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When would Apple silicons made natively support for OSes such as Linux? Apple seemlingly reluctant to release detailed technical reference manual for M-series S

When would Apple silicons made natively support for OSes such as Linux? Apple seemlingly reluctant to release detailed technical reference manual for M-series SoCs, which makes running Linux natively on Apple silicon challenging.

bigyabai 2y ago
Probably never. We don't have official Linux support for the iPhone or iPad, I would't hold out hope for Apple to change their tune.
- dylan604 2y ago
  That makes sense to me though. If you don’t run iOS, you don’t have App Store and that means a loss of revenue.
  - bigyabai 2y ago
    Right. Same goes for MacOS and all of it's convenient software services. Apple might stand to sell more units with a more friendlier stance towards Linux, but unless it sells more Apple One subscriptions or increases hardware margins on the Mac, I doubt Cook would consider it. If you sit around expecting selflessness from Apple you will waste an enormous amount of time, trust me.
  - AndroTux 2y ago
    If you don't run macOS, you don't have Apple iCloud Drive, Music, Fitness, Arcade, TV+ and News and that means a loss of revenue.
    - dylan604 2y ago
      As I replied in else where here, I do not run any Apple Services on my Mac hardware. I do on my iDevices though, but that's a different topic. Again, I could be the edge case
      - bigyabai 2y ago
        > I do not run any Apple Services on my Mac hardware Not even OCSP?
        dylan604 2y ago
        I have no idea what that is, so ??? But if you're being pedantic, I meant Apple SaaS requiring monthly payments or any other form of using something from Apple where I give them money outside the purchase of their hardware. If you're talking background services as part of macOS, then you're being intentionally obtuse to the point and you know it
  - jobs_throwaway 2y ago
    You lose out on revenue from people who require OS freedom though
    - orangecat 2y ago
      All seven of them. I kid, I have a lot of sympathy for that position, but as a practical matter running Linux VMs on an M4 works great, you even get GPU acceleration.
dylan604 2y ago
That’s what’s weird to me too. It’s not like they would lose sales of macOS as it is given away with the hardware. So if someone wants to buy Apple hardware to run Linux, it does not have a negative affect to AAPL
- bigfishrunning 2y ago
  Except the linux users won't be buying Apple software, from the app store or elsewhere. They won't subscribe to iCloud.
  - dylan604 2y ago
    I have Mac hardware and and have spent $0 through the Mac App Store. I do not use iCloud on it either. I do on iDevices though. I must be an edge case though.
    - c0deR3D 2y ago
      Same here.
    - xp84 2y ago
      All of us on HN are basically edge cases. The main target market of Macs is super dependent on Apple service subscriptions. Maybe that's why they ship with insultingly-small SSDs by default, so that as people's photo libraries, Desktop and Documents folders fill up, Apple can "fix your problem" for you by selling you the iCloud/Apple One plan to offload most of the stuff to only live in iCloud. Either they spend the $400 up front to get 2 notches up on the SSD upgrade, to match what a reasonable device would come with, or they spend that $400 $10 a month for the 40 month likely lifetime of the computer. Apple wins either way.
      - seec 2y ago
        Of course this is the reason. And this is why Apple has become so bad for the tech enthusiasts, no matter how good the OS/software can be, you have to pay a tax that is way too big because you already have the competence that should allow you to bypass it. It's like learning about growing vegetables in your garden but then having to pay the seeds for it much more because you actually know how to produce value with them. The philosophy at Apple has changed from premium tools for professional to luxury device for normies that makes them pay for their incompetence.
cpfleming 2y ago
https://asahilinux.org/ https://asahilinux.org/
WillAdams 2y ago
Is it not an option to run Darwin? What would Linux offer that that would not?
- internetter 2y ago
  Darwin is a terrible server operating system. Even getting a process to run at server boot reliably is a nightmare.
- kbolino 2y ago
  I don't think Darwin has been directly distributed in bootable binary format for many years now. And, as far as I know, it has never been made available in that format for Apple silicon.

bigyabai 2y ago

Probably never. We don't have official Linux support for the iPhone or iPad, I would't hold out hope for Apple to change their tune.

dylan604 2y ago
That makes sense to me though. If you don’t run iOS, you don’t have App Store and that means a loss of revenue.
- bigyabai 2y ago
  Right. Same goes for MacOS and all of it's convenient software services. Apple might stand to sell more units with a more friendlier stance towards Linux, but unless it sells more Apple One subscriptions or increases hardware margins on the Mac, I doubt Cook would consider it. If you sit around expecting selflessness from Apple you will waste an enormous amount of time, trust me.
- AndroTux 2y ago
  If you don't run macOS, you don't have Apple iCloud Drive, Music, Fitness, Arcade, TV+ and News and that means a loss of revenue.
  - dylan604 2y ago
    As I replied in else where here, I do not run any Apple Services on my Mac hardware. I do on my iDevices though, but that's a different topic. Again, I could be the edge case
    - bigyabai 2y ago
      > I do not run any Apple Services on my Mac hardware Not even OCSP?
      - dylan604 2y ago
        I have no idea what that is, so ??? But if you're being pedantic, I meant Apple SaaS requiring monthly payments or any other form of using something from Apple where I give them money outside the purchase of their hardware. If you're talking background services as part of macOS, then you're being intentionally obtuse to the point and you know it
- jobs_throwaway 2y ago
  You lose out on revenue from people who require OS freedom though
  - orangecat 2y ago
    All seven of them. I kid, I have a lot of sympathy for that position, but as a practical matter running Linux VMs on an M4 works great, you even get GPU acceleration.

dylan604 2y ago

That’s what’s weird to me too. It’s not like they would lose sales of macOS as it is given away with the hardware. So if someone wants to buy Apple hardware to run Linux, it does not have a negative affect to AAPL

bigfishrunning 2y ago
Except the linux users won't be buying Apple software, from the app store or elsewhere. They won't subscribe to iCloud.
- dylan604 2y ago
  I have Mac hardware and and have spent $0 through the Mac App Store. I do not use iCloud on it either. I do on iDevices though. I must be an edge case though.
  - c0deR3D 2y ago
    Same here.
  - xp84 2y ago
    All of us on HN are basically edge cases. The main target market of Macs is super dependent on Apple service subscriptions. Maybe that's why they ship with insultingly-small SSDs by default, so that as people's photo libraries, Desktop and Documents folders fill up, Apple can "fix your problem" for you by selling you the iCloud/Apple One plan to offload most of the stuff to only live in iCloud. Either they spend the $400 up front to get 2 notches up on the SSD upgrade, to match what a reasonable device would come with, or they spend that $400 $10 a month for the 40 month likely lifetime of the computer. Apple wins either way.
    - seec 2y ago
      Of course this is the reason. And this is why Apple has become so bad for the tech enthusiasts, no matter how good the OS/software can be, you have to pay a tax that is way too big because you already have the competence that should allow you to bypass it. It's like learning about growing vegetables in your garden but then having to pay the seeds for it much more because you actually know how to produce value with them. The philosophy at Apple has changed from premium tools for professional to luxury device for normies that makes them pay for their incompetence.

cpfleming 2y ago

https://asahilinux.org/ https://asahilinux.org/

WillAdams 2y ago

Is it not an option to run Darwin? What would Linux offer that that would not?

internetter 2y ago
Darwin is a terrible server operating system. Even getting a process to run at server boot reliably is a nightmare.
kbolino 2y ago
I don't think Darwin has been directly distributed in bootable binary format for many years now. And, as far as I know, it has never been made available in that format for Apple silicon.