4 ms·

Require a coin-operated 120V outlet with gfci and accessible way to reset the breaker for every two parking spots, everywhere. Many benefits: 1. Everywhere you

by coryrc 2y ago

Require a coin-operated 120V outlet with gfci and accessible way to reset the breaker for every two parking spots, everywhere. Many benefits: 1. Everywhere you go, you know there'll be somewhere to charge overnight. 2. It's the cheapest per installed spot, by far, allowing way more locations. 3. Renters can safely by an electric car and have home charging. 4. Coin-op 120V are far more robust than cables with valuable copper. 5. It de-incentivizes excessive parking.

aaronbrethorst 2y ago
What's a 'coin'?
- 1-6 2y ago
  I think the concept revolves around a small IoT chip that connects to an online payment system. It could trigger a relay to enable/disable the outlet.
- jmb99 2y ago
  If you’re not being facetious, a unit of currency, minted out of metals of varying preciousness throughout the ages in the shape of a circle, usually imprinted with the monarch or head of state on one side and a symbol on the other. If you’re being facetious, you’re probably aware that “coin-op” refers to any simply-operated payment terminal, as you’d find in a do-it-yourself car wash or parking meter (that doesn’t rely on some stupid phone app). In the past, you inserted the aforementioned coins into a slot, which it counted and provided you with some amount of time of use based on the amount you insert (coin op = coin operated). Nowadays, while there are still coin-op terminals (even in the western world!) they’re being replaced more and more by a pin-pad for processing credit- or debit-card transactions. These are much preferable to having to use a website or an app, make an account, verify your account, add you personal information, add your vehicle and plate information, add your credit card information, etc. for each different network you’re trying to use, be it parking, car washing, or in this case, car charging. In the past (or present, for the majority of the population), you could drive up to a gas station, pay with some form of currency or card, and receive fuel. The parent was suggestion that maybe, people don’t want to have to deal with more complexity than that while charging their vehicles, especially when travelling to different cities/counties/countries, which are the most likely times they would need to use not-at-home charging (and also the most likely times they’d encounter a new network, and have to go through the rigamarole of new app/website, account, details, etc). By just putting a coin-op (or if you insist on pedantic precision, pin-pad-op) receptacle, someone can pull up, plug in, pay, and be on their way in 30 seconds or less. Why reinvent the wheel and do anything else, which would take more effort in the best case scenario? If you insist on some godforsaken phone app, make that an option, but I imagine you’ll find most people won’t use it unless forced to.
  - stavros 2y ago
    I, too, was confused by the "coin operated are more robust than cables". The two seem orthogonal? Would you not still have cables?
    - Dylan16807 2y ago
      > "coin operated are more robust than cables" You simplified what they said to the wrong word. It's an outlet that is more robust than a cable. The system still has a cable, but a car cable faces less risk and a cut doesn't affect future users.
      - stavros 2y ago
        But cables were never mentioned until that sentence. It was all about coin-operated, and then cables somehow pop up.
        Dylan16807 2y ago
        The first sentence explicitly says 'outlet', which means not a cable even though the post doesn't use the word 'cable' until later. When you say "all about coin-op" you are still doing an incorrect simplification of "coin-operated 120V outlet". I know they forgot to repeat the word "outlet" on point 4, but even then they didn't just say coin-op, they said coin-op 120V. It's referring back to the first sentence, and 120V itself has implications of not being one of those beefy EV cables (and the only 120V cable alternative to a grossly underutilized EV cable is like a C13, and a dangling C13 that plugs into your car is a pretty silly interpretation).
        stavros 2y ago
        Ahh, I didn't realize "outlet" referred to just the socket, thanks. In that case, isn't the GP describing pretty much a level 2 AC charger? Those don't come with cables (at least here).
- pastage 2y ago
  "coin operated" like a vending machine, with what ever payment processing they usually use.
- blitzar 2y ago
  You attach a 'meme' to it which turns it into a 'rug' that you can 'pull'
notpushkin 2y ago
This. Maybe then upgrade to 240V and some standard-issue EVSEs. And no need to invent new ways to charge people – paid parking is a solved problem. Just set out a section for EVs (and EVs only).
- coryrc 2y ago
  EVSEs are more fragile, more prone to vandalism, so more costly to keep running. 240V could use the same wires and double available power, but existing portable chargers never draw more than 16A from 120V, so people can't screw it up.
stahtops 2y ago
L1 charging isn't really appropriate anywhere except at home or something like an airport parking lot where cars may be plugged in for a significant amount of time.. like 24h+. It's very slow.
- coryrc 2y ago
  It's 7 mph of charging. The average car is driving 60 minutes per day, and if there are chargers everywhere that's 161 miles per day of charge if it's plugged in when not driven. That covers everything the existing system doesn't already.
  - loeg 2y ago
    The 7mph claim is inflated. The rare EV gets more than 5 mi/kWh in any situation, especially highway driving, and your L1 charging is getting you roughly 1 kWh/hr. > The average car is driving 60 minutes per day This is a sleight of hand. Non-average situations arise all the time. Your proposal is ridiculously burdensome and not especially helpful.
    - stavros 2y ago
      Owning an EV, I can confirm your numbers. I'm in a 240V country, but level 1 is still pretty slow. It's great for the home, but I'd want at least 3-phase AC charging when I'm out.
      - loeg 2y ago
        Yeah, FWIW I also have an EV, get ~2.2 mi/kWh highway and ~3 around town, and L1 charging on 120V gets me, you know, 1.0-1.1 kW.
    - ac29 2y ago
      >your L1 charging is getting you roughly 1 kWh/hr 12 and 16A L1 chargers are common which is 1.44 and 1.92kW respectively at 120V. Its not 100% efficient but they definitely deliver more than 1kW to the battery.

by coryrc 2y ago

aaronbrethorst 2y ago

What's a 'coin'?

1-6 2y ago
I think the concept revolves around a small IoT chip that connects to an online payment system. It could trigger a relay to enable/disable the outlet.
jmb99 2y ago
If you’re not being facetious, a unit of currency, minted out of metals of varying preciousness throughout the ages in the shape of a circle, usually imprinted with the monarch or head of state on one side and a symbol on the other. If you’re being facetious, you’re probably aware that “coin-op” refers to any simply-operated payment terminal, as you’d find in a do-it-yourself car wash or parking meter (that doesn’t rely on some stupid phone app). In the past, you inserted the aforementioned coins into a slot, which it counted and provided you with some amount of time of use based on the amount you insert (coin op = coin operated). Nowadays, while there are still coin-op terminals (even in the western world!) they’re being replaced more and more by a pin-pad for processing credit- or debit-card transactions. These are much preferable to having to use a website or an app, make an account, verify your account, add you personal information, add your vehicle and plate information, add your credit card information, etc. for each different network you’re trying to use, be it parking, car washing, or in this case, car charging. In the past (or present, for the majority of the population), you could drive up to a gas station, pay with some form of currency or card, and receive fuel. The parent was suggestion that maybe, people don’t want to have to deal with more complexity than that while charging their vehicles, especially when travelling to different cities/counties/countries, which are the most likely times they would need to use not-at-home charging (and also the most likely times they’d encounter a new network, and have to go through the rigamarole of new app/website, account, details, etc). By just putting a coin-op (or if you insist on pedantic precision, pin-pad-op) receptacle, someone can pull up, plug in, pay, and be on their way in 30 seconds or less. Why reinvent the wheel and do anything else, which would take more effort in the best case scenario? If you insist on some godforsaken phone app, make that an option, but I imagine you’ll find most people won’t use it unless forced to.
- stavros 2y ago
  I, too, was confused by the "coin operated are more robust than cables". The two seem orthogonal? Would you not still have cables?
  - Dylan16807 2y ago
    > "coin operated are more robust than cables" You simplified what they said to the wrong word. It's an outlet that is more robust than a cable. The system still has a cable, but a car cable faces less risk and a cut doesn't affect future users.
    - stavros 2y ago
      But cables were never mentioned until that sentence. It was all about coin-operated, and then cables somehow pop up.
      - Dylan16807 2y ago
        The first sentence explicitly says 'outlet', which means not a cable even though the post doesn't use the word 'cable' until later. When you say "all about coin-op" you are still doing an incorrect simplification of "coin-operated 120V outlet". I know they forgot to repeat the word "outlet" on point 4, but even then they didn't just say coin-op, they said coin-op 120V. It's referring back to the first sentence, and 120V itself has implications of not being one of those beefy EV cables (and the only 120V cable alternative to a grossly underutilized EV cable is like a C13, and a dangling C13 that plugs into your car is a pretty silly interpretation).
        stavros 2y ago
        Ahh, I didn't realize "outlet" referred to just the socket, thanks. In that case, isn't the GP describing pretty much a level 2 AC charger? Those don't come with cables (at least here).
pastage 2y ago
"coin operated" like a vending machine, with what ever payment processing they usually use.
blitzar 2y ago
You attach a 'meme' to it which turns it into a 'rug' that you can 'pull'

notpushkin 2y ago

This. Maybe then upgrade to 240V and some standard-issue EVSEs. And no need to invent new ways to charge people – paid parking is a solved problem. Just set out a section for EVs (and EVs only).

coryrc 2y ago
EVSEs are more fragile, more prone to vandalism, so more costly to keep running. 240V could use the same wires and double available power, but existing portable chargers never draw more than 16A from 120V, so people can't screw it up.

stahtops 2y ago

L1 charging isn't really appropriate anywhere except at home or something like an airport parking lot where cars may be plugged in for a significant amount of time.. like 24h+. It's very slow.

coryrc 2y ago
It's 7 mph of charging. The average car is driving 60 minutes per day, and if there are chargers everywhere that's 161 miles per day of charge if it's plugged in when not driven. That covers everything the existing system doesn't already.
- loeg 2y ago
  The 7mph claim is inflated. The rare EV gets more than 5 mi/kWh in any situation, especially highway driving, and your L1 charging is getting you roughly 1 kWh/hr. > The average car is driving 60 minutes per day This is a sleight of hand. Non-average situations arise all the time. Your proposal is ridiculously burdensome and not especially helpful.
  - stavros 2y ago
    Owning an EV, I can confirm your numbers. I'm in a 240V country, but level 1 is still pretty slow. It's great for the home, but I'd want at least 3-phase AC charging when I'm out.
    - loeg 2y ago
      Yeah, FWIW I also have an EV, get ~2.2 mi/kWh highway and ~3 around town, and L1 charging on 120V gets me, you know, 1.0-1.1 kW.
  - ac29 2y ago
    >your L1 charging is getting you roughly 1 kWh/hr 12 and 16A L1 chargers are common which is 1.44 and 1.92kW respectively at 120V. Its not 100% efficient but they definitely deliver more than 1kW to the battery.