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I don't think your historical analysis is very correct. What you think of as car-centric suburban-centric culture didn't really arise until after World War II.

I don't think your historical analysis is very correct. What you think of as car-centric suburban-centric culture didn't really arise until after World War II. It's really a relatively new thing, even considering how young the United States is. Obesity rates track historically with car-centric culture, should we just accept that is who we are, or can we work on cultural and policy changes that alleviate that problem? Other countries like the Netherlands went through the same car-centric design phase and realized it was too expensive and bad for the country so they reverted. We can and should keep cars, but our reliance on them for our very existence is quite fragile and unnecessary. Why does the average American have to spend $300 - $800/month or more in direct costs (insurance, gasoline, tires, loan payments, etc.) plus indirect costs (taxes for infrastructure) in order to go to the grocery store to buy a tomato or take their children to a playground? > If you want to do things like improve the environment, you can either scream and stamp your feet about it or you can meet people where they are and devise solutions that work in a car-centric culture. Instead of "screaming and stamping my feet" - isn't that what Road Rage is? I prefer to just work with organizations and political leaders to devise and implement solutions that reduce our need for car-centric culture and improve our economic resilience. That means fewer surface parking lots which are economic outflows, more bike lanes, slower speed limits, and better roadway design that incorporates segmented bike lanes, bus lanes, and more.

kolanos 2y ago
> Other countries like the Netherlands went through the same car-centric design phase and realized it was too expensive and bad for the country so they reverted. We can and should keep cars, but our reliance on them for our very existence is quite fragile and unnecessary. The Netherlands is roughly the size of Maryland. If The Netherlands was a U.S. state, it would be 42nd in terms of land area.
- pseudalopex 2y ago
  > The Netherlands is roughly the size of Maryland. How is this relevant in your mind? Do you imagine most Americans crossing entire states in their daily commute? Do you imagine people and goods do not cross European borders?
  - kolanos 2y ago
    It is considerably easier for a country that would be equivalent to one of the smallest U.S. states to abandon their dependence on cars than it is a country 237 times larger. Furthermore, the further west you go in theU.S. the more spread out things get until you reach the west coast. To the east of where I live there is a highway that is 287 miles long and is almost devoid of any services whatsoever, no civilization to speak of, not even a gas station. You can Google it, it is known as the "Loneliest Road in America". Not sure how less dependence on cars handles situations like that. Guess my overall point is until you drive across the U.S., it is difficult to fully understand the scale of the problem, let alone the solution.
    - rstuart4133 2y ago
      > It is considerably easier for a country that would be equivalent to one of the smallest U.S. states to abandon their dependence on cars than it is a country 237 times larger. I'm not sure it is. Have you visited the Netherlands? You don't walk or ride a push bike between cities there, any more than you do in the USA. Bicycles are the predominant form of transport because of how they design their suburbs. A car in suburban Holland isn't going to move any faster than a bicycle, and there nowhere to park. This is a deliberate design choice. The population density of Utrecht (a major city in the Netherlands) is 1000 people / sq km. The population density of Annapolis (the capital of Marylands) is over 2000 people / sq km. If density is the reason Marylands should be less car centric than Holland. > To the east of where I live there is a highway that is 287 miles long and is almost devoid of any services whatsoever, no civilization to speak of, not even a gas station. You can Google it, it is known as the "Loneliest Road in America". Doesn't the word "lonely" give you a hint on why this is irrelevant? You aren't going to ride a push bike to pick up fuel for your tractor in the Netherlands either. It's the USA's sprawling suburbs that weld you to your car's, not your cities or your rural expanses. It's true that's hard to change now. But there is no reason it had to be that way. Your suburbs could have been as compact as those in the Netherlands. The Netherlands made a conscious choice not to do it that way (they built free ways, decided they didn't like them, and turned them into canals [0]). I'm not sure how the USA arrived at their current arrangement but it wasn't because you "had to". [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/14/utrecht-restores-historic-canal-made-into-motorway-in-1970s https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/14/utrecht-restor...
jryle70 2y ago
> Other countries like the Netherlands went through the same car-centric design phase and realized it was too expensive and bad for the country so they reverted. Where did you get the idea that they reverted? Car ownership in Netherlands has continued to rise despite widespread biking culture. https://english.kimnet.nl/publications/publications/2022/02/22/the-widespread-car-ownership-in-the-netherlands https://english.kimnet.nl/publications/publications/2022/02/... https://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2019/08/the-car-free-myth-netherlands-is-great.html https://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2019/08/the-car-free-m...
- CHB0403085482 2y ago
  Compare & contrast ~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uqbsueNvag https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uqbsueNvag Having cars doesn't mean less bicycles ~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HdqTZs3vjU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HdqTZs3vjU

kolanos 2y ago

> Other countries like the Netherlands went through the same car-centric design phase and realized it was too expensive and bad for the country so they reverted. We can and should keep cars, but our reliance on them for our very existence is quite fragile and unnecessary. The Netherlands is roughly the size of Maryland. If The Netherlands was a U.S. state, it would be 42nd in terms of land area.

pseudalopex 2y ago
> The Netherlands is roughly the size of Maryland. How is this relevant in your mind? Do you imagine most Americans crossing entire states in their daily commute? Do you imagine people and goods do not cross European borders?
- kolanos 2y ago
  It is considerably easier for a country that would be equivalent to one of the smallest U.S. states to abandon their dependence on cars than it is a country 237 times larger. Furthermore, the further west you go in theU.S. the more spread out things get until you reach the west coast. To the east of where I live there is a highway that is 287 miles long and is almost devoid of any services whatsoever, no civilization to speak of, not even a gas station. You can Google it, it is known as the "Loneliest Road in America". Not sure how less dependence on cars handles situations like that. Guess my overall point is until you drive across the U.S., it is difficult to fully understand the scale of the problem, let alone the solution.
  - rstuart4133 2y ago
    > It is considerably easier for a country that would be equivalent to one of the smallest U.S. states to abandon their dependence on cars than it is a country 237 times larger. I'm not sure it is. Have you visited the Netherlands? You don't walk or ride a push bike between cities there, any more than you do in the USA. Bicycles are the predominant form of transport because of how they design their suburbs. A car in suburban Holland isn't going to move any faster than a bicycle, and there nowhere to park. This is a deliberate design choice. The population density of Utrecht (a major city in the Netherlands) is 1000 people / sq km. The population density of Annapolis (the capital of Marylands) is over 2000 people / sq km. If density is the reason Marylands should be less car centric than Holland. > To the east of where I live there is a highway that is 287 miles long and is almost devoid of any services whatsoever, no civilization to speak of, not even a gas station. You can Google it, it is known as the "Loneliest Road in America". Doesn't the word "lonely" give you a hint on why this is irrelevant? You aren't going to ride a push bike to pick up fuel for your tractor in the Netherlands either. It's the USA's sprawling suburbs that weld you to your car's, not your cities or your rural expanses. It's true that's hard to change now. But there is no reason it had to be that way. Your suburbs could have been as compact as those in the Netherlands. The Netherlands made a conscious choice not to do it that way (they built free ways, decided they didn't like them, and turned them into canals [0]). I'm not sure how the USA arrived at their current arrangement but it wasn't because you "had to". [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/14/utrecht-restores-historic-canal-made-into-motorway-in-1970s https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/14/utrecht-restor...

jryle70 2y ago

> Other countries like the Netherlands went through the same car-centric design phase and realized it was too expensive and bad for the country so they reverted. Where did you get the idea that they reverted? Car ownership in Netherlands has continued to rise despite widespread biking culture. https://english.kimnet.nl/publications/publications/2022/02/22/the-widespread-car-ownership-in-the-netherlands https://english.kimnet.nl/publications/publications/2022/02/... https://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2019/08/the-car-free-myth-netherlands-is-great.html https://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2019/08/the-car-free-m...

CHB0403085482 2y ago
Compare & contrast ~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uqbsueNvag https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uqbsueNvag Having cars doesn't mean less bicycles ~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HdqTZs3vjU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HdqTZs3vjU