidies, borderline slave labor, and artifically low currency to eat the market and kill everyone else's manufacturing capacity until they have the market entirely.
There's no way we let that happen to cars. China's average auto worker pay is $4.20 an hour. America's is 6x that. What you call fleecing customers we call paying workers a living wage.
We'd rather pay $25k for a cheap EV and have a thriving auto industry than pay $10k and have none. We'd happily choose paying more for cars over Latin America-style wealth inequality, though lately it seems as if we're going to manage both at the same time.
- litbear2022 2y agoDoes a thriving auto industry mean that its industrial workers can't afford eggs?
- decimalenough 2y agoYour figures are way out of date. The average Chinese auto worker now earns 21900 CNY/month, or about $36000/year. Even the low end is ~$15k. https://www.salaryexplorer.com/average-salary-wage-comparison-china-automotive-c44f10 https://www.salaryexplorer.com/average-salary-wage-compariso... Also, Chinese manufacturers will do the same as Japanese and Korean manufacturers before them: work around tariffs by building assembly plants in the US and Europe.
- dyauspitr 2y agoThose numbers seem like the average for an auto plant manager. Seems like most of the rank and file make around $11-15,000/yr.
- ryuno_k 2y ago[dead]
- Ancapistani 2y ago> Also, Chinese manufacturers will do the same as Japanese and Korean manufacturers before them: work around tariffs by building assembly plants in the US and Europe. That's literally the stated purpose of Trump's tariffs, though. It's not about hurting the Chinese. That's a bonus in some cases, sure, but the stated purpose is to encourage US economic growth in the industrial sector. If BYD starts building factories in the US to hire American workers and sell to American consumers, Trump would be bringing it up every time he saw a microphone.
- BenFranklin100 2y agoSays you. Poorer people in the United Stares would LOVE to have the option for a 10K car. It would really help their standard of living. I’m happy for you that you can afford to plop $25K down for a car.
- JojoFatsani 2y agoThey buy used.
- walrus01 2y agoI am very doubtful that one could manufacture a $10k (USD) car, have some tiny amount of profit margin on it, and still meet federal dual airbag, crash test safety standards. The extremely affordable cars sold in India for example would never meet US/Canadian road standards. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Motor_Vehicle_Safety_Standards https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Motor_Vehicle_Safety_S...
- BenFranklin100 2y agoThat’s a different conversation. The OP was arguing 2.5X the price solely to support union wages.
- Geezus_42 2y agoYou don't think people deserve a livable wage?
- BenFranklin100 2y ago$36K/yr is a livable wage in China.
- devilbunny 2y agoDefine "livable". A suburban detached home is far more expensive than a single-room-occupancy hotel room. And yet people lived in the latter for a large portion of US history, often with roommates. Some still do. It would be great if everyone could be wealthy enough to buy all their necessities and never worry about money, but that's a pipe dream.
- AlotOfReading 2y agoAutoworker salaries have very little effect on the price of cars. The final assembly labor costs are a single digit percentage of the sale price. The corporate workers (myself included) are about the same again, despite being a much smaller percentage of the workforce. The majority of costs are just the price of raw materials and manufacturing anything, whether in the US or abroad. What Chinese OEMs are doing isn't anything secret, it's just optimizing the other things to hit those price targets. Cutting out dealerships, better value engineering, lower executive/corporate salaries and benefits, cheaper electronics, limited features, vertical integration, and most importantly being willing to sell lower margin vehicles.
- sandworm101 2y agoAnd much reduced dividend payments. It is the difference between prioritizing market share over profits. Where an American company sees profits as an end goal, a Chinese manufacturer sees profits as a tool to enable expansion and development. One is working for shareholders, the other to advance national goals.
- nickff 2y agoMany American companies have reinvested their revenue into R&D; notable large examples include Google and Amazon. I rode a Waymo today!
- Mengkudulangsat 2y agoEvery single expense in your P&L is ultimately salaries. If it's not salaries in your P&L, then it's salaries in your supplier's P&L, or salaries your supplier's supplier's P&L.
- AlotOfReading 2y agoOnce you get more than a couple layers down in the supply chain, it's the same workers being paid the same wages for both American and foreign OEMs. The "labor price" of the same grade steel isn't vastly different for BYD and GM.
- SoftTalker 2y agoI would never pay $20k for a car. No matter who made it.
- sashank_1509 2y agoI have never paid less than $20k for a new car. Is this a US thing? Does Europe have much cheaper cars? It’s around $25k for sedan, and > $30k for SUV’s in US. And the most popular vehicles in US are pickup trucks that are > $50k
- simgt 2y agoEurope has smaller cars, up until recently you'd see way more very small 3-doors hatchbacks than SUVs, including in rural areas. These would cost around 10-15k€ new, bellow 10k€ with a few thousands kms on the counter.
- dagw 2y agoI have never paid less than $20k for a new car. I have never bought a new car.
- Fruitmaniac 2y ago"We"? Do you think the average American would pay more so workers can earn a living wage? Which America do you live in?
- simgt 2y agoI'd rather pay for a transition out of car-centricity instead of subsidising a dying industry that lobbied against every single move forward in the past few decades. Against air quality, against electric transition, for fossil fuel, against cycling infrastructure, against the safety of other road users. Right now they build only SUVs, mostly hybrids, when we actually need electric Twingos. VW and Stellantis need to go bankrupt and their technical workers need help to transition to being part of industries that will strive in a low-carbon economy: public transports, bicycles, two-wheels EVs, etc. [0] As for the management of these companies, they can all bloody starve, frankly. [0] https://ilnousfautunplan.fr/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Industrie-auto-VF-synthese-1.pdf https://ilnousfautunplan.fr/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Indus..., Claude's summary in English: https://claude.ai/share/695d7c05-25e5-4295-aa09-2bdc8717f8ca https://claude.ai/share/695d7c05-25e5-4295-aa09-2bdc8717f8ca
- dalyons 2y agoGive “we” people the choice to buy a cheap car and see what they would rather choose to do.
- mattmaroon 2y agoThey’ll buy the cheap cars then complain 20 years later that the politicians shipped the jobs to China, of course. It’s a tragedy of the commons. All humans are hypocrites. We want manufacturing here, both for jobs and National security/economic resilience. But we also have our own budgets.
- tim333 2y ago>The wealthier half of the world will never let Chinese auto makers in Australia and the UK have modest barriers to entry - especially in Australia a large part of the market is Chinese. In the EU they are allowing Chinese imports because otherwise the Chinese would restrict the sale of German cars in China. So they are coming in though still a small percentage of the market in the EU/UK.